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[PASSED] Repeal "Missing Minors Database"

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Darenjo
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[PASSED] Repeal "Missing Minors Database"

Postby Darenjo » Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:48 pm

(OOC) Current Plan: Submitting after New Year's. Happy Holidays everyone!

So far: Submitted twice - first time it was removed upon my request, 2nd time it made it to quorum but then fell below again and expired.

UPDATE 12/26/2010: Submitted for third time.

UPDATE 12/29/2010: Just so everyone knows, Mahaj has a replacement in the works.

The General Assembly,

APPLAUDING the intent of Missing Minors Database, and believing in the guaranteed safety of minors,

BUT ACKNOWLEDGING several flaws with the resolution, including that:

1. It does not count as "kidnapping" cases where abductors, with the purpose of harm, coerce or deceive minors into voluntarily attaching themselves to said abductor;

2. It requires alerts regarding all missing minors be broadcast in "all available media", leaving confusion and differing opinions regarding whether privately-owned media is affected, and it does not allow for limitation of more-frequent alerts to within a certain radius of where the minor was last seen;

3. Further, it requires that "all border crossings [and] transportation hubs" and "all...legal enforcement authorities," everywhere in the nation, be sent an overwhelming mass of notifications about every missing minor in the nation, including runaways;

4. It counts runaway minors as "abducted", ignoring the differences between cases in which a minor is forcibly taken against their will, and cases where a minor chooses to leave of their own volition;

5. It forces nations to expend law enforcement resources towards the locating and apprehension of said runaways, who may not wish to be found and may have good reasons for leaving their family's home, then does not attempt to address the issues behind the runaway's choice to leave the home;

6. It suggests that, upon a minor's return to their family, the case be considered "resolved" and no further action is pledged or required to ensure the minor's and community's continued safety, including possible prosecution of a minor's abductor;

7. It requires needless paperwork in cases in which a parent or guardian wishes to travel across international borders with a minor and without the other parent or guardian, and does not expound requirements in cases where a minor has more than two parents and/or legal guardians;

REALIZING that "Missing Minors Database", despite its laudable intent, is a highly flawed resolution,

The General Assembly hereby repeals "Missing Minors Database".

Co-authored by Quelesh
Last edited by Sedgistan on Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:57 am, edited 17 times in total.
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Eireann Fae WA Mission
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Postby Eireann Fae WA Mission » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:39 pm

"This probably isn't the best thing for my job security, but I support this repeal. I would also like a fifth caveat of the existing legislation brought up - the fact that it gives governments the right to take over privately owned media outlets." Melošina returns to her seat, but Alexandra, smiling, adds a quick joke. "You guys will even get Rowan and Episky back!"
Last edited by Eireann Fae WA Mission on Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Erythrina
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Postby Erythrina » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:13 pm

I support this, and cast an Irresistible Sexual Attraction Spell upon its author!
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Postby Grays Harbor » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:48 pm

We could support this repeal.
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Holy Roman Confederate
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Postby Holy Roman Confederate » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:54 pm

We support this to the fullest extent possible.
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78531
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Darenjo
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Postby Darenjo » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:05 pm

Eireann Fae WA Mission wrote:"This probably isn't the best thing for my job security, but I support this repeal. I would also like a fifth caveat of the existing legislation brought up - the fact that it gives governments the right to take over privately owned media outlets." Melošina returns to her seat, but Alexandra, smiling, adds a quick joke. "You guys will even get Rowan and Episky back!"


I don't think I could add a phrase exactly like that.
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Kriegpanzer WA Embassy
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Postby Kriegpanzer WA Embassy » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:57 pm

From what I've picked up while lurking in months past, mentioning the act to be repealed is okay. Be kind of silly if you couldn't..."This resolution repeals resolution X. I can't actually give you the name of the resolution, but it will be repealed."

I agree that MMPA was unnecessarily micro-managing on the part of the WA but simply putting, "AND BELIEVING that "Missing Minors Protection Act" is an unacceptable overreach of WA authority" doesn't seem like it would fly. In any event, I would support the repeal as it is now.

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Quelesh
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Postby Quelesh » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:18 am

I obviously support a repeal of that resolution, but a few quibbles:

Darenjo wrote:APPLAUDING the authors of Missing Minors Protection Act for bringing this issue to the floor of the World Assembly,


The final passed version of that resolution was called "Missing Minors Database," not "Missing Minors Protection Act."

Darenjo wrote:1. It does not count as "kidnapping" cases where minorsyoung citizens, through their own ignorance, willingly attach themselves to anabductorother person of their own free will;


We don't consider that to be "kidnapping" either.

Darenjo wrote:2. It creates unnecessary and potentially catastrophic roadblocks by forcing investigation teams to get permission to cross international borders, wasting time and increasing the chance of losing the abducted minor;


Any law enforcement from one nation should have to obtain permission before entering the territory of any other nation. Should we be required to allow law enforcement, possibly armed, from another nation into Quelesian territory without prior permission?

This requirement to obtain permission before crossing international borders was one of the few things about MMD that were perfectly reasonable.

Darenjo wrote:4. Once a minor is recovered and returned to the family, the case is considered completed and no further action is pledged or required regarding the minor's safety or in trying to diverge what caused a minor to run away from the family;


The case it not necessarily considered completed, but MMD "urges" nations to consider it resolved, which, in the case of actual abductions, is a definite flaw in that resolution. Also, "diverge" is not the right word to use here. "Determine," perhaps? Or "resolve"?

I agree with the rest of the repeal. I also agree with the new ambassador of the Eireann Fae that something should be said about the clause of MMD that requires private media to broadcast alerts. That clause is pretty outrageous, and the more good points you make in your repeal the better (it'll help draw support from NatSovers).

Another flaw with MMD is that it requires the notification of every law enforcement authority and border crossing in the nation about every missing minor anywhere in the nation, which is ridiculous.
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Charlotte Ryberg
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Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:18 am

Ms. S. Harper would support the repeal.

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Postby Doomiedoomiedoom » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:36 pm

Quelesh wrote:Another flaw with MMD is that it requires the notification of every law enforcement authority and border crossing in the nation about every missing minor anywhere in the nation, which is ridiculous.


The ambassador does present a point. Be sure to throw that in there, somewhere.

Also,
Darenjo wrote:(I'm not sure if I'm allowed to reference MMPA - this is my first repeal)

Yes, you are allowed to reference the law you are attempting to repeal in the repeal itself.
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Postby Socialist States Owen » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:32 pm

We would support this repealment.
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Postby Knootoss » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:59 am

Knootoss supports a repeal but.... <Aram grabs a pen>

Darenjo wrote:The General Assembly,

APPLAUDING the authors of Missing Minors Protection Act for bringing this issue to the floor of the World Assembly,

ALSO APPLAUDING the intent of Missing Minors Protection Act, and believing in the guaranteed safety of minors,

BUT NOTICING several flaws with the aforementioned resolution, including that:


RECOGNIZING the safety of minors to be of the utmost importance,

BUT REALIZING that "Missing Minors Protection Act" is too flawed to adequately protect minors, as:


1.It does not count as "kidnapping" cases where minors, through their own ignorance, Minors may willingly attach themselves to an abductor of their own free will; Minors may choose to live outside the parental home;

2. It creates unnecessary and potentially catastrophic roadblocks by forcing investigation teams to get permission to cross international bordersThe act introduces unnecessary international bureaucracy for investigation teams, wasting time and increasing the chance of losing the abducted minor;

3. It counts runaway children as abducted minors, ignoring the differences in cases where a minor is taken and those where a minor chooses to leave on their own;

4. Once a minor is recovered and returned to the family, the case is considered completed and no further action is pledged or required regarding the minor's safety or in trying to diverge what caused a minor to run away from the family; The act neglects post-abduction care;

The General Assembly hereby repeals "Missing Minors Protection Act".


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Zeltros WA Mission
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Postby Zeltros WA Mission » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:44 am

We support a repeal, and find the alterations by Knootoss to be valid.
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Darenjo
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Postby Darenjo » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:42 pm

Okay. I can see the reasoning behind que's remarks, but, seriously, all this will do is repeal the resolution. It doesn't really matter what language is behind it unless you promise a replacement.
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Celestial Sphere
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Postby Celestial Sphere » Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:49 pm

Though surely a better argued repeal has more chance of succeeding?

We would support this repeal if Quelesh's comments are taken on board, and the proposal updated accordingly.
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Darenjo
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Postby Darenjo » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:05 pm

Celestial Sphere wrote:Though surely a better argued repeal has more chance of succeeding?

We would support this repeal if Quelesh's comments are taken on board, and the proposal updated accordingly.


True enough.
I'll incorporate SOME of que's ideas (based on how much que may or may not end up a co-author) tomorrow.
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Knootoss
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Postby Knootoss » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:51 am

Aram is displeased.

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Quelesh
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Postby Quelesh » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:24 pm

Specific recommendations | removed wording in strikeout | additions in red | <my comments in blue>:

The General Assembly,

APPLAUDING the authors of Missing Minors Database for bringing this issue to the floor of the World Assembly, <There's really only a need for one APPLAUDING clause>

ALSO APPLAUDING the intent of Missing Minors Database, and believing in the guaranteed safety of minors,

BUT NOTICINGACKNOWLEDGING several flaws with the aforementionedat resolution, including that:

1. It does not count as "kidnapping" cases where minors, through their own ignorance, willingly attach themselves to an abductor of their own free will; <Again, we don't consider this kidnapping either, and, like runaways, it shouldn't be included>

2. It creates unnecessary and potentially catastrophic roadblocks by forcing investigation teams to get permission to cross international borders, wasting time and increasing the chance of losing the abducted minor; <One of the few reasonable parts of MMD>

3. It counts runaway childrenminors as abducted minors, ignoring the differences inbetween cases wherein which a minor is taken against his or her will and those wherecases in which a minor chooses to leave on theirof his or her own volition;

2. It forces member states to expend often scarce law enforcement resources towards the location and apprehension of said runaways, who do not wish to be found and may have good reasons for running away;
<This was one of the things that we opposed most about MMD>

3. Further, it does not attempt to address the issues that may have caused said runaways to leave their families' homes; <This is where your "diverge what caused a minor to run away" language ended up>

4. It suggests that, even in the case of a genuine abduction, uponOnce a minor's is recovered and returned to thehis or her family, the case isbe considered completed"resolved," with no mention of the abductor's prosecution or of any other and no further action is pledged or required regarding to ensure the minor's continued safety or in trying to diverge what caused a minor to run away from the family;

5. It requires needless paperwork in cases in which a parent or guardian wishes to travel across international borders with a minor;
<This is another clause of MMD that I don't like; people take their offspring across international borders all the time, and often it's only one parent or guardian that's doing so>

6. Further, it is ambiguous about the requirements which must be met in the case of said minor having more than two parents or guardians; <Someone else brought this up, but it's a good point. MMD says that if one guardian wants to take a minor across the border, she must get an "authorized notice," whatever that is, from "the other" guardian. What if there are five guardians? Which one does she need this notice from? All of them?>

7. It requires that alerts regarding all missing minors be broadcast in "all available media," even if said media is privately owned, and it does not limit this requirement to a single medium or to media within a certain radius of where the minor was last seen; <I actually just noticed something about this. The "alert system" that the clause in question requires to involve broadcasts across all available media is actually run by RHSA (a WA committee) rather than by each individual nation (read the "hereby establishes" clause of MMD, which says that RHSA will create and maintain the alert system). It doesn't authorize national governments to take over private media; it authorizes a WA committee to take over private media. Also, all media is very broad, requiring TV news, newspapers, websites, magazines, books, bulletin boards, etc., to all have these alerts. And, since it doesn't even specify that "all available media" only means all media close to where the minor was last seen, it requires broadcasts in media across the country as well.>

8. Further, it requires that "all border crossings [and] transportation hubs" and "all [...] legal enforcement authorities," everywhere in the nation, be sent an overwhelming mass of notifications about every missing minor in the nation, including runaways; <This is another huge flaw; in a large nation, the number of notifications going out to every police station, border crossing and "transportation hub" everywhere in the nation would be truly staggering; there's no way they could keep up with them all, and the overwhelming majority would be from too far away to be relevant anyway, unless there's some reason to believe that the minor is there. Nevermind that it also includes notifications of runaways.>

RECOGNIZING the safety of minors to be of the utmost importance, <There's also only a need for one conclusion cause, and "the safety of minors" has already been "applauded" earlier.>

BUT REALIZING that "Missing Minors Database," despite its laudable intent, is tooa highly flawed to adequately protect minorsresolution,

The General Assembly hereby repealsREPEALS General Assembly Resolution #120, "Missing Minors Database"."


Without all the editing markup:

The General Assembly,

APPLAUDING the intent of Missing Minors Database, the safety of minors,

BUT ACKNOWLEDGING several flaws with that resolution:

1. It counts runaway minors as abducted, ignoring the differences between cases in which a minor is taken against his or her will and cases in which a minor chooses to leave of his or her own volition;

2. It forces member states to expend often scarce law enforcement resources towards the location and apprehension of said runaways, who do not wish to be found and may have good reasons for running away;

3. Further, it does not attempt to address the issues that may have caused said runaways to leave their families' homes;

4. It suggests that, even in the case of a genuine abduction, upon a minor's return to his or her family the case be considered "resolved," with no mention of the abductor's prosecution or of any other action to ensure the minor's continued safety;

5. It requires needless paperwork in cases in which a parent or guardian wishes to travel across international borders with a minor;

6. Further, it is ambiguous about the requirements which must be met in the case of said minor having more than two parents or guardians;

7. It requires that alerts regarding all missing minors be broadcast in "all available media," even if said media is privately owned, and it does not limit this requirement to a single medium or to media within a certain radius of where the minor was last seen;

8. Further, it requires that "all border crossings [and] transportation hubs" and "all [...] legal enforcement authorities," everywhere in the nation, be sent an overwhelming mass of notifications about every missing minor in the nation, including runaways;

REALIZING that "Missing Minors Database," despite its laudable intent, is a highly flawed resolution,

hereby REPEALS General Assembly Resolution #120, "Missing Minors Database."


I've spent this time working towards the repeal of a resolution that does not affect my nation in any way; people should be grateful. :P
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Eireann Fae WA Mission
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Postby Eireann Fae WA Mission » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:48 pm

Quelesh wrote:I've spent this time working towards the repeal of a resolution that does not affect my nation in any way; people should be grateful. :P


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Last edited by Eireann Fae WA Mission on Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Darenjo
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Postby Darenjo » Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:59 pm

Wow maybe Que should be main author.

I'll re-organize the proposal.

If you want, Que, you can be main or co-author. Just let me know.


One thing though, about the first clause that you want taken out, I'm referring to the "hey i have some candy i'll give it to you if you get in my car" thing that happens A LOT. Legally being a child/minor myself, I'm not too eager to get rid of that particular clause. I realize that you may not consider it kidnapping, but I, as an OOC person and as a NS nation, do.
Last edited by Darenjo on Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Travda
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Ex-Nation

Postby Travda » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:38 pm

Eireann Fae WA Mission wrote:"This probably isn't the best thing for my job security, but I support this repeal. I would also like a fifth caveat of the existing legislation brought up - the fact that it gives governments the right to take over privately owned media outlets." Melošina returns to her seat, but Alexandra, smiling, adds a quick joke. "You guys will even get Rowan and Episky back!"

As well as wanting to repeal the resolution on genuine legal and ethical principles, the prospect of having dear Rowan and her Faerie companion back in our Assembly is reason enough to support the appeal.

...Not that we don't also enjoy the company of Alexandra and Melošina.
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Quelesh
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Postby Quelesh » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:45 am

Darenjo wrote:Wow maybe Que should be main author.

I'll re-organize the proposal.

If you want, Que, you can be main or co-author. Just let me know.

One thing though, about the first clause that you want taken out, I'm referring to the "hey i have some candy i'll give it to you if you get in my car" thing that happens A LOT. Legally being a child/minor myself, I'm not too eager to get rid of that particular clause. I realize that you may not consider it kidnapping, but I, as an OOC person and as a NS nation, do.


I'm perfectly okay with being co-author, since you wrote the original draft. You could make the last line "Co-authored by [nation=short+noflag]Quelesh[/nation] though so there will be a link. :D

Also, if you want to keep that first clause, I'd like it to be reworded. How about:

1. It does not consider to be an abduction a case in which a kidnapper, for the purpose of harming the minor, deceives or coerces the minor into coming with them voluntarily.


I think that makes the point quite well without maligning minors as ignorant.

Also, when I said that I don't consider such cases to be kidnapping, I was thinking of a teenager (because I know a lot of nations consider teenagers to be minors) going with someone of their own volition, not being tricked. In the case you describe (free candy, etc.) there's a false pretense, an active deception, and the real intent is to harm them in some way. I wasn't considering that kind of case. Tricking or coercing someone into going with you under false pretenses is kidnapping.

OOCly, in the real world (well in America at least, where I've looked up the data on), stranger abductions of children really don't happen very often at all; it just seems like a lot because they're so widely reported.
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Linux and the X
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Postby Linux and the X » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:53 am

Quelesh wrote:OOCly, in the real world (well in America at least, where I've looked up the data on), stranger abductions of children really don't happen very often at all; it just seems like a lot because they're so widely reported.

This is another problem I would recommend pointing out : by mandating such wide publication of kidnappings, people may feel overly concerned about risk.
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Darenjo
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Postby Darenjo » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:20 pm

Okay I'll redo the first clause based on Quelesh's suggestion.

Linus, I realize that may happen, but that can happen with ANYTHING. If anyone wrote a repeal to CoCR, then they could use that as a point ("The WA had to do something about it, so our rights must be in danger...OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT!!! ¡VIVA LA REVOLUCIÓN!").
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-Bederich-
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Ex-Nation

Postby -Bederich- » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:46 pm

I think this is a very good idea to repeal "Missing Minors Data Base", it is very flawed and I would urge that a better version of "Missing Minors Data Base" be drafted. So I would support the repeal.

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