The NPO's Retort

[Karpathos]

The NPO's puppet Delegate has just ejected the longest-serving Delegate of Lazarus, a true member of that community for years,

Only longest serving up to the point the game took record of the time served

She was also an obstructionist waste of space. She did nothing but take up space. That space has now been cleared for real natives of Lazarus.

[Kalibarr]

An interesting read to be sure.

They are now doing exactly what was discussed in March and this demonstrates that everyone who worried that their recent "anti-imperialism" was just building up justification for couping Lazarus were correct.

How on earth is ejecting three or four people from a region a coup? Last I checked, those required some kind of change in regime or government neither of which have occurred.

[PrussianEmpire]

I wonder how the UDL will react, considering that Feux is their PR Chief.

How many coups is this that the UDL has been either purposely or accidentally involved in? Durk's coup of TNP (well, that was proto-UDL as the Eastern Islands of Dharma), endorsing NK in Osiris last December, Solm's constant flirtation with couping leading up to Milograd's coup of TSP, and now this. They are more reliable coup support than The Black Hawks.

Get over yourself. You participated in most, if not all of those events. Also, let the record note that a former UDLer led the 30 minute Coup in Osiris.

[The North Polish Union]

Only longest serving up to the point the game took record of the time served

She was also an onstructionist waste of space. She did nothing but take up space. That space has now been cleared for real natives of Lazarus.

Is there not enough space in a GCR? Interesting.

[A mean old man]

Only longest serving up to the point the game took record of the time served

Your point is correct, though it does not change the fact that Griffin is a significant former Delegate as well as a highly distinguished and long-serving member of Lazarus for years who has done nothing to warrant this ejection. The NPO's purge of Lazarus's population is illegitimate and petty.

She has used her power within the region to threaten the delegate's position a number of times, verbally and while simultaneously boosting her endorsement level. From what I have heard, UIAF members have been ceaselessly attempting to enter Lazarus's government during Feux's time as delegate and trying to pile the government. Those already established within the region flocked alongside Vik when attempts at imposition were made on the administration of the region.

A better authority on this would be Feux, however. We can expect a statement from him soon.

[Unibot III]

The NPO's purge of Lazarus's population is illegitimate and petty.

*coughs and chokes on the bullshit* Wait, you're the guy who has justified your hold on Valhalla on the basis of legitimacy...

It is true the proclamation which is required to make a region a colony in TNI law has no in-game effect. However, none of the standards you suggest as making an invasion legitimate, such as being invited by the natives, have any in-game effect either. We should not judge any claims to legitimacy based upon their in-game effect because force is merely how control is maintained, not the justification for it.

I always found it unreal that TNI has the galls to claim Valhalla to be theirs just because they invaded the region for 11 days back in 2006.

[...]The FRA had no right to interfere in this process and we regard our initial claim as having been legitimate.

Or attacking Nationstates Communist Party...

I am posting to affirm LKE support for the action. Whilst NSCP was never an active defender region, it participated in several defences and more significantly, used a password obtaining from cracking an email to take over the founder nation of an LKE colony back in early 2007. I do not know if the current membership was involved, but the region itself was. It is therefore a legitimate target in our view.

I don't really understand how you can claim illegitimacy here... The Lazarus Adminstration had the legal power, right and might to impose these security measures.

[A mean old man]

Let's not forget UIAF's LEGITIMATE invasion of The Rejected Realms, Uni. Attacking FRA members is obviously far more important than respecting the sovereignty of a sinker region.

[Whiskum]

Only longest serving up to the point the game took record of the time served

She was also an onstructionist waste of space. She did nothing but take up space. That space has now been cleared for real natives of Lazarus.

Griffin has been a loyal member of Lazarus since 2008, for a significant period as Delegate and a substantial contributor. How is she not a real native under any definition?

These ejections, from how they have been targeted to the manner of the announcement, constitute the NPO asserting its right to rule Lazarus in practice. If not reversed this constitutes a seizure of Lazarus's autonomy and its rule of law by the NPO. That is essentially a coup.

Your point is correct, though it does not change the fact that Griffin is a significant former Delegate as well as a highly distinguished and long-serving member of Lazarus for years who has done nothing to warrant this ejection. The NPO's purge of Lazarus's population is illegitimate and petty.

She has used her power within the region to threaten the delegate's position a number of times, verbally and while simultaneously boosting her endorsement level. From what I have heard, UIAF members have been ceaselessly attempting to enter Lazarus's government during Feux's time as delegate and trying to pile the government. Those already established within the region flocked alongside Vik when attempts at imposition were made on the administration of the region.

A better authority on this would be Feux, however. We can expect a statement from him soon.

Have you any evidence of these threats?

Which UIAF members have been ceaselessly attempting to enter Lazarus's government? How has their presence been any more than that of the NPO?

This is all unsupported speculation: Griffin has been removed because she posed a threat were the NPO to attempt to take control of the region.

The NPO's purge of Lazarus's population is illegitimate and petty.

*coughs and chokes on the bullshit* Wait, you're the guy who has justified your hold on Valhalla on the basis of legitimacy...

It is true the proclamation which is required to make a region a colony in TNI law has no in-game effect. However, none of the standards you suggest as making an invasion legitimate, such as being invited by the natives, have any in-game effect either. We should not judge any claims to legitimacy based upon their in-game effect because force is merely how control is maintained, not the justification for it.

[...]The FRA had no right to interfere in this process and we regard our initial claim as having been legitimate.

Or attacking Nationstates Communist Party...

I am posting to affirm LKE support for the action. Whilst NSCP was never an active defender region, it participated in several defences and more significantly, used a password obtaining from cracking an email to take over the founder nation of an LKE colony back in early 2007. I do not know if the current membership was involved, but the region itself was. It is therefore a legitimate target in our view.

I fail to see how any of those quotes contradict my statements here in any way. I am disturbed you think the NSCP using a password from a cracked email to access the founder of an LKE colony is not legitimate grounds for attacking them.

Thank you for confirming that the UDL is now openly supporting coups of game-created regions.

[Mahaj]

Thank you for confirming that the UDL is now openly supporting coups of game-created regions.

If you're just going to make up things then nobody ought to bother discussing anything with you.

[Unibot III]

How is this a "coup"? There hasn't been a regime change and the same constitution has been upheld and followed.

Some TNIers were removed because of a security threat and.. who comes to their defense? Onder. >_> Claiming illegitimacy of course. I can assure you, Onder that the definition of Legitimate is not "whatever Onder wants", nor is the definition of Illegitimate, "whatever Onder doesn't want".

[A mean old man]

Griffin has been removed because she posed a threat were the NPO to attempt to take control of the region.

...except you failed to anticipate the next plot twist.

[Whiskum]

Thank you for confirming that the UDL is now openly supporting coups of game-created regions.

If you're just going to make up things then nobody ought to bother discussing anything with you.

So the UDL is refusing to condone Feux's actions, unlike Unibot, or are you saying that Feux's actions are not tantamount to a coup?

Some TNIers were removed because of a security threat and.. who comes to their defense? Onder. >_>

Forgive me for posting in response to a report with my name mindlessly littered all over it as part of an absurd descriptor.

The NPO removing its political opponents from Lazarus subverts Lazarus's autonomy and its status as an independent region. Feux may well be resigning (we have yet to see who will replace him), but democracy and self-determination in Lazarus have clearly been compromised as the NPO has asserted the right to crush potential sources of internal disagreement on the basis that these individuals could threaten the NPO's ability to control the region.

[The North Polish Union]

Some TNIers were removed because of a security threat and.. who comes to their defense? Onder. >_>

Eh. I'll come to their defense. Oh wait... Apparently I'm a member of "the Ondersphere" even if I "don't readily identify with it" yet.

[A mean old man]

Eh. I'll come to their defense. Oh wait... Apparently I'm a member of "the Ondersphere" even if I "don't readily identify with it" yet.

If I stated that you "don't readily identify with" the Ondersphere, chances are you don't identify with the Ondersphere.

Best to acknowledge the possibility, though, since I have no idea who the fuck you actually identify with.

[Mallorea and Riva]

When the time came to jump, TBH leadership gave the command without pinging the room and continued to argue with PEF lead Karpathos in multiple channels outside of the group chat, (intentionally?) distracting him and causing him to jump into NAZI EUROPE approximately 30 seconds late. TBH leadership immediately threw the blame for the mission's failure on PEF lead Karpathos.

You were suspicious of us, you pulled the endos from the other points, and Karpathos moved late as he always does. No wonder we tried to have more than one point. Leave us out of your politicking AMOM, anyone who has ever worked with us (from TNP to the UIAF) knows that we don't undermine those we work with. Anyone who doesn't know that, hasn't worked with us. I stopped reading there, because while I would like to see what everyone else has had to say, your attempt to politicize one of the few purely raider organizations in NS undermines everything else you have to say.

Karp I know you're going to come in here and blame it on Jakker like AMOM just tried to do, but your not scoring points for the NPO anymore bud.

[0rville Redenbacher]

I'll just leave this here.

[Hobbesistan]

I'll just leave this here.

(Image)

I approve!

[PrussianEmpire]

I'll just leave this here.

(Image)

I approve!

Itsssssss great!

[Retired WerePenguins]

I'll just leave this here.

Thanks Orville.

[Punk Reloaded]

Oh where, oh where are the good guys anymore?

I feel so...violated with these recent revelations. hehehe

[East Jupiter]

Oh where, oh where are the good guys anymore?

Unibot III

[Ambroscus Koth]

Oh where, oh where are the good guys anymore?

Unibot III

You really are trying hard to annoy the widest range of people possible, aren't you?

[East Jupiter]

Don't hate on Clark Kent.

[Falconias]

Interesting read. Trailed off a bit after a while but interesting none the less.

I have my own opinions but I would like to hear NES's response first. In particular, his response to the logs showing him stating there was a group of people in Balder specifically to prevent the UDL or FRA from taking hold. I'm not sure which is more incredible - that this means NES lied through his teeth to me swearing that no such imperialist scheme like this existed; or that NES was short sighted enough to have this chat on IRC with someone he had less than friendly relations with.

[Karpathos]

Interesting read. Trailed off a bit after a while but interesting none the less.

I have my own opinions but I would like to hear NES's response first. In particular, his response to the logs showing him stating there was a group of people in Balder specifically to prevent the UDL or FRA from taking hold. I'm not sure which is more incredible - that this means NES lied through his teeth to me swearing that no such imperialist scheme like this existed; or that NES was short sighted enough to have this chat on IRC with someone he had less than friendly relations with.

Probably both, chief.