[PASSED] On Expiration Dates

[A mean old man]

"If it effects only international trade, it is an international issue. If it effects both international trade and internal trade it is not an international issue because of the internal trade component. Do the citizens of your nation not understand the difference between international issues and national issues?

I see you have now come to recognize that there is an international component to the resolution, somewhat contradicting what you seemed to believe before. That does not bother me; it at least keeps the debate moving in new directions rather than spinning in circles like many I have seen before.

Some internal issues really are matters of international concern. The World Assembly is a body organized to address certain international as well as internal issues for the benefit of all nations involved. By imposing certain regulations on all of its member nations it can indirectly aid the collective whole. Nations that cry the "national sovereignty" case on an issue so harmless and collectively beneficial as charging any distributors of goods that spoil to inform the consumer of when those goods will spoil might as well not bother with such an assembly in the first place.

"Furthermore it is not necessary to take every single detail to actually make this proposal some-what worthwhile. If it were limited to international trade, we would not have any opposition to it. We probably wouldn't support it, but we wouldn't oppose it.

It's good to finally and clearly see what your exact grievance is with the resolution. Unfortunately for you, the resolution is not limited as such, and therefore I can only assume that you will maintain your position against it. The majority of other WA members that we have heard from so far seems to disagree with you, however.

"I would love to see evidence of the existence of such a nation. I would dearly love to see a nation that doesn't have the sovereignty to mandate that its producers of food, hygienic and medical products do this or that. I will not hold my breath while you go and try and find such a nation...they simply do not exist.

You must be an island nation. An empire such as mine has seen many things over the history of its existence, and can assure you that one can hardly travel across a few borders in a region so large as The Pacific without finding a miserably managed nation that could use a lot more order imposed by its government and many fewer freedoms donated to its private sector. Leave your bubble and take a look at the outside world; not all governments maintain a certain level of common sense or moral decency.

Where it is not the WA's place to enter these nations with force and make their governments reform every single one of their horrible policies, it is of our concern to have them improve certain aspects of their existence when it concerns the basic and inalienable rights of their citizens and concerns our own economic stability.

Congratulations. Not everyone else in the world is quite so fortunate.

"True only in the sense that not everyone else in the multiverse is fortunate enough to be Monikian. That said, all nations are capable of establishing their own laws. Including laws mandating expiration dates on any product regardless of what it is."

Not all choose to do so, and therefore it is our place to see that they do for the protection of their own population and for the protection of our own populations.

[Monikian WA Mission]

Faliksa Albertron cleared her throat.

"First we are not an island nation. We are an interstellar empire spanning some 20 star systems with a total of 48 populated planets (Type 14[s], Type 12[s], Type 16 and Type 17). As a space faring species we are well aware of the multiverse around us, and find it insulting that your, did you call yourself an Empire, would view us as some small pathetic collection of primitive sapients.

"Second we are aware of poorly managed nations. However, we do not view that it is the WA's business to mandate a specific set of social development for all nations. Were we to hold such a view we might draft such proposals as mandating the legalization of all intoxicants for all adults within WA nations. I think many would find that unacceptable for their nation, whereas its perfectly acceptable for Monkiah.

"Third, I've yet to be convinced that this is an international issue. If trading with a poorly managed nation that is "incapable of" or "chooses not to" enforce common sense standards for the health and safety of their citizens the easiest and least intrusive way to prevent their mismanagement from damaging your economy is to simply not trade with them. We have yet to see a good argument for this legislation which is also practically unenforceable, but we'll get to that in a moment.

"Fourth, I would imagine that any species that has evolved to the point of sapience is perfectly capable of determining using their own senses, primarily sight and smell, to determine if a product is indeed spoiled. If they could not, then the species would have probably died out before it became sapient to start with.

"Fifth, as this proposal is currently poorly written. We question the wisdom of requiring expiration dates on such things that would be covered under this resolution like Oscillators. A device we routinely use in oscillating infants for their proper development. Machines such as these do not become 'spoiled' they merely break and it is difficult to predict when a machine of this type would break, unless the purpose of this resolution is to enforce planned obsolescence of some type.

"Sixth, we question the enforceablity of these two clauses:

CHARGES any distributor of any necessity to attain an accurate and average prediction of how long each and every necessity that they distribute will last until it degrades to a level of quality at which it will directly "lead to the deprivation of any sort of bodily activity that is required for the extension of [one's] lifetime,"

and

FURTHER MANDATES that any recipient(s) of a necessity be provided with the information on how long the exact necessity that they are receiving lasts by the distributor of said necessity.

"Both are dependent on information the producer or distributor may not know, perhaps cannot know barring belonging to a telepathic species. The point at which a product degrades which can spoil is dependent on the storage conditions. Fresh Sloth Spleen for example if it is kept at a temperature under 0 Celsius can be stored up to six Terran months. But at temperatures greater than 15 Celsius spoils in a matter of hours.

"So unless the distributor plans on also including detailed instructions on how to store the product in question they cannot give an accurate average on the 'life' of the product.

"Seventh, that many nations support this resolution does not mean it is a good resolution. A nation with a history as long as you claim should understand that sometimes very bad laws make it into the books, hence the need for a repeal.

"Over all we are not convinced this is a good proposal and must oppose it. It is primarily on the poor construction of the proposal itself and the fact that it does not limit itself to an actual international issue (international trade) that we must oppose it.

"Finally, nations that strongly favor national sovereignty are vital to this body. They are vital in preventing the WA from becoming a tyranny."

[Parti Ouvrier]

Abstain

Diplomat for the DRPO

[Vervada]

I don't know if this has been said already, as I don't really have the time to read 7 pages of content, but I have one issue with this proposal, which is the fact that expiration dates are required only at the point at which the "necessity" becomes harmful - or at least, that is my interpretation. However, in many cases things - particularly medicines or vitamin supplements - just become inactive. While inactivity will not necessarily harm a person, the product is no longer serving the desired function. Therefore, things like vitamin supplements would not have expiration dates, since vitamin supplements will never become harmful from sitting on a shelf. Rather, they become inactive over time due to the breakdown of vitamins and so are not providing the supplementation they advertise. I know that vitamins are not the only product to do this, but rather I use them as an example for why the wording of this resolution does not fulfill what I believe should be required criteria for an expiration date.

[TheStonedSurfers]

"Dude, like, we totally vote in favor of this proposal cause, like, it totally will help keep people safe." The delegate from the Nomadic People's of the Stoned Surfers paused a moment before continuing, "But, seriously, though, like, is it within the scope of the WA, dude? Like, isn't this something that could totally be handled at the national level, brah? I mean, we totally agree with it, like, but wonder if at the same time it's not entirely the best, like, use of the WA's time and power, dude."

[Norcoke]

The citizens of Norcoke have bombarded my office with over a dozen calls demanding an explanation as to how this is a resolution to reduce income inequality, and business owners have been asking me what kind of penalties they would face and who would they have to bribe if they were to happen to get caught lying about expiration dates. These fine upstanding business owners have given me a briefcase to give as a gift to -- and these are their own words -- "Spread the wealth and reduce income inequality between us friends."

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Abstain, because we are concerned that including best before dates may lead to increased waste: however if this proposal doesn't cover that we may reconsider this positively.

[Pugway]

Pugway votes against this resolution as another unnecessary meddling in the internal affairs of sovereign nations. This body seems to be overstepping itself in seeking to legislate the smallest details of every nation.

[Reimu]

Voted against. Even if I supported the reduction of income equality I fail to see how this'd help in that matter.

This is a worthless waste of the WA's time.

[YellowApple]

The Nomadic Peoples of YellowApple will be voting in favor of this legislation. The awareness of an expected useful lifetime of a product is vital to being fully informed about the product.

However, there seems to be little mentioned regarding the cost of extensive testing required to generate such reports. Although this is perfectly feasible in YellowApple, which already performs government-run testing sessions to calculate lifecycle expectancies, we are concerned that "third-world" nations will have difficulty in performing such tests, and thus complying with such legislation.

We request an investigation regarding inexpensive and efficient testing procedures prior to this General Assembly resolution taking effect, so that businesses and nations with lower quantities of capital may be informed of such procedures and not be burdened with excessive additional costs to selling and/or exporting goods.

[Whiskey Hill]

Pugway votes against this resolution as another unnecessary meddling in the internal affairs of sovereign nations. This body seems to be overstepping itself in seeking to legislate the smallest details of every nation.

This is an extreme way to put our position. Though we feel that this is a good thing, we feel it is better suited to national regulation than international.

[Oliver the Mediocre]

I would like to share an opinion of this proposal, written by a citizen of Europeia. I have edited it slightly for content, as the language used was, at times, inappropriate for this body. I have altered it as little as possible.

First, if you're going to have a law governing expiration dates, it should apply to manufacturers, not distributors. If you want, go ahead and impose liability on everyone in the chain of commerce, but imposing primary responsibility on someone besides the manufacturer is foolish. This flaw is great enough to justify a "no" vote, if only so this fellow will think harder next time.

Expiry is far from the greatest threat to the safety of food and medicine. Indeed, companies have a strong incentive to manage inventories (excess inventory = idle assets), so there are incentives not to provide expired goods apart from safety. By contrast, other safety measures are in conflict with manufacturers' desire to minimize cost; those are more appropriate areas for extensive regulation.

A court interpreting this law probably wouldn't hold manufacturers liable if consumers are injured by expired products, provided those products are labelled as required by law. This is a bad idea. Manufacturers should be liable for foreseeable misuses of their products; if expiry presents an unavoidable risk in some cases that wouldn't be obvious to an average consumer, the manufacturer should have a duty to warn. So, this law might actually reduce safety rather than increasing it.

I find myself in agreement with the assessment provided here, and will likely vote against, unless the general opinion within Europeia changes drastically.

With warm regards,
Dr. George Orson
Council of Mediocrity World Assembly Office

[Equinoxian Aisli]

We see no benefit in regulating this at an international level. This appears to be an entirely national matter.

This would be my opinion on the matter as well.

[Jedi Utopians]

Against. I'm already fielding calls from various lawyers back home pointing out the many glaring loopholes related to product testing, especially where this resolution doesn't specify the rigors of such testing. To wit: what the [place reserved for damaged entities] does "accurate and average prediction" mean? We Jedi are known for our prowess in determining future events and the idea of "average" prediction is completely non sequitor, to say nothing about "accurate predictions" which are hard enough to come by. And assuming the language here is intended to be something along the lines of "accurately determine the average timespan of usefulness of an item" by means of some scientific testing, again I would mention the lawyers who have told me with some unnerving consistency, that "average timespan" has no legal basis for determination, and therefore, any "Use this product by (date)" would be wild speculation rather than scientific truth and suits against companies for inaccurate dates would go nowhere in our court system.

Thus, I'm inclined to agree with previous misgivings brought up by the esteemed Mousebumples delegation that this is stretching into specifics when generalities haven't been set down yet.

Finally, not to be petty, but quotation marks around one's own text? Is that sarcasm or are you quoting something or someone else which we are all supposed to be aware of? And [one's]? Is this translation error, or just sloppy writing? Wait--was this resolution drafted by the Region of Sion, because it must be a joke.

[ACKJVR]

Against. I am not against the idea of this bill. I think it is important to have expiration dates. But I do not like how this proposal applies only to "the necessities of life". There are many other products that are not "necessities" but if used after a certain date will be harmful. An example of this is makeup. I think that this proposal should include all things that could cause harm, not just the necessities of life.

[A mean old man]

Against. I am not against the idea of this bill. I think it is important to have expiration dates. But I do not like how this proposal applies only to "the necessities of life". There are many other products that are not "necessities" but if used after a certain date will be harmful. An example of this is makeup. I think that this proposal should include all things that could cause harm, not just the necessities of life.

DEFINES, solely for the purposes of this resolution, a "necessity" as any item which is intended for organic consumption and/or an item that, if it was not in proper condition or if it was not functioning, would lead to the deprivation of any sort of bodily activity that is required for the extension of any organism's lifetime,

[A mean old man]

Finally, not to be petty, but quotation marks around one's own text? Is that sarcasm or are you quoting something or someone else which we are all supposed to be aware of? And [one's]? Is this translation error, or just sloppy writing? Wait--was this resolution drafted by the Region of Sion, because it must be a joke.

Welcome to real-life text formatting. The text is quoting a clause used earlier within the resolution. If you replace words in an original quote with something else or add words to it, you put brackets around them. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about when you obviously do not.

[ACKJVR]

But still, it might cause severe pain or disfigurement, but it does not lead to the deprivation of activities necessary for continued existence or for extended existence. Also, it might not be consumed organically, such as mascara which is placed over dead hair.

[Brodegstein]

Why do we need to legislate this? The capitalist system can take care of this quite easily.

[A mean old man]

Why do we need to legislate this? The capitalist system can take care of this quite easily.

Not when it is allowed to run rampant without any sort of governmental limitation.

[YellowApple]

After a review of the terms of this Resolution, the Nomadic Peoples of YellowApple are withdrawing their collective vote and abstaining, due to the lack of clarity regarding affordability of implementation and upon whom the burden of maintaining such a law is to be laid.

[A mean old man]

After a review of the terms of this Resolution, the Nomadic Peoples of YellowApple are withdrawing their collective vote and abstaining, due to the lack of clarity regarding affordability of implementation and upon whom the burden of maintaining such a law is to be laid.

It is up to the producer/distributor of the necessities being sold to attain an accurate prediction of how long their product lasts; their own resources are going into finding the information on their own products, as is right.

[YellowApple]

After a review of the terms of this Resolution, the Nomadic Peoples of YellowApple are withdrawing their collective vote and abstaining, due to the lack of clarity regarding affordability of implementation and upon whom the burden of maintaining such a law is to be laid.

It is up to the producer/distributor of the necessities being sold to attain an accurate prediction of how long their product lasts; their own resources are going into finding the information on their own products, as is right.

We aren't concerned about nations and corporations with sufficient capital to perform the testing required to adhere to the terms of this Resolution. We are concerned about the nations and businesses that do not. With no direction on how to efficiently determine product lifetimes with minimal expenditure of capital, smaller companies and "third-world" governments will be sacrificing a greater proportion of capital to remain in compliance with international law than large corporations and well-developed nations.

[Jankenjin]

We see no benefit in regulating this at an international level. This appears to be an entirely national matter.

This would be my opinion on the matter as well.

And it is also the opinion of the Triune Republic of Jankenjin. Seriously, as well meaning as this legislation no doubt is, what possible reason is there for the WA to be bothering with it? Cannot nations manage their own affairs on such petty matters?

Yasushipa Toruhayashipa,
Ambassador Plenepotentiary,
Triune Republic of Jankenjin

[General Disdain]

The infallible Archbadass of The Disputed Territories of General Disdain is in willful opposition of this legislation. He believes it uses WA 'power' ineffectively to undermine a national issue. Economic regulation is the responsibility of the corporations and possibly the individual governments. Seeing as how General Disdain is steeped in the glorious tradition of Anarchy, it needs no such regulation. In fact, Wiskers, our WA representative, was appalled by this bill's level of intrusion. I'm not even sure why we have a WA representative, but Wiskers has been interested in international affairs ever since he was a wee kitty. One mustn't stifle the dreams of even the smallest of cats or the corruptest of business ventures.