[DEFEATED] Debt Collection Act

[Potted Plants United]

Ok, I apologise for not posting it beforehand, I realise that was childish, but so was the response it incurred

OOC: What response? You never posted this, the mod had to do it.

[Discoveria]

Sorry for not putting this up for discussion, but, on my part, I was aware of the likelihood of the reception it would get from you lot - and so it has transpired. You're all clearly opposed to the idea anyway, so it wouldn't even have been constructive; there isn't a single piece of advice here.

OOC: This is an obvious but as yet unstated point - but if you expected that we would all be "opposed to the idea anyway", then surely that is a sign that you're not confident in the viability of your proposal? In fact, you deliberately submitted a proposal without letting anyone comment on it, knowing (or suspecting) that the idea wouldn't be strong enough to gather support from most of the forum regulars. That seems profoundly irrational and also disrespectful of the supposedly 'democratic' methods we use here.

EDIT: Didn't mean to sound harsh, but I recognise your nation name from your 'Spacecraft Accountability' draft which you did post. It seemed odd that you didn't post this one since you were already familiar with the drafting process from before.

[United Federation of Canada]

Is anyone mounting an telegram campaign against this drivel? Please let us know so we may assist, or start our own.

We really don't believe we should have to waste 3 days voting on something that will be destroyed on the floor anyway.

[Abacathea]

Is anyone mounting an telegram campaign against this drivel? Please let us know so we may assist, or start our own.

We really don't believe we should have to waste 3 days voting on something that will be destroyed on the floor anyway.

The repeal draft in it's early unpolished stages dear sir

[United Federation of Canada]

Keep going with those campaigns.

Only 14 more delegates need to remove their approval and this travesty falls out of quorum.

[Of the Quendi]

"Honored colleagues may we please be civil?" Lady Malréd requested flashing several ambassadors with cold and condescending gazes concluding by giving the cursing Eireann Fae ambassador a particularly superior glance. Sometimes Lady Malréd could be very much the typical Quendë. "Whatever the diverging opinions this proposal may inspire, to resort to harsh language is entirely uncalled for, especially when the topic of the discussion has drifted away from the actual merit of the proposal to a discussion about the impropriety of it being submitted without due deliberation in this most august assembly." The Delegate insisted.

[Aclany]

I understand the process, and part of my reasons for not posting lay in the harshness directed toward me in when I did so with 'Spacecraft Accountability' that I didn't want to go through again here

[Abacathea]

I understand the process, and part of my reasons for not posting lay in the harshness directed toward me in when I did so with 'Spacecraft Accountability' that I didn't want to go through again here

We've all suffered harshness when we've proposed things on the forum that didnt essentially go down well with the regulars, if you still feel strong enough with it, you push forward with it anyway, but even when regulars are against ideas, there usually is ways to polish what is considered to be a turd. You failed to allow even that much to happen though.

[Of the Quendi]

I understand the process, and part of my reasons for not posting lay in the harshness directed toward me in when I did so with 'Spacecraft Accountability' that I didn't want to go through again here

We've all suffered harshness when we've proposed things on the forum that didnt essentially go down well with the regulars, if you still feel strong enough with it, you push forward with it anyway, but even when regulars are against ideas, there usually is ways to polish what is considered to be a turd. You failed to allow even that much to happen though.

"Though we must concur with the Abacathean Embassy that fear of opposition is no vallid excuse for refraining from following due process, the Quendi WA Embassy and Pardesia WA Delegation would like to reiterate that further debate about the process rather than content of the proposal raised is pointless." Lady Malréd quipped.

[Eireann Fae]

Alexandra meets Lady Malréd's condescending gaze with a cold stare, her hazel eyes locked unmoving on the eyes of the Quendë. The angry adolescent rises to her feet again. "Whatever merit this proposal may have had is irrelevant. We have a pile of raw shit on the voting floor that can't be polished. This prick ignored the proper channels and just flung his shit into the ring hoping enough flies would gather around it. There's nothing we can do to change that. If he wants to call for a drafting forum, that's one thing, but we wouldn't even have a chamber to discuss this in were it not for Bob setting us up here."

Alexandra's eyes narrow as she glares at the delegate. "And if you have a problem with my diplomatic behaviour, Lady Malréd, I suggest you deal with it."

[Auralia]

Opposed, micromanagement.

[Of the Quendi]

Ambassador-Delegate Malréd sighed discreetly as the infantile ambassador of Eireann Fae rose to deliver what appeared conspicuously like a statement intended to provoke a heated response. If there was one thing that set Malréd apart from the rest of her kin it was her refusal to take such a bait and "defend her honor" when disrespected. In that she was anything but Quendi, and unusually for an aristocrat of her age Lady Malréd had never fought a duel, nor did she ever intend to. Certainly not with a girl of an age with her own adopted daughter, still caught between the world of adults and children, uncomfortable and unfit for both.

While it would no doubt strike many as odd that a so high ranking a diplomat, a SMFAWA for one and a half decade, representing a country whose senior most diplomatic officer had yet to attain an age permitting her to drink in many a global jurisdiction would be opposed to very young people serving in official government capacities; yet so was the case. Not so much because Malréd was was locked in a near constant power struggle with the High Representative over policy matters, as because Malréd had witnessed the High Representative overworked and exhausted by responsibilities that ought never had been thrust upon the youth. The thought of her own daughter enduring such hardships rather than enjoy all the pleasure and promise that was for the young could rob the SMFAWA of her much needed sleep.

With yet a sigh Lady Malréd followed the ambassador of Eireann Fae at the floor. "My opinion of your diplomatic behavior, honored colleague, is quite superfluous to the point I sought to advance, and it most certainly is irrelevant for the point of order." The ambassador stated calmly. "To reiterate it; a heated exchange about things that this most august assembly can do nothing to change is pointless." She, admittedly somewhat obstinately, declared.

"My opinion on your, forgive me, absurd remark that the merit of this proposal is irrelevant however is not. Honored colleague, while I would have personally opposed this proposal had it been the most sensible and best written ever presented before me due to the fact that it was not submitted for debate prior to being submitted for approval, it says nowhere in the statute of this most august assembly that a resolution must be debated prior to a vote and the fact that you seem to think otherwise concerns me." The ambassador, doing her utmost to keep her tone as civil and soothing as possible so as to not elicit a temper tantrum from the adolescent, spoke. "Therefore, in the hope that third time's a charm, I ask this most august assembly to discuss the merit of the proposal, not the process by which it came into being. Thank you."

Giving the assembly a light bow of her head Malréd found way to her seat with a third sigh. "I need a drink." She mumbled.

[The Republic of Lanos]

If this passes, I'll simply ask my non-WA to stop doing business with WA nations and urge others to do the same.

Anyone willing to join in?

[The Maynard Islands]

These sort of proposals make being an non-member observer state more and more desirable for the Maynard Islands.

OPPOSED

[Great Nepal]

You could just state that for purposes of this resolution, the property of indivudal who owe debt is under shared ownership between the debtor and indivudal. Hence circumventing whole proposal.

[Of the Quendi]

If this passes, I'll simply ask my non-WA to stop doing business with WA nations and urge others to do the same.

Anyone willing to join in?

"I doubt it. Terminating all commercial enterprises with the largest trade bloc in the multiverse over a resolution that is too vague to impose any change of policy would seem a singularly disproportional response to the DCA." Lady Malréd, surprised and disappointed at the call for a trade war of sorts, replied.

[Cowardly Pacifists]

This is now at vote.

While we may be willing to support an international debtors rights law, this one leaves A LOT to be desired.

For starters, the definition of "lender" given by the act exempts every lender who is not a "loan shark." But a "loan shark" is not defined. We're just supposed to guess what the difference might be...

More importantly, the act does nothing to address the majority of heinous debt collection practices. No where does the proposal even mention harassing phone calls and letters, unscrupulous interest rate hikes, repossessions, and unfair credit reporting practices. It only addresses physical entry into premises for the purposes of "receiving debt payments." So really, all this proposal does is list some circumstances under which a "loan shark" is restricted from entering property to collect debt money. If he's just there to break your thumbs because you didn't pay up, this act doesn't even apply.

Needless to say, that's not much for a proposal that purports to regulate debt collection on an international scale. OPPOSED; and I heartily invite others to join me in rejecting this dreck.

[United Social Slavian Republic]

Why not just allow bank's to get debt by making a Debt Financial tax?
It could be 10% of the debt has to be payed by every month, The Business or Government will foreclose that house?

[Laeriland]

It is a sad day indeed that such pieces of trash are allowed to get to vote.

Laeriland votes nay!

[Zarkanians]

"If admitted into the property by an individual of 18 years or younger (or equivalent age of consent in given nation)."

So hiring a child to open your door for the money-lender would allow you to get out of paying your debts to them?

[United Social Slavian Republic]

We should have a way of collecting debt much better. I say that we do this, instead of The Debt Collection Act we have the "Debt/Loan act" where the people pay their debt over time instead of Damaging the house for they're goods. If we need to take the house we should at-least keep it nice for the next buyer. So I there-for oppose, and wish that a 'Debt/Loan Act" is in place.

[Siu Ming]

I know that debt collection is an important issue...but how is this something the WA should regulate?

[Ranseur]

"How do you validate going into a loan situation where the debtors are not allowed to collect on the terms of the agreement?" Interrupts CEO Ambrose Cornell of Ranseur Transnational. "This is about contract law, obviously. We are only dealing with semantics, it this is the case. A good business doesn't treat its clients poorly, nor does it take contracts that they have no faith that their clients can meet. Those under contract are enslaved to that contract. This is simple logic. Debt is never good and never ends in happiness for one who asked for a loan that they couldn't pay back. If this is about contract law, every country has its own laws regarding this. I mean, in Ranseur, our clients are allowed to pay by any means necessary and are encouraged to be creative in paying off debts. Imprisoning a client who fails to meet the terms of their loan is irrational, unless their value can only be assessed by terms of hours served in our rehabilitative work programs and their issues cannot be solved by our bankruptcy courts."

[Confederated Civilized States]

"Pursuant to the inactivity of World Assembly for not regulating international debts, the Dominion of Confederated Civilized States finds that this proposal is not wrong, but is only incomplete. Please revise, adding the need for international restrictions on governments being indebted to one another economically, and we will endorse this proposal. The WA should see that the citizens of a country should not bear the burden of poor international economic decisions made by their country. Payments of these debts should occur immediately and if they cannot be met monetarily, then they must be met creatively by the indebted country. With this adage, no more governments will borrow against the future of other governments."

[Zarkanians]

"How do you validate going into a loan situation where the debtors are not allowed to collect on the terms of the agreement?" Interrupts CEO Ambrose Cornell of Ranseur Transnational. "This is about contract law, obviously. We are only dealing with semantics, it this is the case. A good business doesn't treat its clients poorly, nor does it take contracts that they have no faith that their clients can meet. Those under contract are enslaved to that contract. This is simple logic. Debt is never good and never ends in happiness for one who asked for a loan that they couldn't pay back. If this is about contract law, every country has its own laws regarding this. I mean, in Ranseur, our clients are allowed to pay by any means necessary and are encouraged to be creative in paying off debts. Imprisoning a client who fails to meet the terms of their loan is irrational, unless their value can only be assessed by terms of hours served in our rehabilitative work programs and their issues cannot be solved by our bankruptcy courts."

"Zarkanians agrees with the sentiments that the ambassador from Ranseur expressed, but again expresses serious concerns about the wording of this piece. There are too many loopholes."