The Imperium of Ceirien: Going right!

[Lord Ravenclaw]

I see. Do they have alliances with any major powers in the game, including any feeders or sinkers?

To my understanding, nothing formal.

Good. Otherwise that will be another poorly designed GP newspaper.

[Getti]

Ceirien, under current definitions of raiderism, are raiders. They work with raiders, their leadership are raiders in other raider orgs. They raid, and support raid operations. I am just clarifying that. I am not affiliated with Ceirien.

[Ambrella]

You're going to find yourself blackballed by the international community. You're certainly blackballed by Europeia.

I maintain my prior remark. Once your 10 seconds of fame from this pass, hopefully you will have a change of heart.

[Ivo Mullur]

I do hope that you've informed your region well about your decision, as well as the reason why Festavo left. There is no reason for the rest of Ceirien to follow their leader blindly.

Also, I've noticed on your RMB that you and your future Minister of Foreign Affairs are considering actively attempting to seek relations with GCR's. Given that four of them were involved in the operation in NSR, could you clarify what these relations may be like and how well you'd gauge your success in doing so, not counting how you've pledged "to give [your] total support, and [to] fully cooperate with the right wing, and with regions such as the Greater German Reich and Nazi Europa"?

[Marelius]

I have to ask this: Who are you and why do you matter? I've never heard of either you or this region you claim to be part of. All I'm seeing is a wall of text that doesn't actually tell me anything I want to know about why you've apparently being working with people abhorred across NationStates.

So a TL;DR version please?

Perhaps actually bothering to read the wall of text would tell you something.

I do hope that you've informed your region well about your decision, as well as the reason why Festavo left. There is no reason for the rest of Ceirien to follow their leader blindly.

Also, I've noticed on your RMB that you and your future Minister of Foreign Affairs are considering actively attempting to seek relations with GCR's. Given that four of them were involved in the operation in NSR, could you clarify what these relations may be like and how well you'd gauge your success in doing so, not counting how you've pledged "to give [your] total support, and [to] fully cooperate with the right wing, and with regions such as the Greater German Reich and Nazi Europa"?

Of course i've taken liberty in notifying the region, via both chat and telegram. I think i've made it quite clear that i do not intend to deceive anyone. I'm very straightforward about this.

The relations we'd potentially seek with the Pacifics would not be of a military kind, but rather a friendly tie. I very much realize the complications this brings with our support of the right wing, but if the people of the region eventually decide that they wish myself and the Ministers of Foreign and Diplomacy to attempt this, then we shall.

[Drop Your Pants]

I see. Do they have alliances with any major powers in the game, including any feeders or sinkers?

Some of their members are also TBR members which is how they're known.

[Consular]

So to finally clear up as to what direction Ceirien will be taking, and what i will be working for in the future. We will give our total support, and will fully cooperate with the right wing, and with regions such as the Greater German Reich and Nazi Europa.

An unfortunate decision.

Something you'll find is that the road you're taking is very polarising. Good luck.

[Cormac Stark]

<Wall of text to rationalize working with Nazis>

Considering you're harboring the forum destroyer Shadoke, color me unsurprised that you're willing to work with Nazis. But thank you for providing the reason that most regions will no longer associate with you, since harboring a forum destroyer wasn't cutting it.

Now, are The Black Riders still harboring Marelius or anyone in Ceirien that is working with Nazis?

[Shadoke]

<Wall of text to rationalize working with Nazis>

Considering you're harboring the forum destroyer Shadoke, color me unsurprised that you're willing to work with Nazis. But thank you for providing the reason that most regions will no longer associate with you, since harboring a forum destroyer wasn't cutting it.

Now, are The Black Riders still harboring Marelius or anyone in Ceirien that is working with Nazis?

People should stop harboring someone who can't make up his mind

[Ambroscus Koth]

Hey Cormac! My region is harboring Shadoke, Syl, Zaolat, and many more! You should come bash me too!

EDIT: not stealing thunder, just pointing out that there's an obvious logic error in C's logic here

[Zenya]

Genuinely disappointed with who Ceirien has chosen to align themselves with. You'll find few friends in TCB.

[Marelius]

<Wall of text to rationalize working with Nazis>

Considering you're harboring the forum destroyer Shadoke, color me unsurprised that you're willing to work with Nazis. But thank you for providing the reason that most regions will no longer associate with you, since harboring a forum destroyer wasn't cutting it.

Now, are The Black Riders still harboring Marelius or anyone in Ceirien that is working with Nazis?

Hey Cormac! My region is harboring Shadoke, Syl, Zaolat, and many more! You should come bash me too!

EDIT: not stealing thunder, just pointing out that there's an obvious logic error in C's logic here

Nah, GP just likes to bash things without even knowing what bugs them. It's sort of like a pack reaction. You see others doing it so you join in on the fun. Not saying it's wrong, i do it all the time, just pointing out what's happening.

Genuinely disappointed with who Ceirien has chosen to align themselves with. You'll find few friends in TCB.

For what it's worth i've got nothing against TCB. Genuinely like the region. Sadly our paths separate here. Who knows, they might meet again one day.

[Consular]

Nah, GP just likes to bash things without even knowing what bugs them. It's sort of like a pack reaction. You see others doing it so you join in on the fun. Not saying it's wrong, i do it all the time, just pointing out what's happening.

On the contrary, we know exactly what bugs us. It's your decision to associate with Nazis. It seems like a pack reaction because most of the NS world is united in their opposition to extreme right groups. You need only look at operations like Anne Frank to see this, where organisations that are actually at war willingly cooperate against far right invaders. Nobody is jumping on a bandwagon just because it's fun, though I can understand why it might make you feel better about your decision to belittle your future opposition.

You should not be surprised if the UIAF becomes significantly more hostile to your region in the future.

[Xoriet]

Nah, GP just likes to bash things without even knowing what bugs them. It's sort of like a pack reaction. You see others doing it so you join in on the fun. Not saying it's wrong, i do it all the time, just pointing out what's happening.

Don't associate all others with the lemming trend.

Similarly expressed opinions of a person or situation are not always a part of a bandwagon phenomenon. A personal trend does not completely apply to the entirety of Gameplay and their choice of post material.

The fact of the matter is that you have made a choice which invokes strong responses. People know perfectly well what "bugs them" about this decision, and I'm surprised if you don't know why this is. You've chosen to ally with a near-universally condemned group, one which tends to inspire natural opposition, so there is a perfectly natural fallout to anticipate.

Wasn't the entire point of this to make Ceirien stand out from the dozens of other new organizations headed by raider kids? Congratulations, you've succeeded - for the moment. Enjoy the attentions while they last, if that was your intent in the first place.

[Cormac Stark]

People should stop harboring someone who can't make up his mind

Forum destruction = almost universally condemned, including by interregional law (the Convention on Off-site Property Security).
Side switching = aggravating to some, hilarious to others.

Guess which one is more serious!

I can take criticism from a lot of people but forum destroyers, not so much.

[Marelius]

Nah, GP just likes to bash things without even knowing what bugs them. It's sort of like a pack reaction. You see others doing it so you join in on the fun. Not saying it's wrong, i do it all the time, just pointing out what's happening.

Don't associate all others with the lemming trend.

Similarly expressed opinions of a person or situation are not always a part of a bandwagon phenomenon. A personal trend does not completely apply to the entirety of Gameplay and their choice of post material.

The fact of the matter is that you have made a choice which invokes strong responses. People know perfectly well what "bugs them" about this decision, and I'm surprised if you don't know why this is. You've chosen to ally with a near-universally condemned group, one which tends to inspire natural opposition, so there is a perfectly natural fallout to anticipate.

Wasn't the entire point of this to make Ceirien stand out from the dozens of other new organizations headed by raider kids? Congratulations, you've succeeded - for the moment. Enjoy the attentions while they last, if that was your intent in the first place.

I was pointing out how literally no one has been able to actually explain their hate for the right. All i got is"they suck, we hate them, we'll hate you, dont do it "

[Aurum Rider]

I was pointing out how literally no one has been able to actually explain their hate for the right. All i got is"they suck, we hate them, we'll hate you, dont do it "

I think you'll be very hard pressed to find anyone who will have difficulty explaining why they dislike people that use the name of a group that killed over 21 million people.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

ITT: "Pure blooded raiders".

[Marelius]

I was pointing out how literally no one has been able to actually explain their hate for the right. All i got is"they suck, we hate them, we'll hate you, dont do it "

I think you'll be very hard pressed to find anyone who will have difficulty explaining why they dislike people that use the name of a group that killed over 21 million people.

That's extremely hypocritical. And that's an overstatement. The nazis killed about 12 million. Much less than the ussr or china.

[Corvus Corax]

I think you'll be very hard pressed to find anyone who will have difficulty explaining why they dislike people that use the name of a group that killed over 21 million people.

That's extremely hypocritical. And that's an overstatement. The nazis killed about 12 million. Much less than the ussr or china.

That's extremely Hypocritical. And that's an overstatement. The Question here is how many thousand nativedoms we all can crush before eyes of the defenderist hypocrisy.

RP right-wing if you have to for notoriety, but your real enemy will be always those who only speak about defending, not doing it in practice, from Right or left. Crush them all!

Proceed!

[Louisistan]

I think you'll be very hard pressed to find anyone who will have difficulty explaining why they dislike people that use the name of a group that killed over 21 million people.

That's extremely hypocritical. And that's an overstatement. The nazis killed about 12 million. Much less than the ussr or china.

The Nazis did so in a span of 12 years and they did it in an unprecedented factory-like way. Have you seen the inside of a Nazi Concentration Camp?
It it the factorised Genocide that's so abhorrent about the Nazis. And the fact that this Genocide was so deeply rooted in their ideology. If someone chooses to "roleplay" them, he should not be surprised if others "roleplay" that they want nothing whatsoever to do with that.

And as for the "but others do it as well" part: I feel the same way about groups on NS that identify themselves with Stalinism or North Korea. Still, the ideology of Socialism does not have anything to do with Genocide. National Socialsm on the other hand was always about racial genocide. And that's why almost nobody wants any part of that.

Sincerely,
A German

[Consular]

I think you'll be very hard pressed to find anyone who will have difficulty explaining why they dislike people that use the name of a group that killed over 21 million people.

That's extremely hypocritical. And that's an overstatement. The nazis killed about 12 million. Much less than the ussr or china.

How exactly is that hypocritical? Do explain.

I love that your justification essentially boils down to "hey, other people were arguably worse". Really holding the moral high ground there.

[Marelius]

Not attempting to hold the moral high ground. Simply saying that there's no difference in RPing as a bloodlustful raider and a bloodlustful german soldier. You can't hate on one but go "meh" about the other. I get a pat on the back if i crush seventy regions in one update, but if i join GGR in a raid of a bolshevik region i suddenly lack moral. All killing is hideous, and all groups that do it are awful or broken people. But apparently it's ok that various medieval tribes and kingdoms raped and pillaged, a couple times on gargantuan scales. I'd get no shit if i RPed a Ottoman theme, even though they committed atrocities in three continents on a large scale through centuries. Who gives a shit about a crusader region, who's religion says it's kewl to slay an entire city of people because they believe in a different fairy. So many regions themed after awful nations who did so many bad things, but for some reason GP chooses allof them are peachy. And while national socialism stands for genocide, fascism does not. So please, sorry that i don't understand yoyr hypocritical logic.

[Consular]

There is a huge difference between playing the game as a generic bad guy (a raider), and associating yourself with a group from real life responsible for genocide.

All killing is indeed hideous, but raiders have never advocated killing. They play the game in an entirely in game way, they purge regions and ban people sure, but such acts are not comparible to killing. Nazis on the other hand were murderers and playing as them invokes that terrible legacy.

You should stop conflating nazis with German soldiers, it does a disservice to the Germans who were not nazis. You aren't supporting Germans by helping the GGR, you are supporting people who specifically advertise themselves as nazis. You can say fascism does not stand for genocide, but the nazis did, and again you are helping regions that are unashamedly nazi.

And finally, I have never once said it's OK to be a crusader or any other of your examples. I regard stalin, Mao, etc as all horrible and as such dislike communist themes based on them. They don't get off free, laz actually received criticism for its maoist theme. So where have I been hypocritical, exactly? I'd also note a distinction between a generic communist theme, and a specifically nazi one.

[Marelius]

If people didn't get away with RPing as other horrid leaderships, GP would hate on the majority of regions, instead of just the right wing. However, we can clearly see a double standard here. You say raiders don't kill people. Guess what, neither does GGR or NE. They RP wars, just like raiders rp slaugtherfest battles. The only difference is that people don't care to connect the dots and realize it's the same. Pretty much no one in the right wing is an actual neo nazi who would call for death. So how are raiders, who RP pillaging and tauns, different from nazis who do the same with a different flag?