PASSED: Condemn NAZI EUROPE

[Scarsaw]

The Federation of Scarsaw wishes that the Evil Conservative Empire of The Palentine reveal how they found out about our decision technique with sheep. We find the fact that they know of such a secret practice concerning, and we are now worried that they know, and reveal, the other 'activities' we do with our sheep.

I'm not liking the sound of this....

You have nothing to fear, as we care DEEPLY for our sheep. We highly encourage all your sheep to visit the Federation of Scarsaw and see for themselves how FAR, FULL and DEEP our love for sheep is.

[Kandarin]

This resolution is somewhat misleading and confusing. The Nazi ideology is as odious as they come, and if they wanted to specify some more vague concept of National Socialism beyond the specific famous form expressed in early 20th-century Germany, they really should have called their region something else. Despite this, it doesn't seem that the region in question has actually done anything significant to spread their ideology or force it on others. Quite the opposite - it collects most of the Nazis in the game in one place while they would otherwise be troublesome elsewhere.

I am not basing this assessment on the content of the Resolution itself. I believe in the right of resolution writers to refer to broad events in broad terms rather than meticulous detail, valuing the appearance of the resolution if passed over its efficiency on the voting floor. Rather, I base this assessment on not hearing anything significantly bad about these people in years of tuning in to NS events, save for the occasional small-time raid or small-time piggybacking on larger raids. If passed, this resolution won't inform viewers of Nazi Europe of any misdeeds or even general bad attitudes and bad policies of Nazi Europe itself. Rather, it will simply tell them what they probably knew already - that Nazism is a bad thing. I'm against this, although my actual vote will wait on comments from my constituency.

[Mad Sheep Railgun]

The Federation of Scarsaw wishes that the Evil Conservative Empire of The Palentine reveal how they found out about our decision technique with sheep. We find the fact that they know of such a secret practice concerning, and we are now worried that they know, and reveal, the other 'activities' we do with our sheep.

I'm not liking the sound of this....

You have nothing to fear, as we care DEEPLY for our sheep. We highly encourage all your sheep to visit the Federation of Scarsaw and see for themselves how FAR, FULL and DEEP our love for sheep is.

Careful what you wish for. Our sheep are coated with steel wool and infected with rabies.

[Scarsaw]

Careful what you wish for. Our sheep are coated with steel wool and infected with rabies.

The Federation only believes that this might add to the enjoyment in the activity.

[Upper Macronesia]

Nazism BAD!!! National Socialism ok idea just leave out world war, genocide, etc.....

[The Great Lord Tiger]

The unnamed Tigerian representative chuckled as he glanced at the numbers again.

Votes For: 1,737

Votes Against: 655

"You know, this is why people shouldn't be allowed to vote without first debating the matter," he said in a bored but amused voice. "Poor wording no longer stops delegate votes -- 'I'm voting for it, even though it's poorly worded.', says the good representative from Anastasiburg. What was it that I heard earlier?" he asked rhetorically, ignoring the water flooding into his area. "Ah, yes: People see 'condemn' and 'Nazi' in the same sentence, and blindly vote for it. A pity they are so short-sighted."

[Aundotutunagir]

Being a decent and upright Urgenchi the elderly Khan cannot refuse the General's invitation to take Opium and so he reaches out his hand to him.

"A pipe of Opium sounds like a marvelous idea, I have some tincture of Bengen with me perhaps you would care to imbibe of some also, it compliments Opium quite nicely in my experience." Mongkha says as he rather akwardly disappears into the bowels of the miniature submersible.

Once inside, Mongkha is astounded to discover that the (surprisingly spacious) interior of the submersible has been re-decorated to resemble a Berlin nightclub, circa 1933. Cigarette smoke fills the air, along with smoke from other, more exotic sources. The crew, rather than being dressed in standard Aundotutunagirian naval uniforms, are dressed in an odd assortment of tuxedos and rather dashing (and tightly-fitting) black uniforms. Strangely, the young men in tuxedos appear to be wearing makeup and have their hair slicked back in a decidedly un-Aundotutunagirian manner. Jazz music is playing softly in the background. One of the tuxedo-clad youngsters walks over to Mongkha and smiling, offers him a pipe.

Having secured the hatch, General Arororugul climbs down the ladder and barks orders to the helmsman.

"The bridge is clear. Pressurize the boat. Down fifteen, ahead half. We must find and monitor Senator Sulla's vessel. I believe from his comments earlier he means to do harm to the Cobdenians.

Turning to Mongkha, he says: "Now Mongkha, as I said earlier I have been studying this national socialism. It is a marvelous philosophy and I feel it will fit well with our programme in Aundotutunagir. I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter. I have managed to get my hands on archival materials detailing the history of Germany in the Land Of RL.

"Watch this."

Mongkha is forced to sit through (while smoking opium, mind you) 3 hours of Leni Riefenstahl films.

"Well, what do you think?"

[Ardchoille]

I believe the Romanian massages where one is trod upon by a tame bear are the best. I find them quite exhilarating.

Unobtrusively though magically suspended a discreet 3cm above the surface of the flood, Walter Arbuthnot extracts a small gold pen and makes notes in a leather-covered pocket notebook (Basildon Bond, cream-laid, 25% cotton paper).

* Notify Bears Armed ambassador re apparent ursine sex slave trade in Aundotutunagir.

* Condemn Aundotutunagir? NB arson, sex slavery, world domination bid?

* Vote /proposal At Vote

Replacing the notebook in an inner pocket, he steps to the podium, negligently sketches an uneven invoking pentagram and remarks: "The Often Coherent Caucus of Ardchoille votes against this proposal on the grounds of terminological inexactitude and insufficient information."

With a slight upturning of the lips that could indicate satisfaction, he again extracts the noteback and puts a small tick against one of his notes.

[The Second Alexander]

I think that having a region called "Nazi Europe" is in poor taste due to all of the death and destruction that they caused during World War II, BUT there is a little thing called Freedom of Speech, which, while protecting your right to critisize things, it also allows them to say whatever they want, no matter how offensive it might be.

[Community Property]

Having done his duty, he promptly passes out, exemplifying the WA at its finest.

IC: Ambassador, the best cure for drunkenness is to observe a drunk person while sober. You should be ashamed of yourself, insulting the 'dignity' of this institution with behavior such as this.

Would you care for some opium? It is of the finest Urgenchi stock and more fitting for a man of your station than this...this..Wild Turkey.

OOC: Hello CP, where have you been? This is Yelda.

OOC: This is Ambassador Jackson, Yelda. He has no dignity, remember?

I'll probably RP his recall soon ... once I think up someone even better to replace him with. Between now and then, I'll have to have Tom the Janitor (the Party Commissar within the WA Embassy, for those who never figured it out) give him a fatherly talking-to.

[Quintessence of Dust]

OOC: It's a CP! :O

Ok, I definitely have to get involved in this RP now.

[Qumkent]

Being a decent and upright Urgenchi the elderly Khan cannot refuse the General's invitation to take Opium and so he reaches out his hand to him.

"A pipe of Opium sounds like a marvelous idea, I have some tincture of Bengen with me perhaps you would care to imbibe of some also, it compliments Opium quite nicely in my experience." Mongkha says as he rather akwardly disappears into the bowels of the miniature submersible.

Once inside, Mongkha is astounded to discover that the (surprisingly spacious) interior of the submersible has been re-decorated to resemble a Berlin nightclub, circa 1933. Cigarette smoke fills the air, along with smoke from other, more exotic sources. The crew, rather than being dressed in standard Aundotutunagirian naval uniforms, are dressed in an odd assortment of tuxedos and rather dashing (and tightly-fitting) black uniforms. Strangely, the young men in tuxedos appear to be wearing makeup and have their hair slicked back in a decidedly un-Aundotutunagirian manner. Jazz music is playing softly in the background. One of the tuxedo-clad youngsters walks over to Mongkha and smiling, offers him a pipe.

Having secured the hatch, General Arororugul climbs down the ladder and barks orders to the helmsman.

"The bridge is clear. Pressurize the boat. Down fifteen, ahead half. We must find and monitor Senator Sulla's vessel. I believe from his comments earlier he means to do harm to the Cobdenians.

T

urning to Mongkha,e says:s: "Now Mongkha,s I saiaid earlier I have been studying this national socialism. It is a marvelous philosophy and I feel it will fit well with our programme in Aundotutagir. I would d like to hear your thoughts on the matter. I have managed to get my hands on archival materials detailing the history of Germany in the Land Of RL.

"Watch this."

Mongkha is fced to o sit through (while smoking opium, mind you) 3 hours of Leni Riefenshl f films.

"Well, what do you think?"

OOC sorry for posting in the wrong account before, a bit confusing, I'm not the wizard of puppetry you are

IC.



His body pleasantly numb and his mind swimming with images of half naked aryans and mass rallies Mongkha is in the mood to be expansive.

"Noble General, consider this, you and I are of the same stock as Atila and Genghis, our ancestors fought every race on earth and conquered them. Where ever the hooves of our horses have trod we have been masters. The treasures of every great civilisation reside in Tabriz and trophies from all over Eurasia adorn the museums of Golthaindroror and Karakorum. We peoples of the steppe are the epitome of the pitiless warrior.

My understanding of Nazism as it existed in the mythical world of RL is that it was a barbarian solution to a barbarian problem, by which I mean we steppe peoples would never encumber ourselves with the mindless and self destructive ideologies of racism and ethnic nationalism. Why persecute any particular race or ethnicity when one can be the master of all races by honest warfare of the kind waged by Tengri Khaghan or that waged by the redoubtable Khans of Aundotutunagir who were harrowers of Kievan Rus ?

Bah! The whole business of National Socialism reeks of that particluarly european disease namely Nationalism itself. To you and I the petty ambitions of a minor state mean little or nothing at all, a state crippled by the inability to draw upon the loyalty of every single citizen within it is also meaningless. To waste such effort and such resource in human life in the business of attempting to destroy whole sections of a state's citizenry is criminal for so many reasons but not least because a state cannot pretend to be a power in the world if in order to do so it must commit a holocaust of its own people.

Urgench is the mightiest nation earth not because it demands the deaths of any of its people, it is the mightiest nation on earth because its people devote their lives to it by their own desire. This is why we hold philosophies such as National Socialism in such low regard, it is a depraved and backward society's pathetic rationalisation of its desperation and moral and social decay. Urgench is neither decayed nor desperate and is the most progressive place I have ever known. The people of Aundotutunagir are people of steppe, this ugly Teutonic barbarian depravity is beneath them and would dishonour them. Though I must admit the uniforms are rather dashing." Mongkha takes a long draw on opium pipe as an aundotutunagirian young man administers bright blue drops of tincture of Bengen in to his eye with a long pipette.

[Ardchoille]

OOC: It's a CP!

Ok, I definitely have to get involved in this RP now.

(note modhat) Just make sure, folks, that we drop in at the little village of Movethevotealong occasionally. This thread is for explaining why the SC should or shouldn't condemn Nazi Europe. Please bury a nugget of argument on that topic somewhere in the RP puddings.(/modhat)

[Iron Felix]

OOC: It's a CP!

Ok, I definitely have to get involved in this RP now.

(note modhat) Just make sure, folks, that we drop in at the little village of Movethevotealong occasionally. This thread is for explaining why the SC should or shouldn't condemn Nazi Europe. Please bury a nugget of argument on that topic somewhere in the RP puddings.(/modhat)

*Throws the entire Ardchoillean delegation out the window.*

edit: *(While encouraging everyone to vote against this absurd condemnation.)*

edit again: I hate how my avatar looks. Might have to change flags.

[Ardchoille]

*Throws the entire Ardchoillean delegation out the window.*

IC: *With minimalist magic gesture, Walter Arbuthnot executes graceful parabola in midst of descent, rises unhurriedly to waterlogged SC chamber, resumes diplomatic functions.

Notes tally:

Votes For: 1,875

Votes Against: 868

Sighs. Starts new list in notebook. Scribbles "Iron Felix" thoughtfully at top.*

OOC: Not that easy, Felix. Just don't let's overwhelm the non-RPers, 'kay?

[Georgetpwn]

[serious]the resolution will pass. get over it people.[/serious]

[Ardchoille]

I would like to explain to the Georgetpwn ambassador that the reason I and some of my ambassadorial colleagues are complaining about the level of the vote is that we are concerned about the precedents we are setting.

One concern is that the proposal condemns on the basis of the nation's ideology, rather than on the basis of its deeds.

Another is that voters appear to be confusing the ideology of an imaginary nation in the fictional "Real World" with the ideology of an actual nation present in these here NationStates.

My own concern is that the wording of the Condemnation is insufficient, in that it neither defines the ideology we are supposedly condemning, nor offers examples of the ill-effects of the region in question pursuing that ideology.

We deeply regret that success for this proposal will establish by precedent that a nation or region may be condemned on very little evidence and that said condemnation may be based on what it thinks, not what it does.

-- Walter Arbuthnot, Engineer Primus of the Hermeneutical Order of the Shattered Fourth Rampart and Ardchoillean representative in the Security Council.

[Georgetpwn]

RL example: if so, then Germany must legalize the Nazi party because they silence them over their ideology.

the nazis are horrible for what they did, and for what they advocate, they deserve to be banned in Germany and elsewhere.
but in America, we can't do that. it's against the 1st amendment.

we must show that a ideology of hate, genocide, and racial cleansing must never be tolerated anywhere, even in NS.

that's why the people vote yes, and why we vote yes.

[The Great Lord Tiger]

Are we so wrong to ask that the representative from Georgetpwn actually read the text of the Resolution -- what little there is of it -- and come to the logical conclusion that the real-life Nazi party, as usual, does NOT apply to NS; you even contradict yourself, citing the freedom to expression, and then saying that you must act as the righteous word of All That Is Correct to smite these evil people because of the name they chose -- which disavows that same freedom.

While I voted against this resolution because it is simply stupid (with absolutely no IC reasoning at all), there is a very good point to be made in arguing that censorship be denied.

[Epicnopolis]

I will vote against it. We cannot tell the people to be free.

[Georgetpwn]

and yet they still advocate murder of Jews, Gypsies, and barring immigrants from entering countries...

[The Great Lord Tiger]

and yet they still advocate murder of Jews, Gypsies, and barring immigrants from entering countries...

THEY DO IN REAL LIFE.

IN CHARACTER (IC), WHAT HAS THIS REGION DONE? NOTHING. NOTHING AT ALL, MAKING THIS RESOLUTION A MOCKERY OF THE SYSTEM.

[Georgetpwn]

really?

Geheime Staatspolizei Führer - The Unwilling Fascists of The Christian Reich
Reichsmarshall - vacant
Schutzstaffelführer - The German Lebensraum of Nazi Occupied Europe
Reich Minister Volksaufklärung und Propaganda - The All consuming mosh pit of THE POED METALHEDZ

they use the offensive numbers

14/88

to express their racial views.

why use such symbols?

[The Great Lord Tiger]

really?

Geheime Staatspolizei Führer - The Unwilling Fascists of The Christian Reich
Reichsmarshall - vacant
Schutzstaffelführer - The German Lebensraum of Nazi Occupied Europe
Reich Minister Volksaufklärung und Propaganda - The All consuming mosh pit of THE POED METALHEDZ

they use the offensive numbers

14/88

to express their racial views.

why use such symbols?

Great.

So... again, what does this have to with in-character? Or are you saying that you would ask the police to arrest someone for having Nazi memorabilia in their house? Yeah, you probably would, at that.

[Georgetpwn]

So... again, what does this have to with in-character? Or are you saying that you would ask the police to arrest someone for having Nazi memorabilia in their house?

doesn't anyone know what they did...

[serious]the resolution will pass. any attempt to repeal it will fail. if it is repealed, i will resign from the WA.[/serious]