[RE-DRAFT] Prohibiting Animal Abuse

[The Defwaen Confederation]

Last time I checked, Ambassador, your nation was not a member of the WA, and therefore not obliged to follow this legislation. Feel free to ignore it!

OOC: many players RP their non-WA nations as in the WA, so they can participate with a specific puppet but still leave their membership fluid, as in the case of Raiders and Defenders. Just by way of explanation.

OOC: I can't join the WA because of my delegacy and the fact the DSA can't endorsements like TNP can (seriously, how do you guys do that)

[Imperium Anglorum]

OOC: many players RP their non-WA nations as in the WA, so they can participate with a specific puppet but still leave their membership fluid, as in the case of Raiders and Defenders. Just by way of explanation.

OOC: I can't join the WA because of my delegacy and the fact the DSA can't endorsements like TNP can (seriously, how do you guys do that)

You mean the fact that they have 500+ endorsements?

[The Defwaen Confederation]

OOC: I can't join the WA because of my delegacy and the fact the DSA can't endorsements like TNP can (seriously, how do you guys do that)

You mean the fact that they have 500+ endorsements?

OOC: I don't know much about the process in TNP, but it takes weeks for a delegate to take power in the DSA. So much of a problem, we've considered moving to a puppet system.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Prohibiting Animal Abuse is back!

[Separatist Peoples]

Prohibiting Animal Abuse is back!

"And much improved. I think this one is actually acceptable."

[Bari]

The Barisan Delegation continues to oppose this resolution, as the legislator remains obstinate in his cultural supremacism in his attempts to demean and even outlaw the established customs of Bari, namely, the use of animals in traditional fighting sports. If this clause were to be removed, the proposal would have our full support.

[Imperium Anglorum]

"I'm struggling to see why this is an international issue. If the C.D.S.P. puts salty thumbtacks into the tails of donkeys for fun, how exactly does that affect the citizens of Lockhaven? It doesn't. Waste of the WA's time. Opposed."

The Empire still agrees with the initial assessment of the Most Excellent and Honourable Delegation from the Confederate Dominion of Separatist Peoples.

You know, I don't usually follow the World Assembly, just answering issues and all... but seriously. We got some proposals about indigenous peoples and wartime behavior which might actually matter, then we decided to pass some crap about health which might matter if the world ends like tomorrow or something, and now we've got some crap about animals.

The quality of this place is going down and down and down... What is happening to civilization in this place?

ADDENDUM: I thought this was the World Assembly, not the local feelgood club.

Oh man, you guys must not have seen World Space Administration...

[Wallenburg]

Prohibiting Animal Abuse is back!

"And much improved. I think this one is actually acceptable."

Barely an improvement. Still OPPOSED.

[Atomic Utopia]

"Still opposed, it does not allow for the potential deaths of animals as a direct result of weapons use (firebombing may kill some bugs) and is not comprehensive in any way. I also do not see how this is an international issue."

[Tinfect]

"Ambassador, if there were, say, a world, that the Imperium intends to colonize, that is home to extremely hostile Wildlife, or an unsupportive Ecosystem in general, Would this resolution prevent us from exterminating problematic Wildlife? Or from altering a World's atmosphere in order to more adequetly support Human life?

If either of those are the Case, the Imperium cannot support this, regardless of its noble goal."

[Bananaistan]

We remain opposed. It has not been demonstrated that the problem being dealt with is of sufficiently international character to warrant the WA's attention.

[Normlpeople]

"I still believe this is not an international issue. Nonetheless, should you proceed with this, I would suggest laying out Hunting and Fishing in more detail. A case can be made that shooting an animal is 'cruel' or 'needlessly painful', and Fish caught in a net for processing could well be 'slow'. Such terms are very loaded and could be twisted by specific groups to outlaw such activities completely."

[Losthaven]

"Ambassador, if there were, say, a world, that the Imperium intends to colonize, that is home to extremely hostile Wildlife, or an unsupportive Ecosystem in general, Would this resolution prevent us from exterminating problematic Wildlife? Or from altering a World's atmosphere in order to more adequetly support Human life?

If either of those are the Case, the Imperium cannot support this, regardless of its noble goal."

I wonder if there aren't a host of other resolutions on the subject of animals that would prohibit you from altering a world's atmosphere at the expense of all those species already there... Also, if a world is unsupportive of an ecosystem in general, well, there would be no animals there, right?

In any case, there's a pest control exception that allows for reasonable methods of dealing with pests. And, again, if what you're after is exterminating all native wildlife you don't like, there are a number of WA resolutions that already prohibit that. And there should be, as ecosystem destruction is not really a laudable goal.

"I still believe this is not an international issue. Nonetheless, should you proceed with this, I would suggest laying out Hunting and Fishing in more detail. A case can be made that shooting an animal is 'cruel' or 'needlessly painful', and Fish caught in a net for processing could well be 'slow'. Such terms are very loaded and could be twisted by specific groups to outlaw such activities completely."

I am a big proponent of reasonable, good faith interpretation. There are all sorts of crazy interpretations for every WA law. Those really aren't a real problem unless the law forces member nations to an absurd stance. Nothing in the language of the proposal requires member nations to reach the conclusion that hunting an animal is cruel. If some nations want to interpret it that way, those are probably the nations that outlawed hunting to begin with (to the extent they can, in light of other WA resolutions on the subject).

I understand that many of the earlier opponents are still bellyaching that this is not an international issue, though it plainly is. I responded to the repeal argument by adding two additional lines to the preamble, one of which states explicitly why this legislation fulfills a central WA mandate.

[Separatist Peoples]

"How does the author approach the claim that this would make illegal the use of weapon in war that kill or wound wild animals?"

[Imperium Anglorum]

"How does the author approach the claim that this would make illegal the use of weapon in war that kill or wound wild animals?"

Yes, I'm quite curious on this subject as well... *marks off point on sheet of paper titled 'break in case of passage'*

[Jarish Inyo]

Still opposed. Still do not find that this subject is of such an importance to merit being an international issue. Nor do we find it an improvement over the previous attempt. With this, like the previous attempt, nations could not use animals for military and law enforcement.

Nor do we take the view that fighting sports are anymore animal abuse then horse or dog racing. We will not support or force anyone else's moral believes upon our citizens.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Still opposed. Still do not find that this subject is of such an importance to merit being an international issue. Nor do we find it an improvement over the previous attempt. With this, like the previous attempt, nations could not use animals for military and law enforcement.

Please, honourable Losthaven, don't just add more exceptions onto the list of exceptions to account for all of these problems. From our short and uneventful cooperation on the repeal of the Gem Trading Accord, I was convinced you're a reasonable bloke. Please don't add more and more exceptions. Even Kaboomlandia (nickname, Bombs) doesn't do that anymore.

Exceptions in legislation are like gotos in code. They exist. You don't need them.

[Whovian Tardisia]

It has just occured to me that it is Tuesday... Glad to see the self defense concern (the main reason I supported the repeal) has been sorted though.

[Jorren]

Jorren's Ambassador speaks up: "The Grand Leader is still not convinced this is a WA issue. Something like this is better handled country to country. Many have brought up the problem of cultural traditions that would be violated upon passing of this legislation. The Grand Leader wishes to know what is it you hate so much about humankind that you would tear down their rights and traditions to 'preserve' the rights of those who would not even be able to comprehend such rights?"