[DEFEATED] Repeal "Condemn The Pacific"

[Consular]

They're just trying to make this about Cormac as a sort of lateral excuse for why the repeal is failing horribly. It undermines everyone who votes against the repeal by making them seem petty and bypassing their very legitimate reasons for voting against.

[Cormactopia II]

They're just trying to make this about Cormac as a sort of lateral excuse for why the repeal is failing horribly. It undermines everyone who votes against the repeal by making them seem petty and bypassing their very legitimate reasons for voting against.

I'm not sure who you mean by "they," but the reason some believe this is about me is because a Delegate who commands nearly one thousand votes in the World Assembly -- which were pivotal in the early stacking against the repeal -- has said it's about me.

I personally don't believe this is about me, I think that's just a convenient excuse. I expect to see repeal fail again when it's submitted by a different author, and for The North Pacific, et al., to come up with new rationalizations that will, of course, have nothing at all to do with hostility toward the Pacific Order.

[Consular]

I would say that maintaining a hostile attitude towards the New Pacific Order is perfectly healthy really.

[Cormactopia II]

I would say that maintaining a hostile attitude towards the New Pacific Order is perfectly healthy really.

You're deflecting away from the point. Surely you can see how some believe opposition to this repeal is fueled by petty dislike of its author, when the 900+ endorsement Delegate who was responsible for the early vote stack has explicitly said this is about authorship, not about The Pacific.

This isn't being made up out of thin air. Lord Ravenclaw said it was about the author. Deal with that point before moving on to a new one.

[Weed]

If as TNP's delegate said in his statement he'd support a repeal in general, then without Cormac not only would there be almost 1000 less votes against, there'd be 1000 more for. That eats up almost half the gap, and the lemming effect of TNP's stomp could easily make up the difference.

It's not much of a stretch to say this is now largely about Cormac.

Weed

[The Church of Satan]

The Pacific has indeed made reparations and strides toward improving the situation in which it was condemned for

What reparations? Where was I for that part? Was it promoting Pergamon within 48 hours after the coup ended:

Appointment of the People's Prosecutor


In order to facilitate the continued operation of Justice within The Pacific, the Senate has deemed it right and necessary to fill the position of the People's Prosecutor. This office is charged with the day to day operations of the Court and the Praetorian Guard and will be responsible for processing Civil Code violation reports for the Emperor.

Please welcome Pergamon, who has demonstrated loyalty to the ideals of the Order and our way of life. We are hopeful that his service here in The Pacific will be more rewarding than the hand he has been recently dealt elsewhere.

Or maybe it was the part where they canned Feux for failing. I guess I missed the part where reparations were made.
And since when did the NPO care about regional sovereignty? They sure didn't when they decided to try and colonize another GCR. We use words like rights, sovereignty, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a residency spent defending something. The NPO uses them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to entertain silly notions of non-existent reparations.

[DrWinner]

The Pacific has indeed made reparations and strides toward improving the situation in which it was condemned for

What reparations? Where was I for that part? Was it promoting Pergamon within 48 hours after the coup ended:

Appointment of the People's Prosecutor


In order to facilitate the continued operation of Justice within The Pacific, the Senate has deemed it right and necessary to fill the position of the People's Prosecutor. This office is charged with the day to day operations of the Court and the Praetorian Guard and will be responsible for processing Civil Code violation reports for the Emperor.

Please welcome Pergamon, who has demonstrated loyalty to the ideals of the Order and our way of life. We are hopeful that his service here in The Pacific will be more rewarding than the hand he has been recently dealt elsewhere.

Or maybe it was the part where they canned Feux for failing. I guess I missed the part where reparations were made.
And since when did the NPO care about regional sovereignty? They sure didn't when they decided to try and colonize another GCR. We use words like rights, sovereignty, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a residency spent defending something. The NPO uses them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to entertain silly notions of non-existent reparations.

Pray pardon, good sir, but as a citizen of the Pacific, I feel that I must tell you your information on Feux is dead wrong. Feux still maintains an active presence in guiding the region on our offsite forums, and is in fact someone I respect, somewhat. Also, perhaps you shouldn't quote such old events, when the damage done immediately after the event has been undone quite majorly by the reformed NPO government structure.

It does no good for you to claim the events in question, a large part of the reasoning behind the original condemnation (Which we've already proven faulty, here in this thread), as justifiable proof of these 'current evils' you feel the NPO is committing against her people (Who, by the way, wholeheartedly support the NPO), and thus refuse to give the entire Pacific, which consists of not just the nations who had a part in the scandal, way back when, but also numerous nations barely joining us on the international level, barely joining and learning that they will be scorned in the international community for no reason other than their birthregion alone.

[The Church of Satan]

The damage done immediately after the coup was undone by the people of Lazarus. I don't remember the NPO doing anything to make things right, just covering their asses. Whatever changes the NPO have or haven't made to their own organization are irrelevant because they make no difference outside of themselves. The fact of the matter is that they willingly attacked Lazarus for their own selfish reasons. The condemnation needs to stay up so that people will always know the NPO can't be trusted, because they've proven that time and time again over these last few years.

[DrWinner]

The damage done immediately after the coup was undone by the people of Lazarus. I don't remember the NPO doing anything to make things right, just covering their asses. Whatever changes the NPO have or haven't made to their own organization are irrelevant because they make no difference outside of themselves. The fact of the matter is that they willingly attacked Lazarus for their own selfish reasons. The condemnation needs to stay up so that people will always know the NPO can't be trusted, because they've proven that time and time again over these last few years.

"Time and time again" you say. I say, please point out these multiple times, for me, the 'uneducated' supporter of this 'tyrannical regime.'

[Icecream Princess]

They sure didn't when they decided to try and colonize another GCR. We use words like rights, sovereignty, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a residency spent defending something.

Yet the Lazarus of of today was the result of the original Feux coup which had the backing of many defenders. So I'm really not sure how the people of Lazarus can complain about the NPO when many were explicit in purging the region earlier and effectively colonized it after it was turned into a FRA region.

[The Stalker]

To me there is a difference between a GCR dealing with / having a coup and one GCR trying to colonize another GCR.

[The Silver Sentinel]

The damage done immediately after the coup was undone by the people of Lazarus. I don't remember the NPO doing anything to make things right, just covering their asses. Whatever changes the NPO have or haven't made to their own organization are irrelevant because they make no difference outside of themselves. The fact of the matter is that they willingly attacked Lazarus for their own selfish reasons. The condemnation needs to stay up so that people will always know the NPO can't be trusted, because they've proven that time and time again over these last few years.

Precisely. Just because you fed Feux and AMOM to the wolves, doesn't mean all is okay. Krill supported that aggression, yet he is still a high ranking member of the Pacific. He'll even Pier stated his support. Nothing has changed. If you guys didn't want the condemn, why did Krull vote for it?

[Cormactopia II]

To me there is a difference between a GCR dealing with / having a coup and one GCR trying to colonize another GCR.

The initial Feux purge was, by all accounts from their side, essentially stage one of colonization. You can't separate one from the other just because it's convenient for some defenders who participated in stage one to pretend they weren't participating in imperialistic colonization.

The primary difference between them is that defenders are still pursuing colonialism in Lazarus.

[The Stalker]

So by that reasoning, would you say their is little difference to what you've done in Osiris, and what the NPO did to Lazarus?

To me each coup, colonization attempt, what have you, there all different with lots of elements involved, I find the all coups are the same comparison silly, it's apples to oranges.

[Polinasia]

The damage done immediately after the coup was undone by the people of Lazarus. I don't remember the NPO doing anything to make things right, just covering their asses. Whatever changes the NPO have or haven't made to their own organization are irrelevant because they make no difference outside of themselves. The fact of the matter is that they willingly attacked Lazarus for their own selfish reasons. The condemnation needs to stay up so that people will always know the NPO can't be trusted, because they've proven that time and time again over these last few years.

Would you judge a 30 year old man by how he acted 15 years ago?
You clearly don't understand the fact that we have willingly changed and apologized and would like to move on.

[Consular]

The damage done immediately after the coup was undone by the people of Lazarus. I don't remember the NPO doing anything to make things right, just covering their asses. Whatever changes the NPO have or haven't made to their own organization are irrelevant because they make no difference outside of themselves. The fact of the matter is that they willingly attacked Lazarus for their own selfish reasons. The condemnation needs to stay up so that people will always know the NPO can't be trusted, because they've proven that time and time again over these last few years.

Would you judge a 30 year old man by how he acted 15 years ago?
You clearly don't understand the fact that we have willingly changed and apologized and would like to move on.

Depending on what he did, possibly.

Would I judge a 30 year old man by how he acted last year?
Yes.

[Cormactopia II]

So by that reasoning, would you say their is little difference to what you've done in Osiris, and what the NPO did to Lazarus?

There really is no comparison between Feux, et al., or the defenders who supported and participated in stage one of their colonization efforts, and me. Osiris has been my primary home for the better part of four years, nothing I've done in Osiris has been done at the behest of nor to benefit a foreign region or organization nor to further my own position elsewhere instead of benefiting Osiris, and I've put virtually immeasurable time and effort into Osiris during my time in the region.

But enough about me, we're talking about The Pacific, its condemnation, and repeal, which has nothing to do with Osiris or me.

[Polinasia]

Would you judge a 30 year old man by how he acted 15 years ago?
You clearly don't understand the fact that we have willingly changed and apologized and would like to move on.

Depending on what he did, possibly.

Would I judge a 30 year old man by how he acted last year?
Yes.

Clearly you have taken my metaphor way too seriously.
What my standing statement is that don't judge us by a few incidents.

[The Agnostic Collective]

A few incidents is a rather inaccurate way to describe the events that lead to The Pacific's condemnation, but rather, a major clusterfuck.

Considering the fact that major regions host an off-site government, it's also inaccurate to say that a commendation/condemnation judges the residents as a whole, but rather, the regional government or individual(s) in which the acts were perpetrated by.

[Myrth]

I would say that maintaining a hostile attitude towards the New Pacific Order is perfectly healthy really.

Jealousy is an ugly emotion.

[Pierconium]

To address a few points that have come up here and elsewhere:

1. I am a realist. I am well aware that this repeal was not going to pass. I am well aware that the author was a liability from the onset and that there are certain parties that will never let go of the past, regardless of how distant or removed from the actual actions they might be. That said, I did not make up the excuses that were put forward. Within a few minutes of the opening of the vote there was a concentrated effort to 'stack' the vote in the negative, apparently in order to facilitate the so-called lemming effect. This is not in dispute. This happened. Specifically, TNP, TRR, Europeia, and TKI all voted within a few minutes of the opening of the vote. Most of these regions have historically opposed the government of the Pacific, as is their right. But, let's not pretend it was anything other than what it was. It was an attack on the Pacific. A coordinated effort to skew the early stages of this resolution in order to secure its defeat, and it succeeded. Bravo. When I asked the Delegate of TNP about his decision to vote against it he voluntarily informed me that if the same proposal had been submitted by another nation that he would have voted in favor. Now, I do not want to call him a liar, and I guess we will see if a similar resolution is brought forward in the future if he will make the same effort to vote very early in favor, but that is a fact. He said it, not me. Considering the close working relationship this nation has with some of the other early negative voters, one wonders if the same would be true for them? Possibly. Probably not. Regardless, that directly implies that this vote has failed because of the author of the resolution and not because of the merits of the resolution itself. Is that a petty and ridiculous reason to vote against a resolution? I think so. But, that is just my opinion.

2. Our support for the initial Condemnation, as more of an acquiescence than anything else, has no bearing on our decision to support the Repeal. Has it been fun being the only Feeder with a Condemnation badge? Yes and no. Answering Telegrams about it every few days from new nations asking questions certainly isn't the highlight of my daily routine here, but it is something that I am always more than happy to do. Is it a good rallying point for the masses against the very apparent outside threats that seek to destabilize our region? Certainly. I make use of the cards I am dealt, and I always have an ace up my sleeve. So, while we do believe we have made great strides towards a more open community within and have sought to rectify relations with other regions, we will be fine to continue wearing the badge. It is a symbol of the hatred and jealousy so many harbor against what we have worked for within the Pacific for so long. But, we would also be happy to have it removed.

3. Anyone that has known me for any length of time knows a few simple things. I say what I mean, I mean what I say, and I can't be bought with flattery or praise. Some have suggested that this was a means of Cormac getting into the good graces of the Pacific. Anyone that has been around knows that Cormac and I are not friends. A gesture such as this might ingratiate him to the Pacific community as a whole, but I have a memory longer and better than most, and I am not easily fooled. It will take much more than a resolution to convince me. However, that does not change the fundamental principle of the Pacific, that we observe the right of a sitting Delegate in a GCR to support whatever form of government it wishes. So, we support the right of the Delegate of Osiris to change its form of governance. Just as we supported the right of Stujenske to change the form of governance in Lazarus. There is no double standard here. The mistakes that were made in Lazarus were manifold, but our support of the sitting Delegate nation was not one of them. Regardless, as far as I am concerned, the end result of this repeal could have been Cormac's plan all along and you have played right into it. What better way to perpetuate the Condemnation of the Pacific then to have the (currently) most reviled nation among those that would lean against the Pacific anyway propose its repeal? It almost seems too perfect. Good job.

4. At the end of the day the Pacific will be just fine. I have honestly been surprised (if not a little touched) to see several nations that are not part of the government come here and speak out in support of our regional community without solicitation. If anything, the coordinated attack that forced this resolution to failure has benefitted the community of the Pacific. It has solidified our resolve and illustrated to our nations that the rhetoric we put forward is not unfounded, you are out to get us. Thanks for that. It makes my job of keeping the region secure easier and I genuinely appreciate it. We will continue to wear the badge with pride, knowing that we have done all that we can to make things right with the outside world but some parties will always be opposed to our chosen way of life.

5. And finally, just to clarify in case it is not clear from the above, to those that do wish the Pacific ill, we are ready for you. Our nations support our structure and our community, our army has seen an upsurge in interest, and our offsite community is thriving. We welcome all nations that wish to come and take part in what the Pacific Order has to offer, but we will defend what is ours to the very bitter end. I have never given care or concern to the feelings of those that would see my region harmed and I damned well don't intend to start now.

EDITS: Grammar.

[Consular]

I would say that maintaining a hostile attitude towards the New Pacific Order is perfectly healthy really.

Jealousy is an ugly emotion.

Jealousy is actually a reasonably accurate understanding of that attitude, yes. But I suspect you actually meant to use the word /envy/. They are quite different. A person is jealous of something they have but are afraid of losing. A person is envious over something another has that they want. I am jealous I suppose but certainly not envious.

[John Turner]

I would say that maintaining a hostile attitude towards the New Pacific Order is perfectly healthy really.

Jealousy is an ugly emotion.

I personally find it difficult to be jealous of a fascist meritocracy. Horrified is also an ugly emotion, which I would be guilty of when it comes to the Pacific.

[Flanderlion]

Jealousy is an ugly emotion.

Jealousy is actually a reasonably accurate understanding of that attitude, yes. But I suspect you actually meant to use the word /envy/. They are quite different. A person is jealous of something they have but are afraid of losing. A person is envious over something another has that they want. I am jealous I suppose but certainly not envious.

I don't know about jealous or envious, but you do seem scorned somehow. Were you banjected as a new player from here? I'm not sure what caused your hostility, nor how we can work around it. I also don't see why you are invested in the outcome of this resolution.

SS on the other hand, I can understand why you would have a grudge against the Pacific. I don't understand why it only includes certain regions rather than the entire populace of the game that have wronged you in some way though.

[Shinganshina]

o/ Heil Pacifica! Long Live Pierconium!