[DEFEATED] Liberate NAZI EUROPE

[Sedgistan]

The Security Council,

NOTING that NAZI EUROPE is one of the oldest remaining fascist regions in the world and that it promotes the insidious ideology of National Socialism by its very existence;

RECALLING that NAZI EUROPE has engaged in numerous acts of unprovoked and unjustified aggression against other regions, including acts of regional destruction;

FURTHER RECALLING the history of hostility toward the World Assembly by the government of NAZI EUROPE;

ACKNOWLEDGING the diplomatic relationship between NAZI EUROPE and The Greater German Reich, another fascist region with a long history of unprovoked and unjustified invasion and destruction of other regions;

OBSERVING that on 5 October 2012 the Delegate of NAZI EUROPE, German Dragons, barred free entry to the region, presumably to protect it from potential invasion;

FURTHER OBSERVING that this tactic has been used many times in the past to protect NAZI EUROPE from potential invasion;

REAFFIRMING the mission statement of the Security Council: "Spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary";

RECOGNIZING that NAZI EUROPE has historically posed a significant threat to interregional peace and goodwill, and seeing no indication that it will cease to pose such a threat in the near future;

DECLARING that the Security Council must be prepared to use the powers at its disposal to allow other regions to respond with the use of force to threats posed to interregional peace and goodwill;

HOPING that the liberation of NAZI EUROPE, thereby permanently restoring free entry to the region, will better enable other regions to respond to threats posed by NAZI EUROPE and its allies;

HEREBY Liberates NAZI EUROPE.

[Neo Arcad]

Reaction.

[Holy Trek]

Because Nazi Europe is an evil fascist regime (and there ARE such things as moderate fascist regimes) with a history of unprovoked aggression against other regions..I have to say 'no' to this.

[Cormac Stark]

Because Nazi Europe is an evil fascist regime (and there ARE such things as moderate fascist regimes) with a history of unprovoked aggression against other regions..I have to say 'no' to this.

I just want to point out that in this case -- possibly for the first time, I'm not sure -- the liberation resolution is openly being used to enable military action. In other words, this proposal would permanently remove NAZI EUROPE's password protection so that other regions can invade it at will given the threat it has posed and continues to pose to interregional peace and goodwill.

[Zimmercia]

Did you really just list reasons why it shouldn't be liberated, and then say it should?

[Neo Arcad]

Because Nazi Europe is an evil fascist regime (and there ARE such things as moderate fascist regimes) with a history of unprovoked aggression against other regions..I have to say 'no' to this.

I just want to point out that in this case -- possibly for the first time, I'm not sure -- the liberation resolution is openly being used to enable military action. In other words, this proposal would permanently remove NAZI EUROPE's password protection so that other regions can invade it at will given the threat it has posed and continues to pose to interregional peace and goodwill.

Way to reveal your secret plan four posts into the thread, Doofenschmirtz. ಠ____ಠ

[The Republic of Lanos]

Given the previous efforts to repeal the first condemnation of NAZI EUROPE, I wonder how this whole thing will end up in the history books of the Security Council. Perhaps as controversial as the first condemnation.

Against.

[Ambroscus Koth]

This is great.

[Cormac Stark]

Did you really just list reasons why it shouldn't be liberated, and then say it should?

Again, this isn't really about liberating NAZI EUROPE because it hasn't been invaded. This is about removing its password protection so that it can be invaded. All liberation resolutions are by necessity "Liberate [Region]," but at their core all they do is remove password protection -- usually to prevent continued occupation of a region (or at least make it more difficult), but in this case to enable invasion of the region.

Way to reveal your secret plan four posts into the thread, Doofenschmirtz. ಠ____ಠ

It wasn't exactly a secret, given that the liberation resolution openly states why we would be removing NE's password protection. Is anyone actually reading the resolution?

[Zimmercia]

OOOH! I get it now, thanks for the explanation.

[Mahaj]

The precedent behind this scares me.

That being said, everybody should have seen this coming.

[Cormac Stark]

The precedent behind this scares me.

That being said, everybody should have seen this coming.

I did consider the precedent. I don't think the Security Council is likely to liberate regions for the purpose of opening them for invasion arbitrarily or lightly -- in fact, I'm not sure it will even do so in this case. But I do think in rare circumstances in which a region is a menace to the interregional community, as NAZI EUROPE and its allies certainly have been, the Security Council should take action to allow other regions to respond with the use of force. It would be difficult for NAZI EUROPE and allies to invade and grief other regions if they're having to constantly worry about defending NAZI EUROPE.

[Altaggannah]

This is a very interesting (I can't think of the right word to put there) proposal that is very well written in my opinion. I'm not sure if I could support a proposal to allow a region, that isn't currently being invaded, to remove a password to where it can be invaded.

[Shemiki]

This is a great idea! Sure hope this makes it to quorum.

By the way, anyone posting should read the resolution first.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

This is trying to remove a password put up by a Delegate of more than a year?

[Cinistra]

This is trying to remove a password put up by a Delegate of more than a year?

He probably needed this amount of time in order to figure out his intrigue. But a liberation to pave the way for an invasion? Sure. Fendas have applied this tactics for years.

[Paper Flowers]

By the way, anyone posting should read the resolution first.

As opposed to all those other resolutions where it's absolutely fine to post without having a clue?

It's interesting to see UDLers moving more into telling regions how they can and can't run themselves. Obviously opposed to this nonsense.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

By the way, anyone posting should read the resolution first.

As opposed to all those other resolutions where it's absolutely fine to post without having a clue?

It's interesting to see UDLers moving more into telling regions how they can and can't run themselves. Obviously opposed to this nonsense.

Bump to this, as it expresses my views perfectly.

[Shemiki]

By the way, anyone posting should read the resolution first.

As opposed to all those other resolutions where it's absolutely fine to post without having a clue?

It's interesting to see UDLers moving more into telling regions how they can and can't run themselves. Obviously opposed to this nonsense.

I meant a lot of the people posting had no clue what the resolution was meant for at first.
And I'm not from UDL, if that is what you meant by that.

[Paper Flowers]

As opposed to all those other resolutions where it's absolutely fine to post without having a clue?

It's interesting to see UDLers moving more into telling regions how they can and can't run themselves. Obviously opposed to this nonsense.

I meant a lot of the people posting had no clue what the resolution was meant for at first.
And I'm not from UDL, if that is what you meant by that.

If people aren't reading the resolution anyway, I doubt an uninformed passerby inviting them to will change anything.
With regards to your second point, I was speaking to the intentions of the author.

[Jamie Anumia]

It's a native imposed password. While I abhor Nazi themed regions, I'm opposed to this proposal.
~ Jamie Anumia WA Representative - Treacle Smith ~

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

I accept that the reasoning behind this is utterly, utterly flawed, but I'm in favour of this becuz Nazis, even though it's a dangerous precedent to set.

That, and you know, sometimes it's nice to watch the world burn.

- Arthur McManus, Great Noodly Apostle and FreeSocian WA Ambassador

[Cormac Stark]

It's interesting to see UDLers moving more into telling regions how they can and can't run themselves. Obviously opposed to this nonsense.

Bump to this, as it expresses my views perfectly.

This has nothing, zero, nada to do with the UDL (or for that matter The North Pacific, my home region -- how odd that you didn't single it out for ridicule. It's almost like you have some bias against the UDL or something!). We're not the Borg, and I'm sure there are quite a few members of the UDL who are opposed to this proposal -- just as I doubt that every citizen of Skyrim or Europeia (or their governments as a whole) backed Skyrim Diplomacy's nonsensical proposal to repeal Liberate Region of reunited muslim states just because he could. Both of you should recall that my strong opposition to fascism and fascist regions predates my membership in the UDL, and oddly enough neither of you seemed to have a big problem with it when I was a raider from Asgard. Hmm, strange.

[Sciongrad]

The idea of the Security Council using its power as a means of eliminating any particular ideology is not something I, or anyone with an interest in securing at least some integrity in this establishment, wants to see. I'm actually dumbfounded that someone who clearly has an investment in defending is trying to pass a resolution with the intent of initiating a raid. I don't like Nazism as much as the next guy, but this is an insidious abuse of power.

Both of you should recall that my strong opposition to fascism and fascist regions predates my membership in the UDL, and oddly enough neither of you seemed to have a big problem with it when I was a raider from Asgard. Hmm, strange.

How bizarre - nobody questioned your wanting to raid fascist regions when you were a raider, but all of a sudden, for some inscrutable reason, there's concern over your willingness to raid as a defender. I don't think anyone was questioning your commitment to Nazi-hating; it was more of a recognition of hypocrisy.

[Cormac Stark]

The idea of the Security Council using its power as a means of eliminating any particular ideology is not something I, or anyone with an interest in securing at least some integrity in this establishment, wants to see. I'm actually dumbfounded that someone who clearly has an investment in defending is trying to pass a resolution with the intent of initiating a raid. I don't like Nazism as much as the next guy, but this is an insidious abuse of power.

For starters, this isn't the Security Council trying to eliminate an ideology and National Socialism isn't just any old respectable political ideology.

This resolution is a strategic attempt to open NAZI EUROPE, which has been a menace to interregional peace and goodwill throughout its history, to potential invasion. The hope is that the threat of potential invasion will deter NAZI EUROPE and its allies from engaging in aggressive and destructive actions against other regions because they will be preoccupied with the defense of their home region. That goal is perfectly compatible with the Security Council's mission to spread interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary. The two condemnations that this Security Council has passed against NAZI EUROPE have done nothing to force it to adhere to acceptable standards of conduct set by the interregional community; perhaps this will.

How bizarre - nobody questioned your wanting to raid fascist regions when you were a raider, but all of a sudden, for some inscrutable reason, there's concern over your willingness to raid as a defender. I don't think anyone was questioning your commitment to Nazi-hating; it was more of a recognition of hypocrisy.

The problem with this argument is that it assumes that all defenders are opposed to all invasions. While that may be true of some (perhaps even many) defenders, it's not true of others. I believe that empowering other regions to invade NAZI EUROPE will serve to deter them and potentially their allies from engaging in acts of aggression and regional destruction against innocent founderless regions and their natives, and I would much rather do everything I can to protect the latter than adhere to an absolutist ideology that demands respect for the rights of Nazi natives who would invade innocent regions and destroy innocent natives' homes.