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by Communist Eraser » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:20 pm
by The North Polish Union » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:30 pm
SFBA wabbitslayah wrote:Whiskum wrote:You say that 'Slavia trying to leave regardless' straight after you say that the FRA, on the same evidence, was 'confused if they wanted to leave or not'.
If the FRA was confused over whether they wanted to leave, then it cannot have been, at the time of the invasion, an established 'fact', 'regardless' of all circumstances, that they wanted to go before the point when we made clear to them the implications of being an FRA member in light of the ongoing wars.
In any case point is utterly moot as far as we are concerned. It joined the FRA only a month ago. It remained an FRA region at the time of the invasion, having failed to either leave under the Charter or take practical steps to leave (e.g. removing the embassy, an external announcement, withdrawing its regional representatives). The fact is they only resigned from the FRA 'once and for all' after we invaded, by which point they ceased to be a sovereign entity. If it is an FRA region, then it is an enemy which we are at war with and that is that, hence why we invaded it and took it out of the FRA.
I'll explain a bit, the confusion was mostly in the irc channel. We had a member of Slavia in that channel, and from what we were told it seemed at first the majority of Slavia wanted to leave, but then that one member said they wanted to stay or something like that. That was just one guy, and he was giving mixed signals. So the FRA treated them as members until they left the correct way.
I don't have the logs for that. This is all I can recall.
I'm not arguing if it was legitimate of UIAF to invade the region or not, I don't really care. Just trying to give the information that I can remember. Do what you will.
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.
by The North Polish Union » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:38 pm
Communist Eraser wrote:Slavia likes to argue on technicalities to prove they are right, when imo a simple "We tried to leave FRA, maybe it wasn't too clear, we're sorry for that UIAF, please treat us nicely" would have probably solved this.
Of course they are too proud and defiant for that.
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.
by The North Polish Union » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:48 pm
Whiskum wrote:Mahaj wrote:I think he was saying that he doesn't really care about whether you consider your invasion legitimate or not because nobody really cares about what the UIAF has to say on anything anywhere.
They expressly stated they were not 'arguing it was legitimate of UIAF to invade the region or not, I don't really care. '
That is not a statement about caring about whether the UIAF thinks it was legitimate, it is a statement about caring whether it was legitimate or not.
As for whether other people really care what the UIAF has to say about Slavia's FRA status, then the natives of Slavia care a lot, or else they would not have gone to the effort of claiming to have actually left the FRA before the invasion when that simply was not true, as the FRA has now confirmed to us.
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.
by Karputsk » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:50 pm
by Whiskum » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:52 pm
The North Polish Union wrote:Communist Eraser wrote:Slavia likes to argue on technicalities to prove they are right, when imo a simple "We tried to leave FRA, maybe it wasn't too clear, we're sorry for that UIAF, please treat us nicely" would have probably solved this.
Of course they are too proud and defiant for that.
IMO, since our regions FRA rep posted a thread on the FRA forum saying that we were leaving the FRA, it's difficult to make ourselves clearer to the FRA administration. The FRA administration then did nothing, not even contact government members, although there was apparently some confusion. Slavia left the FRA over 10 days before the raid, plently of time for the FRA to rectify the situation, or at least make it known to us that our departure had not been formalized. As they did nothing, we assumed that the FRA had complied with our wishes and removed our region from the member list. Slavia was not an FRA member as of January 2, it is an error on the part of the FRA and the UIAF that we were still considered FRA members and were targeted as such.
by The North Polish Union » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:35 pm
Karputsk wrote:There were several replies to the topic and Frattastan and myself discussed this with Albul who claimed you were still FRA members. Also, Albul (the other representative), disputed Bolguria's statement which was not made to the Regional Assembly as the Charter specified anyway. The same can also be said for the FRA Administration over the Christmas period.
You can't pin all the blame on the FRA as much as you want to.
Whiskum wrote:The North Polish Union wrote:IMO, since our regions FRA rep posted a thread on the FRA forum saying that we were leaving the FRA, it's difficult to make ourselves clearer to the FRA administration. The FRA administration then did nothing, not even contact government members, although there was apparently some confusion. Slavia left the FRA over 10 days before the raid, plently of time for the FRA to rectify the situation, or at least make it known to us that our departure had not been formalized. As they did nothing, we assumed that the FRA had complied with our wishes and removed our region from the member list. Slavia was not an FRA member as of January 2, it is an error on the part of the FRA and the UIAF that we were still considered FRA members and were targeted as such.
Slavia agreed to the FRA Charter when it joined the FRA. The FRA Charter states that regions leave the FRA when their regional representatives announce 'directly to the Regional Assembly' that they are leaving. Slavia's regional representative did not do that until 3rd January, therefore Slavia did not leave the FRA officially until 3rd January. When Slavia's FRA regional representative did make that statement, he referred the invasion as a reason for leaving.
The fact is Slavia officially remained an FRA region. The UIAF does not show leniency of any kind to FRA regions, as Slavia knew when it joined the FRA.
If you are an FRA region, or close to being an FRA region as having joined the FRA last month, we have always been very clear what our attitude is.
Moreover, that official status was reflected in Slavia's practical situation in that its regional representatives continued to be grouped as such at the FRA, and indeed after the Christmas Eve statement invoked those privileges in order to resign properly, Slavia did not make an external announcement leaving the FRA as it did when joining the FRA, Slavia did not withdraw its FRA Embassy and Slavia remained on the FRA's membership list. Whatever its intentions (though it is clear that different people in Slavia were pulling in different directions), Slavia remained in the FRA for both official and practical purposes.
The only failings here are Slavia joining the FRA and apparently being unable to correctly leave it, and the FRA's inability to protect what it considered to be one of its members. If members of Slavia have a problem with either of those two things, the only people they have to blame are the FRA and other members of Slavia. Given we are at war with FRA regions, there is absolutely no reason for UIAF to afford them leniency in considering such matters.
The FRA's central body may well have been inefficient in attending to Slavia's desire to leave in the hope of keeping them in. That's between you and them. It does not change the fact that Slavia remained an FRA member. The UIAF is at war with the FRA and has inflicted retribution on its member.
With the invasion of taking one of their regions, the FRA have suffered a defeat at the hands of the UIAF.
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.
by Whiskum » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:50 pm
by SFBA wabbitslayah » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:15 pm
The main failing is the FRA's unwillingness to accept our resignation due to a minor and easily fixed technicality and their further unwillingness to gain clarification on our withdrawal. Had they done either of those things, the situation easily would have been averted.
by The North Polish Union » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:33 pm
Whiskum wrote:Slavia did not withdraw from the FRA on Christmas Eve, because under the terms of the FRA Charter, it had to announce its withdrawal to the Regional Assembly. It did not do this until 3rd January, after the invasion - it was only then when it left the FRA 'once and for all' to quote the statement - a statement issued by Slavia's FRA rep after the invasion. This is the official status of Slavia under the Charter which it agreed to when it joined the FRA.
If members of Slavia do no want to follow the FRA Charter in this matter, they should have never signed up for it.
The moment they signed up to the FRA they lost any expectation of consideration from the UIAF.
It is true that there was bungling by both the FRA and Slavia in that process, but that has absolutely no bearing Slavia's official status.
Since then until the invasion, in the ways I have described (the embassy, its regional representatives, lack of announcement etc.), there had been no practical change in its relationship with the FRA either beyond a desire to leave which was officially unfulfilled.
Slavia was an official FRA region at the point of the invasion, it joined the FRA only last month, and if members of Slavia are unhappy with the fact they failed to withdraw from the FRA in any official and practical sense, then they have only themselves and the FRA to blame.
The UIAF invaded a region officially in the FRA. If members of Slavia disagree with their membership of the FRA, that is excellent, but the way for them to express that disagreement is not through denial of all reality - it is through welcoming the UIAF intervening to finally reverse its FRA status.
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.
by The North Polish Union » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:38 pm
SFBA wabbitslayah wrote:The main failing is the FRA's unwillingness to accept our resignation due to a minor and easily fixed technicality and their further unwillingness to gain clarification on our withdrawal. Had they done either of those things, the situation easily would have been averted.
That's not the FRA's fault. Slavia accepted the FRA charter when it joined. Let's assume Slavia did not do it officially the second time, you'd still be FRA members even though Slavia would not recognize that, which the UIAF would probably see your mistake and punish you for it, if they felt so inclined.
Regardless of the FRA or not, when you basically sign any form of "contract" you abide by it's terms. If I bought a phone contract for a certain amount of time, I cannot just go "fuck you guys I quit" without following the terms to leaving the contract accepted by all parties or I can still be legally billed, fined, whatever.
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.
by Whiskum » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:03 pm
The North Polish Union wrote:Whiskum wrote:Slavia did not withdraw from the FRA on Christmas Eve, because under the terms of the FRA Charter, it had to announce its withdrawal to the Regional Assembly. It did not do this until 3rd January, after the invasion - it was only then when it left the FRA 'once and for all' to quote the statement - a statement issued by Slavia's FRA rep after the invasion. This is the official status of Slavia under the Charter which it agreed to when it joined the FRA.
If members of Slavia do no want to follow the FRA Charter in this matter, they should have never signed up for it.
The moment they signed up to the FRA they lost any expectation of consideration from the UIAF.
It is true that there was bungling by both the FRA and Slavia in that process, but that has absolutely no bearing Slavia's official status.
Since then until the invasion, in the ways I have described (the embassy, its regional representatives, lack of announcement etc.), there had been no practical change in its relationship with the FRA either beyond a desire to leave which was officially unfulfilled.
Slavia was an official FRA region at the point of the invasion, it joined the FRA only last month, and if members of Slavia are unhappy with the fact they failed to withdraw from the FRA in any official and practical sense, then they have only themselves and the FRA to blame.
The UIAF invaded a region officially in the FRA. If members of Slavia disagree with their membership of the FRA, that is excellent, but the way for them to express that disagreement is not through denial of all reality - it is through welcoming the UIAF intervening to finally reverse its FRA status.
The fact that the FRA not only refused to acknowledge our Christmas Eve resignation but also refused to attempt to clarify points of confusion, which I must note Slavia was entirely unaware of, with us does not make us an FRA member region. The fact that they did not accept our withdrawal until after we had become founderless and been raided is a testimony to the FRA's rejection of member regions which no longer can further their political aims. The fact that they further made us "announce" our withdrawal (which we had announced two weeks ago) after removing us from their member list is further proof that they had already accepted our withdrawal. The FRA refused to accept our withdrawal when we could still be of service to us, but booted us (despite our not being FRA members) when we were no longer of service to them. Had true ties existed between Slavia and the FRA, even an organization as corrupt as the FEA would have been obliged to honor it.
I have stated before numerous times that the FRA's refusal to recognize Slavia's withdrawal does not mean that Slavia never actually withdrew. Furthermore, the UIAF's raid had nothing to do with Slavia's withdrawal from the FRA, as Slavia had withdrawn nearly two weeks before the raid occurred.
by Chernihiv » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:20 pm
by Whiskum » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:50 pm
Chernihiv wrote:As per the SCOP's statement here. Sword Excalibur has been banned from Poland Lithuania and is hereby declared persona non grata in all SCOP member regions for his failure to accede to our requests of 3rd January.
Chernihiv wrote:The SCOP further urges all potential allies of the UIAF to be wary, as the UIAF has shown that they have no respect for the signatory regions of fellow imperialist organization, and furthermore they find it necessary to justify such egregious misconduct through tissues of lies and half-truths while refusing all offers of negotiation.
by Drop Your Pants » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:52 pm
The North Polish Union wrote:The fact that the FRA not only refused to acknowledge our Christmas Eve resignation but also refused to attempt to clarify points of confusion, which I must note Slavia was entirely unaware of, with us does not make us an FRA member region
by Christopher Bishop » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:15 pm
Chernihiv wrote:A further statement from the SCOP concerning the continued crisis in Slavia
As per the SCOP's statement here. Sword Excalibur has been banned from Poland Lithuania and is hereby declared persona non grata in all SCOP member regions for his failure to accede to our requests of 3rd January.
All citizens of UIAF member regions are further declared persona non grata in all SCOP signatory regions until such a time as (a) the UIAF withdraws from Slavia and apologizes for any consequences to the community thereof due to their actions in said region and (b) the UIAF agrees not to take any military action against SCOP signatory regions, their colonies, their protectorates, and any and all other regions affiliated with the SCOP.
The SCOP further urges all potential allies of the UIAF to be wary, as the UIAF has shown that they have no respect for the signatory regions of fellow imperialist organization, and furthermore they find it necessary to justify such egregious misconduct through tissues of lies and half-truths while refusing all offers of negotiation.
Chernihiv, Head of the SCOP Department of Foreign Affairs.
by Tim-Opolis » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:16 pm
<Koth - 06/30/2020> I mean as far as GPers go, Tim is one of the most iconic
by Rapturous Arc » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:20 pm
Tim-Opolis wrote:Woah, you tagged it! *gasp*
Yeah you show those SCOP! Tagging their region, man that'll scare them.
by SS Longclaw » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:21 pm
by Transfiguration 100 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:24 pm
by Malevolent Thomas » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:24 pm
SS Longclaw wrote:Rapturous Arc wrote:
We did indeed tag them, very observant of you. You also did nothing to prevent it. No fendas in sight. What a shame.
There were four or so of you, no sitting Delegate, and one of me. There didn't seem to be any point in jumping. As for why I'm the only one spotting, beats me.
-Tim
by Venico » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:28 pm
by Florenciar » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:31 pm
Malevolent Thomas wrote:SS Longclaw wrote:
There were four or so of you, no sitting Delegate, and one of me. There didn't seem to be any point in jumping. As for why I'm the only one spotting, beats me.
-Tim
You weren't, but as you said there was no point in deploying. They have a founder so they can deal with it when they log on.
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