The United Defenders League

[Jakker]

I know FRA is also involved, but I'm just going to stick to one thread. Can someone tell me why defenders are staying in Zoo against some native wishes such as this one? :

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=1654552

I didn't know protecting natives meant playing big brother and controlling it from them because apparently they are believed to be incompetent to protect themselves.

Edit: Natives even have made their own region. This has all the looks of a raid. Someone should write a liberation proposal

[Kingborough]

The FRA (not UDL) leader of that operation only just managed to get enough influence to change the password about two minutes ago from when I post this. So really the lockdown should be ending soon.

[Tramiar]

Oh look! A new password! And it isn't available to the natives. Funny... when we have an unknown password on a region and natives complain about it (or don't, as the case may be), we're doing something horrible. When defenders have an unknown password and natives complain it... I'm not sure what it is, but obviously not horrible, because the natives would surely be saved by the defe- oh. Um... this is awkward.





(Maybe this would have been better placed in the FRA's thread if they're leading this, but it fit more with the current convo here... )

[Klaus Devestatorie]

I was starting to think the password wasn't actually changeable. The password is actually hidden from the natives? That's amusing, I hope they told them what it is.

[Kingborough]

I wonder how Tramiar knows that, don't you have to be a inhabitant to see if the password is known to the natives? ... so unless they have a spy within Zoo ...

[Everbeek]

You can see on the Administration page of a region wether a password is visible or not.

[Fratt]

For those who are concerned for the Zoo residents, defenders will leave and the password will be given to natives.
To natives, not to eventual raider puppets.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

For those who are concerned for the Zoo residents, defenders will leave and the password will be given to natives.
To natives, not to eventual raider puppets.

That's discriminatory!

[SunRawr]

For those who are concerned for the Zoo residents, defenders will leave and the password will be given to natives.
To natives, not to eventual raider puppets.

You tell 'em Fratt! Go help those natives, whether they like it or not!

[Cormac Stark]

For those who are concerned for the Zoo residents, defenders will leave and the password will be given to natives.
To natives, not to eventual raider puppets.

When?

Because given the native resistance to your occupation, if you're not out within 24 hours I'm authoring Liberate Zoo.

EDIT: Changed my mind. Why put off until tomorrow what you could get done today?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

For those who are concerned for the Zoo residents, defenders will leave and the password will be given to natives.
To natives, not to eventual raider puppets.

When?

Because given the native resistance to your occupation, if you're not out within 24 hours I'm authoring Liberate Zoo.

And I'm approving it when it's written.

For those who are concerned for the Zoo residents, defenders will leave and the password will be given to natives.
To natives, not to eventual raider puppets.

Ah, defender imperialism, I can smell the stench of hypocrisy from here.

[Hungry]

When?

Because given the native resistance to your occupation, if you're not out within 24 hours I'm authoring Liberate Zoo.

And I'm approving it when it's written.

and it probably will not pass because the Defenders will be gone by the time it even gains any traction in the WA.

For those who are concerned for the Zoo residents, defenders will leave and the password will be given to natives.
To natives, not to eventual raider puppets.

I can't, we're trying to save the region and are currently moving out. Only hypocrisy I see is a bunch of Imperialistic Stalinist trying to claim Leftism. Tell the Red Occupiers in Corporate Fascism that Miserable Hobos said hi and that he plans on returning eventually.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

I can't, we're trying to save the region and are currently moving out. Only hypocrisy I see is a bunch of Imperialistic Stalinist trying to claim Leftism. Tell the Red Occupiers in Corporate Fascism that Miserable Hobos said hi and that he plans on returning eventually.

As I'm the leading Red Occupier, thanks for the greeting.

I attack fascist regions. If I begin attacking non-fascist regions, then feel free to call me a Left Imperialist. as of now, I'm carrying out my social duty in the face of fairly determined Chamberlo-Petainesque appeasement of and collaboration with fascism.

I'm not a Stalinist, I'm a Trotskyist. I'm much more socialist , and certainly more so than a protesting 'social democrat'. But RL politics aren't welcome in Gameplay, so I'll leave that there.

If you're interested in Red Imperialists, please see Leninist Russia. They are, the rest of us aren't. Comprende?

[Hungry]

I can't, we're trying to save the region and are currently moving out. Only hypocrisy I see is a bunch of Imperialistic Stalinist trying to claim Leftism. Tell the Red Occupiers in Corporate Fascism that Miserable Hobos said hi and that he plans on returning eventually.

As I'm the leading Red Occupier, thanks for the greeting.

I attack fascist regions. If I begin attacking non-fascist regions, then feel free to call me a Left Imperialist. as of now, I'm carrying out my social duty in the face of fairly determined Chamberlo-Petainesque appeasement of and collaboration with fascism.

I'm not a Stalinist, I'm a Trotskyist. I'm much more socialist , and certainly more so than a protesting 'social democrat'. But RL politics aren't welcome in Gameplay, so I'll leave that there.

If you're interested in Red Imperialists, please see Leninist Russia. They are, the rest of us aren't. Comprende?

You attack fascist regions and what do you do to them? Supress them and just try to kill them. Seems something a fascist would try and do themselves. I in no way Support Fascism, however I support a regions right to freedom. Unless a region has declared war on my region or my region has a viable casus belli, I don't support going to war and restricting the freedom of another region. We don't collaborate with fascists, we protect free speech, Comprende?

Trotsky isn't that much better than Stalin and Social Democracy is progress of the world. I think of Socialism as the end game and Social Democracy as the means of reaching it. I'll leave it at that though.

[Jakker]

And I'm approving it when it's written.

and it probably will not pass because the Defenders will be gone by the time it even gains any traction in the WA.

For those who are concerned for the Zoo residents, defenders will leave and the password will be given to natives.
To natives, not to eventual raider puppets.

I can't, we're trying to save the region and are currently moving out. Only hypocrisy I see is a bunch of Imperialistic Stalinist trying to claim Leftism. Tell the Red Occupiers in Corporate Fascism that Miserable Hobos said hi and that he plans on returning eventually.

I see far more hypocrisy than that. FRA and UDL have occupied Zoo for over three weeks. Why couldn't they have worked to switch over the delegacy to a native? Why stay when clearly the natives no longer want them or the password there as evident by them creating and moving to a new region?

[Hungry]

and it probably will not pass because the Defenders will be gone by the time it even gains any traction in the WA.



I can't, we're trying to save the region and are currently moving out. Only hypocrisy I see is a bunch of Imperialistic Stalinist trying to claim Leftism. Tell the Red Occupiers in Corporate Fascism that Miserable Hobos said hi and that he plans on returning eventually.

I see far more hypocrisy than that. FRA and UDL have occupied Zoo for over three weeks. Why couldn't they have worked to switch over the delegacy to a native? Why stay when clearly the natives no longer want them or the password there as evident by them creating and moving to a new region?

I can see a few raider puppets inside of Zoo so who do you know is a native and who is a raider? As soon as we live, the raiders will probably come back. We shouldn't leave until the job is done. Not all of them have moved to the new region and the FRA and UDL has started to move out and return the region to the natives.

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

I simply think a frank discussion now will ease what I can see becoming a problem later. As far as I know UDL do not have a policy in place to ensure regional governments do not become saturated with UDL Members.
UDL may not see it as a problem if that does happen and it would be difficult to police and monitor. Nations could consider more than one region their home.
If it is not addressed at some point it will bite UDL on the ass though. Heck TITO have enough nations that we could change our current policy to allow nations to hold Government positions in other regions but the problem then is how many can hold how many positions before the region is TITO controlled?
I hope you can see what I am trying to convey. It is not an attack on UDL but it does concern me that with the growth of the organisation the influence they hold also grows.

Sorry to reply at this late date, I was slightly preoccupied IRL. I think it's probably a good idea for me specifically to reply here, seeing as I'm delegate of TNP and a UDL member and all that

Some time back when the accusations were being tossed around viz-a-viz TSP I drafted a UDL policy on lobbying, with input from other officers. While there was a widespread outcry among UDLers against the perceived draconian nature of the policy, which seems to have led it to sit in Draft stage, I have been quietly obeying it personally.

That policy, somewhat limited in scope, prohibits UDL officers from lobbying people ranked below them in UDL. That is to say, the policy would prohibit a Lieutenant approaching a Merryman about some political matter in Region X in private, asking for their support.

I have not politicked with any person in UDL who could be conceived of as ranked below me in private about since, despite this being quite annoying on occasion

Any kind of quota system would probably be in conflict with the basic organizing principle of the UDL, that any player be allowed to join us if they commit to our principles.

As regards myself and TNP specifically, I think of myself as a TNPer first, and a UDLer second.

[Jakker]

I see far more hypocrisy than that. FRA and UDL have occupied Zoo for over three weeks. Why couldn't they have worked to switch over the delegacy to a native? Why stay when clearly the natives no longer want them or the password there as evident by them creating and moving to a new region?

I can see a few raider puppets inside of Zoo so who do you know is a native and who is a raider? As soon as we live, the raiders will probably come back. We shouldn't leave until the job is done. Not all of them have moved to the new region and the FRA and UDL has started to move out and return the region to the natives.

Yeah, after nearly four weeks of control.

Oh so since there are raider puppets around in regions and there's the possibility of raiders trying to raid a region, then I guess defenders need to raid and control every founderless region eh? If you did your job defending, you wouldn't have to raid innocent regions and act as though you're protecting them.

[Hungry]

I can see a few raider puppets inside of Zoo so who do you know is a native and who is a raider? As soon as we live, the raiders will probably come back. We shouldn't leave until the job is done. Not all of them have moved to the new region and the FRA and UDL has started to move out and return the region to the natives.

Yeah, after nearly four weeks of control.

Oh so since there are raider puppets around in regions and there's the possibility of raiders trying to raid a region, then I guess defenders need to raid and control every founderless region eh? If you did your job defending, you wouldn't have to raid innocent regions and act as though you're protecting them.

Zoo just had a higher priority, I'm not high in the UDL command so I do not know why that is.

You are aware that actual defending is right near impossible? Raiders have numbers and raiders have it easier. Defending is not an easy task.

[Jakker]

Yeah, after nearly four weeks of control.

Oh so since there are raider puppets around in regions and there's the possibility of raiders trying to raid a region, then I guess defenders need to raid and control every founderless region eh? If you did your job defending, you wouldn't have to raid innocent regions and act as though you're protecting them.

Zoo just had a higher priority, I'm not high in the UDL command so I do not know why that is.

You are aware that actual defending is right near impossible? Raiders have numbers and raiders have it easier. Defending is not an easy task.

Ah, "actual defending". Then, I guess I should stop calling FRA and UDL actual defenders then. Defending might be tough, but TITO still does a fine job of it. Maybe you guys should learn a little from them?

[Hungry]

Zoo just had a higher priority, I'm not high in the UDL command so I do not know why that is.

You are aware that actual defending is right near impossible? Raiders have numbers and raiders have it easier. Defending is not an easy task.

Ah, "actual defending". Then, I guess I should stop calling FRA and UDL actual defenders then. Defending might be tough, but TITO still does a fine job of it. Maybe you guys should learn a little from them?

Actual Defender is not as easy as it seems, we still manage to pull it off from time to time and we try to do it. If you think it's so easy why don't you try doing it? The FRA and UDL does the best job they can and if raiding wasn't so easy, we could do it better.

I have a question for you, you seem to dislike defender organizations. What fun would the raider/defender game be without any opponents?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Ah, "actual defending". Then, I guess I should stop calling FRA and UDL actual defenders then. Defending might be tough, but TITO still does a fine job of it. Maybe you guys should learn a little from them?

Actual Defender is not as easy as it seems, we still manage to pull it off from time to time and we try to do it. If you think it's so easy why don't you try doing it? The FRA and UDL does the best job they can and if raiding wasn't so easy, we could do it better.

I have a question for you, you seem to dislike defender organizations. What fun would the raider/defender game be without any opponents?

Just as fun, because then leftie antifascist raiders and generic raiders could maraud to their hearts' content without minor irritants like the UDL and the FRA, who don't actually stop raids but just get in the way.

You don't really 'defend' as such any more anyway, you just use the SC for your own ends.

[Hungry]

Actual Defender is not as easy as it seems, we still manage to pull it off from time to time and we try to do it. If you think it's so easy why don't you try doing it? The FRA and UDL does the best job they can and if raiding wasn't so easy, we could do it better.

I have a question for you, you seem to dislike defender organizations. What fun would the raider/defender game be without any opponents?

Just as fun, because then leftie antifascist raiders and generic raiders could maraud to their hearts' content without minor irritants like the UDL and the FRA, who don't actually stop raids but just get in the way.

You don't really 'defend' as such any more anyway, you just use the SC for your own ends.

Now I'm confused, do you honestly think that by raiding fascist/nazi regions that you are honestly going to make a difference. This is a game and thinking that raiding regions will honestly change someones opinion is hilarious.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Just as fun, because then leftie antifascist raiders and generic raiders could maraud to their hearts' content without minor irritants like the UDL and the FRA, who don't actually stop raids but just get in the way.

You don't really 'defend' as such any more anyway, you just use the SC for your own ends.

Now I'm confused, do you honestly think that by raiding fascist/nazi regions that you are honestly going to make a difference. This is a game and thinking that raiding regions will honestly change someones opinion is hilarious.

I take it you didn't see what was achieved earlier this week, then, when the owner of a large amount of GGR colonies repented and handed them all over to Regional Defense Committee. Checking facts before you make your points is advisable.

It might not make a massive difference, but it's intensely satisfying.

[Hungry]

Now I'm confused, do you honestly think that by raiding fascist/nazi regions that you are honestly going to make a difference. This is a game and thinking that raiding regions will honestly change someones opinion is hilarious.

I take it you didn't see what was achieved earlier this week, then, when the owner of a large amount of GGR colonies repented and handed them all over to The Left Interregional. Checking facts before you make your points is advisable.

It might not make a massive difference, but it's intensely satisfying.

They handed you over a bunch of their NS colonies that they just hold for no reason.

Big whoop!

Most of those regions were just collecting dust and honestly it's pointless to boast about it as a huge victory.