[PASSED] Medical Research Ethics Act

[The Ainocran Embassy]

i did point it out earlier in the thread, days ago

[The Eternal Kawaii]

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

We are somewhat skeptical of this proposal, mostly because we fail to see any real enforcement of its mandates. Each "Institutional Review Board", which is supposed oversee the ethical validity of medical research in a nation, is wholly a creation of that nation's government. What is to keep a nation from, for example, staffing their IRB with chimpanzees and rubber stamps (and trust us, we know of several nations who would do just that), and declare that to be compliance?

[Ddreigiau]

We [The Democratic Republic of Ddreigiau] are wholly in support of the premise behind the Act in question, however, because of the wording of minor clauses, we must vote against. We currently conduct psychological evaluations of POWs (as well as our own returning troops), in order to research the effects of combat upon the psyche and further Ddreigiau's psychological sciences and treatments for trauma-induced mental illnesses. While this is ethical in all forms of the word, except in that it is done without their permission, it currently falls under the clause prohibiting research on POWs. Were this resolution to pass - as it appears will happen - it would prohibit a large majority of our ongoeing research on these individuals - err... that is, should we capture enemy combatants.
Were the clause dealing with POWs worded "medical experiments" instead of "medical research", then this resolution would receive our nation's whole-hearted approval and compliance.

Thus we vote against.

[Manticore Reborn]

We [The Democratic Republic of Ddreigiau] are wholly in support of the premise behind the Act in question, however, because of the wording of minor clauses, we must vote against. We currently conduct psychological evaluations of POWs (as well as our own returning troops), in order to research the effects of combat upon the psyche and further Ddreigiau's psychological sciences and treatments for trauma-induced mental illnesses. While this is ethical in all forms of the word, except in that it is done without their permission, it currently falls under the clause prohibiting research on POWs. Were this resolution to pass - as it appears will happen - it would prohibit a large majority of our ongoeing research on these individuals - err... that is, should we capture enemy combatants.
Were the clause dealing with POWs worded "medical experiments" instead of "medical research", then this resolution would receive our nation's whole-hearted approval and compliance.

Thus we vote against.

My government would care to point out to the ambassador from The Democratic Republic of Ddreigiau that under GAR#18, your use of POWs for any medical procedure or mental interrogation is already illegal.

[Glen-Rhodes]

REQUIRES WA member nations to create and regulate an IRB system, or by treaty to create an IRB system in conjunction with other WA member nations for collaborative scientific research efforts, to provide for nations that do not have a high amount of medical research or where establishing an IRB would be prohibitively expensive to the nation.

Does this not compel nation to subsidize or completely provide for the 'IRB' systems of other nations? In addition to that, the way this clause is written could be understood in a way I doubt the author intended (which seems to be a developing pattern). For instance, it could be correctly rewritten as:

REQUIRES WA member nations to provide for nations that do not have a high amount of medical research or nations where establishing an IRB would be prohibitively expensive, by creating and regulating an IRB system.

(The treaty clause has been removed for simplicity, as it doesn't change the meaning.)

In effect, the next clause (FURTHER REQUIRES that any entity within a WA nation...) becomes moot for many nations, because they are not required to establish an 'IRB' system within their own nation. The rest of the clauses also refer to such 'IRB', which means those regulations are moot as well.

Therefore, Glen-Rhodes has voted against this ultimately useless resolution.

- Dr. B. Castro

[Quadrimmina]

REQUIRES WA member nations to create and regulate an IRB system, or by treaty to create an IRB system in conjunction with other WA member nations for collaborative scientific research efforts, to provide for nations that do not have a high amount of medical research or where establishing an IRB would be prohibitively expensive to the nation.

Does this not compel nation to subsidize or completely provide for the 'IRB' systems of other nations? In addition to that, the way this clause is written could be understood in a way I doubt the author intended (which seems to be a developing pattern). For instance, it could be correctly rewritten as:

REQUIRES WA member nations to provide for nations that do not have a high amount of medical research or nations where establishing an IRB would be prohibitively expensive, by creating and regulating an IRB system.

(The treaty clause has been removed for simplicity, as it doesn't change the meaning.)

In effect, the next clause (FURTHER REQUIRES that any entity within a WA nation...) becomes moot for many nations, because they are not required to establish an 'IRB' system within their own nation. The rest of the clauses also refer to such 'IRB', which means those regulations are moot as well.

Therefore, Glen-Rhodes has voted against this ultimately useless resolution.

- Dr. B. Castro

However the honorable ambassador from Glen-Rhodes decides to word it, the treaty provision simply allows small nations to band together to create one IRB system for all of them. We will not force larger nations to provide for them, for that is in our view absurd.

And while nations are not required to create an IRB system of their own, they are required to subscribe to one. "FURTHER REQUIRES that any entity within a WA nation that performs medical research on any individuals must have this research verified as ethical by the IRB to which their nation subscribes. " refers to the IRB system subscribed to. Which is mandatory to do.

Therefore, while we respect your right to vote against, we feel that your reasoning for doing so shows a misunderstanding of the provisions and the mechanisms of this proposal.

[Quadrimmina]

We commend your expertly crafted proposal, good sir, however we think that this legislation already exists in the Assembly's archives. Would the esteemed member please satisfy us that this is not the case? If this is the case, we must regretfully withhold our well-earned support. If this is not the case, we unconditionally offer our support.

Yours;

Dr Ivan Quicksilver

Ambassador Quicksilver, this has not been done before in a previously passed resolution. This resolution has made it to vote before with no legality problem, and has been being debated for roughly 4 months. The closest thing I can think of is GAR#82, regarding clinical trials.

This is the running list of all resolutions. We don't see anything here that would be in the archives. However, feel free to check for yourself.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30

Dr Lewis, I was not doubting the legality of this Resolution, I was simply querying whether this was a duplication or not. By the way, does a resolution which duplicates a previously enacted (and then repealed) resolution make the new resolution illegal?

I don't think it is, for there is no other passed resolution. Also, that is not illegal. Many people do indeed repeal resolutions simply to rewrite them. That is totally legal. I am, however, curious as to how it is relevant for this discussion.

[Cookesland]

Does this proposal only pertain to research on sentient individuals?

Richard York
WA Ambassador

[Glen-Rhodes]

However the honorable ambassador from Glen-Rhodes decides to word it, the treaty provision simply allows small nations to band together to create one IRB system for all of them. We will not force larger nations to provide for them, for that is in our view absurd.

If you think it's absurd, then you shouldn't be trying to make it law. Language actually matters, Ambassador, more than intent.

And while nations are not required to create an IRB system of their own, they are required to subscribe to one. "FURTHER REQUIRES that any entity within a WA nation that performs medical research on any individuals must have this research verified as ethical by the IRB to which their nation subscribes. " refers to the IRB system subscribed to. Which is mandatory to do.

That clause requires research be submitted to an IRB to which a nation subscribes. It does not require the existence of an IRB, it merely assumes it. So, if there isn't one, research need not be submitted.

Therefore, while we respect your right to vote against, we feel that your reasoning for doing so shows a misunderstanding of the provisions and the mechanisms of this proposal.

I understand exactly what you are intending to do. However, your execution is unfortunately fatally flawed, so much so that this resolution will ultimately amount to simply words on paper for nations who don't wish to be bound by its regulations.

- Dr. B .Castro

[Quadrimmina]

However the honorable ambassador from Glen-Rhodes decides to word it, the treaty provision simply allows small nations to band together to create one IRB system for all of them. We will not force larger nations to provide for them, for that is in our view absurd.

If you think it's absurd, then you shouldn't be trying to make it law. Language actually matters, Ambassador, more than intent.

And while nations are not required to create an IRB system of their own, they are required to subscribe to one. "FURTHER REQUIRES that any entity within a WA nation that performs medical research on any individuals must have this research verified as ethical by the IRB to which their nation subscribes. " refers to the IRB system subscribed to. Which is mandatory to do.

That clause requires research be submitted to an IRB to which a nation subscribes. It does not require the existence of an IRB, it merely assumes it. So, if there isn't one, research need not be submitted.

Therefore, while we respect your right to vote against, we feel that your reasoning for doing so shows a misunderstanding of the provisions and the mechanisms of this proposal.

I understand exactly what you are intending to do. However, your execution is unfortunately fatally flawed, so much so that this resolution will ultimately amount to simply words on paper for nations who don't wish to be bound by its regulations.

- Dr. B .Castro

While it is true that that clause does not require the existence of an IRB, this one does:

REQUIRES WA member nations to create and regulate an IRB system, or by treaty to create an IRB system in conjunction with other WA member nations for collaborative scientific research efforts, to provide for nations that do not have a high amount of medical research or where establishing an IRB would be prohibitively expensive to the nation.

Every nation must have an IRB system, whether it be by their own design or by a treaty of multiple nations creating an Intergovernmental IRB.

[Knootoss]

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

We are somewhat skeptical of this proposal, mostly because we fail to see any real enforcement of its mandates. Each "Institutional Review Board", which is supposed oversee the ethical validity of medical research in a nation, is wholly a creation of that nation's government. What is to keep a nation from, for example, staffing their IRB with chimpanzees and rubber stamps (and trust us, we know of several nations who would do just that), and declare that to be compliance?

But you see, it's much better this way! The alternative is a giant, overworked WA agency with gnomes who are tasked to research every research proposal on the planet! Such a monstrosity should not be allowed to exist! As for monkeys being used to staff government agencies, this is not a new thing, and indeed many nations' core services are run by people with the intelligence of monkeys. It seems unfair to set higher standards for their IRBs.

~Aram Koopman
Knootian ambassador to the WA

[Dromund Kaas]

The Imperial Oversector of Dromund Kass feels it is wholly unecessary to impose restrictions on the development of medical science. There are thousands of hardened and depraved criminal and political prisoners with which our research corps could easily put to good use in finding cures for cancer and acne. If only those WA inspectors would stop hovering around our prisons...

[Turtatalia]

Does this proposal only pertain to research on sentient individuals?

Richard York
WA Ambassador

Based on the documents presented before me, I can only but assume so.

- Dr Ivan Quicksilver

[Reimu]

Voting against due to rampant xenophobia and hatred of any kind of ethics.

[Ddreigiau]

We [The Democratic Republic of Ddreigiau] are wholly in support of the premise behind the Act in question, however, because of the wording of minor clauses, we must vote against. We currently conduct psychological evaluations of POWs (as well as our own returning troops), in order to research the effects of combat upon the psyche and further Ddreigiau's psychological sciences and treatments for trauma-induced mental illnesses. While this is ethical in all forms of the word, except in that it is done without their permission, it currently falls under the clause prohibiting research on POWs. Were this resolution to pass - as it appears will happen - it would prohibit a large majority of our ongoeing research on these individuals - err... that is, should we capture enemy combatants.
Were the clause dealing with POWs worded "medical experiments" instead of "medical research", then this resolution would receive our nation's whole-hearted approval and compliance.

Thus we vote against.

My government would care to point out to the ambassador from The Democratic Republic of Ddreigiau that under GAR#18, your use of POWs for any medical procedure or mental interrogation is already illegal.

I never said we were interrogating them, nor that we were performing procedures on them. In fact, I stated that we specifically do not perform medical procedures upon POWs. Are you feeling guilty about something, Ambassador? Perhaps something you would like to share with the rest of us?

[Masucciania]

Fellow Representatives of the General Assembly:

The Confederacy of Masucciania rises in strong opposition to this proposed resolution.

The Medical Research Ethics Act amounts to nothing more than another attempt by adherents of misplaced, do-good internationalism to violate state sovereignty. It is not the role of the World Assembly to dictate to member-state governments how to manage their own internal affairs.

Therefore, the Masucciania delegation shall vote and urge the delegations of the other member-states of the General Assembly to vote "AGAINST" this proposed resolution.

The Confederacy of Masucciania respectfully yields the floor,

[Ethel mermania]

Greetings from Ethel Mermania, a small country with a fondness for broadway musicals


1. We see this as a gross violation of The Peoples Republic of Ethel Mermania (PROEA), national sovereignty. If Fearless leader wishes to experiment with his little playthings our governmental position is that it is within his rights.

2. But the fact of the matter is that Fearless Leader cares greatly about his toys. For example, He leads them everyday in a glorious aerobics’ class to start the day. In the PROEA every medical procedure is logged in the nation’s TARD (The Adverse Reaction Database). All treatments are continually evaluated for cost efficiency and medical effectiveness.. As the outcomes change or not over time our doctors adjust their treatments with the latest medical knowledge at their fingertips. We also introduce new treatments and track their results within the same database to help propagate that knowledge out the clinical community.

The Practice of medicine uses constant medical experimentation and is a fact of life in the PROEA and we believe this enables us to deliver a more accurate and thereby effective medical treatments for the people of the PROEA,


We therefore request the people of the world reject this proposal to infringe upon the sovereignty of every member of this organization.

[Manticore Reborn]

My government would care to point out to the ambassador from The Democratic Republic of Ddreigiau that under GAR#18, your use of POWs for any medical procedure or mental interrogation is already illegal.

I never said we were interrogating them, nor that we were performing procedures on them. In fact, I stated that we specifically do not perform medical procedures upon POWs. Are you feeling guilty about something, Ambassador? Perhaps something you would like to share with the rest of us?

Under Manticorian Law a "psychological evaluation" which your own testimony states you are performing on POWs is a medical procedure and would therefore be illegal. In addition, you stated that you "it is done without their permission" would certainly be unethical treatment of POWs.

[Manticore Reborn]

Greetings from Ethel Mermania, a small country with a fondness for broadway musicals


1. We see this as a gross violation of The Peoples Republic of Ethel Mermania (PROEA), national sovereignty. If Fearless leader wishes to experiment with his little playthings our governmental position is that it is within his rights.

2. But the fact of the matter is that Fearless Leader cares greatly about his toys. For example, He leads them everyday in a glorious aerobics’ class to start the day. In the PROEA every medical procedure is logged in the nation’s TARD (The Adverse Reaction Database). All treatments are continually evaluated for cost efficiency and medical effectiveness.. As the outcomes change or not over time our doctors adjust their treatments with the latest medical knowledge at their fingertips. We also introduce new treatments and track their results within the same database to help propagate that knowledge out the clinical community.

The Practice of medicine uses constant medical experimentation and is a fact of life in the PROEA and we believe this enables us to deliver a more accurate and thereby effective medical treatments for the people of the PROEA,


We therefore request the people of the world reject this proposal to infringe upon the sovereignty of every member of this organization.

From reading your response and having extensive knowledge of the legislation we are no voting on, I believe I can state that your current system would actually fit quite nicely into the system the MREA is attempting to establish. Simply adding a committee to review the data entered into your TARD system would most likely meet the minimum standards required.

[James McCosh]

There is no point in creating some "Board" or whatever - if you want to forbid experiments being done on people without their consent then say that, do not set up a "Board".

It is like the SEC and Bernie M. - "oh it can not be a Ponzi scheme" because everything has been checked out be the SEC.

Setting up a government admin body just makes everyone go to sleep - even in the face of obvious wrong doing.

[Quadrimmina]

There is no point in creating some "Board" or whatever - if you want to forbid experiments being done on people without their consent then say that, do not set up a "Board".

It is like the SEC and Bernie M. - "oh it can not be a Ponzi scheme" because everything has been checked out be the SEC.

Setting up a government admin body just makes everyone go to sleep - even in the face of obvious wrong doing.

Setting up a government admin body does little to oversee, I agree. Making oversight mandatory and keeping IRB's regional and local works well though.

[Turtatalia]

Greetings from Ethel Mermania, a small country with a fondness for broadway musicals


1. We see this as a gross violation of The Peoples Republic of Ethel Mermania (PROEA), national sovereignty. If Fearless leader wishes to experiment with his little playthings our governmental position is that it is within his rights.

2. But the fact of the matter is that Fearless Leader cares greatly about his toys. For example, He leads them everyday in a glorious aerobics’ class to start the day. In the PROEA every medical procedure is logged in the nation’s TARD (The Adverse Reaction Database). All treatments are continually evaluated for cost efficiency and medical effectiveness.. As the outcomes change or not over time our doctors adjust their treatments with the latest medical knowledge at their fingertips. We also introduce new treatments and track their results within the same database to help propagate that knowledge out the clinical community.

The Practice of medicine uses constant medical experimentation and is a fact of life in the PROEA and we believe this enables us to deliver a more accurate and thereby effective medical treatments for the people of the PROEA,


We therefore request the people of the world reject this proposal to infringe upon the sovereignty of every member of this organization.

Sir;

I see from your clearly crafted response that you are concerned with national sovereignty. I must enquire whether your Foreign Minister read the terms and conditions of membership fully before he signed the Agreement of Membership, as, when a nation joins these hallowed halls, they agree to forgo their national sovereignty. I know that this can be irksome, but it is one of the main conditions of joining this body. If you require more information, or if you wish to peruse the terms and conditions, I would suggest you enquire at the Secretariat's Desk.

- Dr Ivan Quicksilver

[Ethel mermania]

Greetings from Ethel Mermania, a small country with a fondness for broadway musicals.

1. We wish to thank the National representatives, Sir. Hamish Alexander, Eighteenth Earl of White Haven and Dr Ivan Quicksilver of Manticore Reborn and Turtaltalia respectively for their learned responses.

2. We do believe we are in non compliance with the act in regards to the requirements individual consent, and tracking of that consent. Our Fearless leader consents, and we, the people, are grateful for his beneficence in doing so.

3. We also do not only do medical research in the “big pharma” fashion. Our individual clinicians are able to form teams to perform research and as long as the protocol is entered in the treatment portion of the TARDbase. There is no large group approving or disproving experimentations. If the outcomes are good, that information is distributed on a weekly basis to all the clinincan’s in Ethel mermania. If the results are bad, well our fearless leader loves his playthings and those that harm them, well let’s say they stop in a state sponsored very painful fashion.

4. As to Dr. Quicksilvers point. No, apparently we missed that part, we saw that proposals passed by the WA are to be implemented within the member states; we did not see abrogation of national sovereignty as one of the terms. The Government of Ethel mermia is a relatively new nation on the planet, only given a location because of its state secret and absolutely marvellous egg salad recipe, “so good you could plotz”. The staff will further research that problem and would be grateful to be pointed towards any reference material that could be supplied by the good Doctor or any other interested parties.

[Quadrimmina]

---Forwarded Message---
Dear Members of the World Assembly,

We at the Republic of Quadrimmina very proud of the passage of the Medical Research Ethics Act as GAR#111 and hope that its provisions bring greater benefits to all nations in the World Assembly, and hope that it serves as an example to the rest of the world. We thank our friends in the World Assembly for their support in bringing this Act to the floor and passing it, especially the delegation from Manticore Reborn, whose tireless efforts made this resolution more adaptable. We look forward to more diplomatic endeavors with this august body.

Jointly Signed,

Ellen J. Forge, Chancellor

Madison H. Powers, Minister of Foreign Affairs

Arlo B. Lewis, Ambassador to the World Assembly

[Dark Side Messiahs]

FROM: The Holy Empire of Dark Side Messiahs
TO: World Assembly
SUBJECT: Medical Research Ethics Act

MESSAGE:
So, I can't use prisoners for blood and organ donation anymore? Com'on!

What if I say no; these people I am using are already sentenced to die, why should they get out of serving their punishment? Why waste the organs of these dregs when they can go to people who will use them to live a productive life? We have cloning technology, I guess we could always clone organs...

Fine, have it your way. Next week we change to public execution by guillotine.


Your Lord and Master

Lord Bubba McCrackin