Neutral Ground - an Open Discussion Thread

[Improving Wordiness]

Everyone knows the central hub for invaders is IRC.

[Totally Not Leningrad Union]

Everyone knows the central hub for invaders is IRC.

TBR uses Skype, it's better than IRC

[Port blood]

What the heck does that proposal have to do with Forum destruction?

...did you even read my post?

defenders want to DESTROY raiders,as exampled in the proposal,but regions can't be disbanded due to founders/non-exec,so they destroy forums instead

Everyone knows the central hub for invaders is IRC.

Once again,READ

"cultural hub"

I ask you,who here is the bad guy when defenders destroy forums? the cultural hub for raiders

The bad guy is whoever destroys the forum, regardless of the side they're on.

I made my point.
Stop defender moral superiority! they are no better then raiders! we are all human beings!

[Shizensky]

The bad guy is whoever destroys the forum, regardless of the side they're on.

I made my point.
Stop defender moral superiority! they are no better then raiders! we are all human beings!

What point is that, exactly? I'm certain you're not trying to claim that forum destruction is limited to one side of R/D.

[Venico]

Everyone knows the central hub for invaders is IRC.

IRC is a defender tool, like reading.

[Improving Wordiness]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=193670&start=700#p19657747


this proposal is a exact mindset of a LOT of defenders/natives

"stop it or we will destroy you",luckily stupid people can't do much against founder/non-exec,but lets not forget forum destruction


I ask you,who here is the bad guy when defenders destroy forums? the cultural hub for raiders

What?
That proposal did not even mention forum destruction...you did. I do not know why the hell you made that jump other than to take a piss weak shot at defenders.

[Venico]

People in that thread were suggesting forum destruction. It was Codger I believe?

VeniEdit: Nope that was another thread. My apologies. Still a relevant discussion none the less.

Linky to discussion on hurting raiders outside of NS

[Port blood]

I made my point.
Stop defender moral superiority! they are no better then raiders! we are all human beings!

What point is that, exactly? I'm certain you're not trying to claim that forum destruction is limited to one side of R/D.

Thats my point as well,raiders are equal to defenders and vise versa
raiders are not better,nor are defenders

What?
That proposal did not even mention forum destruction...you did. I do not know why the hell you made that jump other than to take a piss weak shot at defenders.

I can't say i expected better from someone from XKI
The proposal is NOT the central thing here,the central point here is defenders attitude

"stop it or we will destroy you"
point:a lot of defenders have this attitude
"can't do much against founder/non-exec"
point:disbanding raider regions isn't a option due to active founders,same goes for defender regions
"but lets not forget forum destruction"
point:forum destruction is possible,and has happened
"I ask you,who here is the bad guy"
point:sparking a discussion
"defenders destroy forums?"
point:defender have done so in the past
" the cultural hub for raiders"
point:RP has the NS forums as their cultural hub,and R/D mainly has off-site forums and the RMB of their regions as their cultural thing


So how about you stop argumentum ad hominem and respond to my argument? how would you feel if the XKI forums were destroyed by raiders?

[Warzone Codger]

I only ever give my thoughts when ever a thread veers towards a discussion of 'what could be done to make raiders feel the same pain as those they inflict'. Its not like I bring it up out of nothing!

But when it comes down to it really, what i object to is a certain smugness raiders have that they can inflict things on others knowing nothing could be done against them.

The only real deterrent is something with consequences so serious that they'll actually think twice about doing it.

Edit: I only speak for myself

Edit 2: I accepted the consequences of my opinions. My relationships in this game will never be as close as some others because there are some RL things I won't reveal/opportunities to be abused in this game.

Any of my region will only ever reach a certain size because I don't like using offsite forums.

[Unibot III]

Hey yeah, Wordy, who doesn't love Unibot?

Even Unibot loves Unibot. He's like the textbook definition of megalomania (Eye Keed, Eye Keed.)

You caught me.

[Port blood]

I only ever give my thoughts when ever a thread veers towards a discussion of 'what could be done to make raiders feel the same pain as those they inflict'. Its not like I bring it up out of nothing!

But when it comes down to it really, what i object to is a certain smugness raiders have that they can inflict things on others knowing nothing could be done against them.

The only real deterrent is something with consequences so serious that they'll actually think twice about doing it.

And you have no objection to the smugness of defenders with their morals?

If you want to "let raiders feel the same pain",go hit their regions,forum destruction is on a whole other level

[Venico]

I only ever give my thoughts when ever a thread veers towards a discussion of 'what could be done to make raiders feel the same pain as those they inflict'. Its not like I bring it up out of nothing!

But when it comes down to it really, what i object to is a certain smugness raiders have that they can inflict things on others knowing nothing could be done against them.

The only real deterrent is something with consequences so serious that they'll actually think twice about doing it.

Edit: I only speak for myself

Edit 2: I accepted the consequences of my opinions. My relationships in this game will never be as close as some others because there are some RL things I won't reveal/opportunities to be abused in this game.

Any of my region will only ever reach a certain size because I don't like using offsite forums.

I don't see that smugness in raiders to be honest...Most raiders know of/have had forums destroyed on them. When you wage war shit gets blown up. *shrugs*

[Improving Wordiness]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H3o8r7JgGY

Read the RMB of any region once invaded....smug all over it.

[Venico]

*looks at the Soviet Bloc and Hogwarts* Hmmm yes I see. Meaningful discussion and RP...*nods* I shall learn the ways of smugness o great Wordy.

*looks at regions raided by the Cat Burglars* Yes yes I see what you mean. The smugness practically oozes from them.

[Port blood]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H3o8r7JgGY

Read the RMB of any region once invaded....smug all over it.

argumentum ad hominem

But lets review Anarchy,a invasion still ongoing
\http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=6000999
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=5999622
native correcting punctuation and grammar

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=5944846
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=5993300
http://www.nationstates.net/page=boneya ... i_raideron
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=retu ... i_raideron
seriously stupid attempt to troll

Keep in mind raiders were in conversation about Palm Sunday while those posts were make,heck even a bit more back the natives admit flamebaiting

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=5954182

What really occurs is that a few Anarchist nations enjoy some invader baiting

See?

oh,and another thing

There have been some funny duck related moments,one of which came to a sudden end when the raiders complained to the mods they were being laughed at by us nasty natives. Some raiders have bordered on verbal abuse, though admittedly they have usually ceased when asked to.

Raiders had to complain about several puppetmasters seriously trolling,which moderation agreed on and remove said puppets/placed warnings

And this is just a FRACTION of what the natives do,so who here is to blame?

[Warzone Codger]

I only ever give my thoughts when ever a thread veers towards a discussion of 'what could be done to make raiders feel the same pain as those they inflict'. Its not like I bring it up out of nothing!

But when it comes down to it really, what i object to is a certain smugness raiders have that they can inflict things on others knowing nothing could be done against them.

The only real deterrent is something with consequences so serious that they'll actually think twice about doing it.

And you have no objection to the smugness of defenders with their morals?

If you want to "let raiders feel the same pain",go hit their regions,forum destruction is on a whole other level

My year and a half as "Communist Eraser" was about defender smugness. Summarised here: viewtopic.php?p=15620617#p15620617

Some would say I was rewriting history in that particular situation about Eastern Europe, but I have always spoken out against 'defender smugness' which works against my belief that regions deserve to be owned by those most willing to create activity for them. Even if they are newcomers who push out the existing natives.

What have you done in the game?

[Port blood]

My year and a half as "Communist Eraser" was about defender smugness. Summarised here: viewtopic.php?p=15620617#p15620617

Some would say I was rewriting history in that particular situation about Eastern Europe, but I have always spoken out against 'defender smugness' which works against my belief that regions deserve to be owned by those most willing to create activity for them. Even if they are newcomers who push out the existing natives.

What have you done in the game?

I'll be honest:not a lot actually,especially when compared to others,a period with TB H reaching CPL before falling off the grid completely due to RL reasons,then coming back trying to get back into raiding,but failed because seriously awkward update times,now I'm active on the forum trying to get some sense in GP (putting the play back in gameplay) and trying to become a good WA writer (I'm actually writing a proposal now,and will have a draft up soon),as well as a position in Gay as the Regional Council President where I'm striving to get to center neutrality(which isn't going well actually...)

on the subject of alignment:
raider - raider neutral - center neutral - defender neutral - defender
purists - imperials - transcended people - natives - purists




edit:
as much as i love to stay and chat,I'm going out to town for a few hours to get some cooking stuff to make tiramisu

[Alyekra]

What the heck does that proposal have to do with Forum destruction?

...did you even read my post?

defenders want to DESTROY raiders,as exampled in the proposal,but regions can't be disbanded due to founders/non-exec,so they destroy forums instead

Everyone knows the central hub for invaders is IRC.

Once again,READ

"cultural hub"

The bad guy is whoever destroys the forum, regardless of the side they're on.

I made my point.
Stop defender moral superiority! they are no better then raiders! we are all human beings!

You spend all your time upsetting people and you're surprised when they want to take drastic measures to stop you?

Myopic much?

[Mallorea and Riva]

Everyone knows the central hub for invaders is IRC.

IRC is a defender tool, like reading.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H3o8r7JgGY

Read the RMB of any region once invaded....smug all over it.

Of course we're smug. Why shouldn't we be?

[Port blood]

You spend all your time upsetting people and you're surprised when they want to take drastic measures to stop you?

Myopic much?

You spend all your time pushing your morals and expect people to object to it?

[Shizensky]

You spend all your time upsetting people and you're surprised when they want to take drastic measures to stop you?

Myopic much?

You spend all your time pushing your morals and expect people to object to it?

Please stop categorizing all defenders as moralists. Yes, it's an excellent selling point to get new people invested in the cause, but we're not all in the "le raiders are el diablo 4 rlz!"

Besides, telling someone else their point of view is wrong doesn't create an argument that yours is right.

[Port blood]

You spend all your time pushing your morals and expect people to object to it?

Please stop categorizing all defenders as moralists. Yes, it's an excellent selling point to get new people invested in the cause, but we're not all in the "le raiders are el diablo 4 rlz!"

Besides, telling someone else their point of view is wrong doesn't create an argument that yours is right.

Sorry if i seem to categorize defenders as moralistic,i don't mean to

I'm arguing against moralistic defenders;using real arguments

[Alyekra]

You spend all your time upsetting people and you're surprised when they want to take drastic measures to stop you?

Myopic much?

You spend all your time pushing your morals and expect people to object to it?

I'm not saying he's right, I'm saying it shouldn't bother you when people get upset after you go out of your way to upset as many people as possible.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure all of your examples have come from exploited natives and not moralist defenders.

[Port blood]

You spend all your time pushing your morals and expect people to object to it?

I'm not saying he's right, I'm saying it shouldn't bother you when people get upset after you go out of your way to upset as many people as possible.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure all of your examples have come from exploited natives and not moralist defenders.

Okay,I think we're having several discussions mixing here,I'm splitting off the forum destruction thing from this thread

[Drop Your Pants]

Please stop categorizing all defenders as moralists. Yes, it's an excellent selling point to get new people invested in the cause, but we're not all in the "le raiders are el diablo 4 rlz!"

It's his fall back point in almost every topic