[DRAFT] Repeal Liberate Eclipsis

[Reventus Koth]

I genuinely do not care for litigating the health of the faction with you (or anyone here on the forums to be fair). It really isn’t too much to ask that people not blatantly mischaracterize what other people mean when they make their points.

Again Eshia’s post clearly has nothing to do with what they prioritize most overall, but their motivation for pursuing this repeal specifically. You can think that motivation is silly, but make that argument instead of the mischaracterization.

I frankly didn't even say that he was more interested in the badge than what he said he was after, just that it would be the only thing defenders gained from the operation, and saying that he and Ostro were self-interested. Both of these things are true, so I don't know why you're so insistent on this misdirection.

Just to make sure nobody is getting distracted here: the Liberation resolution that this repeal is targeting was passed as a joke because defenders couldn't even stop an already refounded region from getting a badge. That this thread exists at all is a monument to the new priorities of the defender faction: let raider operations go uncontested, but cue the waterworks when it comes time to cook up another useless resolution to waste the playerbase's time. Because Eshia is against raiders having badges on their trophies more than anything else.

[Repreteop]

ever heard of a "sore loser"

its always raid, quite literal wannabe deep state region associated nation sending a wa resolution in, it getting passed partially by those looking at propaganda brought by their own region, and if this fails because the printing machines didn't work fast enough, don't worry, we'll just fill the wa quorum with a unneeded repeal. but holy shit you're right, i could just write these futile repeals myself and have the wa lead by the "defender" oligarchy stomp on it

same shit over and over and over and over and over just with creatively named regions and those with short but noted histories

all these "morally" up defenders don't give a shit about defending the innocent, no they just want to get people to lick their boots and sit around while they fail

don't even get me wrong i don't have a good opinion on some raiders but at least they don't lie to themselves and think they're the good guys in this story

so boring

[Angeloid Astraea]

I genuinely do not care for litigating the health of the faction with you (or anyone here on the forums to be fair). It really isn’t too much to ask that people not blatantly mischaracterize what other people mean when they make their points.

Again Eshia’s post clearly has nothing to do with what they prioritize most overall, but their motivation for pursuing this repeal specifically. You can think that motivation is silly, but make that argument instead of the mischaracterization.

This is an impressive balance to pull off. Being lucid enough to realize litigating the health of your faction on the NS forums is pointless, but not being lucid enough to realize an argument over semantics on the NS forums is just as pointless. =P

[Astrobolt]

I genuinely do not care for litigating the health of the faction with you (or anyone here on the forums to be fair). It really isn’t too much to ask that people not blatantly mischaracterize what other people mean when they make their points.

Again Eshia’s post clearly has nothing to do with what they prioritize most overall, but their motivation for pursuing this repeal specifically. You can think that motivation is silly, but make that argument instead of the mischaracterization.

I frankly didn't even say that he was more interested in the badge than what he said he was after, just that it would be the only thing defenders gained from the operation, and saying that he and Ostro were self-interested. Both of these things are true, so I don't know why you're so insistent on this misdirection.

Just so we are 100% clear, I never claimed you were accusing Eshia of being more interested in the badge than what they claimed to be interested in.

[Reventus Koth]

Just so we are 100% clear, I never claimed you were accusing Eshia of being more interested in the badge than what they claimed to be interested in.

Upon re-read, I think your point was more about the context in which he said "more than anything else". I can see your perspective, but I think it's entirely fair to read what he said as a general statement of priorities. I left the possibility open in my original post that he didn't mean exactly what he said, but he still said it. I hope it's not true as written, lol.

[Outer Sparta]

Whatever Eshia's motives (personal badge hunting or removal of raider badges), it doesn't change the fact that this is an unnecessary repeal and should be abandoned, lest it just be another attempt by defenders to hide their recent ineptitudes.

[Ostrovskiy]

I genuinely do not care for litigating the health of the faction with you (or anyone here on the forums to be fair). It really isn’t too much to ask that people not blatantly mischaracterize what other people mean when they make their points.

Again Eshia’s post clearly has nothing to do with what they prioritize most overall, but their motivation for pursuing this repeal specifically. You can think that motivation is silly, but make that argument instead of the mischaracterization.

I frankly didn't even say that he was more interested in the badge than what he said he was after, just that it would be the only thing defenders gained from the operation, and saying that he and Ostro were self-interested. Both of these things are true, so I don't know why you're so insistent on this misdirection.

Hey! So, Eshia is someone I consider a friend, and thus I helped him rewrite the resolution to give it a go if he thought it was a good idea to try. I don't care about the badge and I'd be happy to have my name taken off it if it makes people feel better about it (I know it doesn't, but whatever).

[Reventus Koth]

Hey! So, Eshia is someone I consider a friend, and thus I helped him rewrite the resolution to give it a go if he thought it was a good idea to try. I don't care about the badge and I'd be happy to have my name taken off it if it makes people feel better about it (I know it doesn't, but whatever).

Appreciate the clarification, though again to be clear there is more to self-interest than wanting a badge. It's totally fine if your motivation for contributing to this repeal was helping out a friend, my point is that it isn't for any reason beyond that.

[Bormiar]

Is it possible that when Eshia said “more than anything else” he was exaggerating and didn’t expect to be taken literally?

[Reventus Koth]

Is it possible that when Eshia said “more than anything else” he was exaggerating and didn’t expect to be taken literally?

Assuming you are being serious and that your priorities were not an exaggeration,

[Bormiar]

Is it possible that when Eshia said “more than anything else” he was exaggerating and didn’t expect to be taken literally?

Assuming you are being serious and that your priorities were not an exaggeration,

I can’t figure out why you would post a rant as bad as that one on these forums unless you were absolutely sure it was directed at the right person.

[Reventus Koth]

I can’t figure out why you would post a rant as bad as that one on these forums unless you were absolutely sure it was directed at the right person.

I'm not sure why you're so surprised that I am taking someone's words at face value and not assuming that they didn't mean them, even though I already took the possibility of typical defender dishonesty into account and clarified that it only applies if they truly do mean it. No need to jump down my throat with "but he might not have meant it!"

[Fachumonn]

This is getting out of hand.

[Bormiar]

I'm against raiders having badges on their trophies more than anything else. So sue me.

I want you to know that in all my years of playing this game, this might legitimately be the most pathetic thing I have ever heard an active defender say. I've heard more ridiculous, scandalous, outrageous, etc. things of course, but in terms of pure shame you should be feeling by saying this unironically, I can't readily think of a similar turn of phrase.

More than anything else, Eshia? You've been part of over 100 liberation attempts, and what you care about more than anything else is making sure that raiders don't get a meaningless badge on the trophy they only have because of your complete lack of effort to save that region?

This mentality is why TGW has become a complete joke. Assuming you are being serious and that your priorities were not an exaggeration, you bring disgrace to the cause and should completely re-evaluate your approach to defending for your faction's well-being. You and your fellow recently promoted Warden-Lieutenant can submit this as written, get your free author badge, and feel good about knowing that once again, the only thing that defenders gained from a Malice operation is an SC author badge. At least raiders are up front about their egos and self-interest.

You insult the intelligence of the SC with your "sobbing" and "disgust". You didn't give a shit about Eclipsis enough to do a damn thing to protect it outside a token siege just to say that you didn't do absolutely nothing. The only people you should be disgusted with are your own cohort, the ones stealing the valor of the name "defenders", especially your coward leaders who deliberately signed the region's death warrant after update one. You're more interested in shaming and insulting raiders (e.g. calling us "sadists") than actually posting a threat to our operations.

I hope that people are going to see through this pathetic sob story at some point, and some already have. You really don't care. Go ahead and prove me wrong, let's see a hero origin story for once.

I can’t figure out why you would post a rant as bad as that one on these forums unless you were absolutely sure it was directed at the right person.

I'm not sure why you're so surprised that I am taking someone's words at face value and not assuming that they didn't mean them, even though I already took the possibility of typical defender dishonesty into account and clarified that it only applies if they truly do mean it. No need to jump down my throat with "but he might not have meant it!"

You took a short, off-hand quip from Eshialand overly-literally and then proceeded to scold them in a 300-word rant that included making sweeping declarations on a person who you know almost nothing about, telling them they should be ashamed of themselves, calling them self-interested and egotistical, calling their attitude "pathetic", claiming baselessly they "don't give a shit about" about Eclipsis even though you have no way of possibly knowing that, and insulting them further by claiming that their mentality has turned their region into "a complete joke". And then after being called out on that, you doubled down and accused them of possibly being dishonest with no evidence of that whatsoever. Regardless of how you want to spin this, that's what happened.

Where else but the internet could you get away with talk like this, Koth? I mean... yeesh.

[Reventus Koth]

You took a short, off-hand quip from Eshialand overly-literally and then proceeded to scold them in a 300-word rant that included making sweeping declarations on a person who you know almost nothing about, telling them they should be ashamed of themselves, calling them self-interested and egotistical, calling their attitude "pathetic", claiming baselessly they "don't give a shit about" about Eclipsis even though you have no way of possibly knowing that, and insulting them further by claiming that their mentality has turned their region into "a complete joke". And then after being called out on that, you doubled down and accused them of possibly being dishonest with no evidence of that whatsoever. Regardless of how you want to spin this, that's what happened.

Where else but the internet could you get away with talk like this, Koth? I mean... yeesh.

Would you like me to apologize for taking him seriously? I mean, I get it, coming from the person who couldn't even log into their WA nation while attempting a liberation. You're right, I should have never assumed defenders to be a serious people, and I am sorry for responding to his words as if that was not the case.

Either he meant what he said or he didn't, and my assessment of his position is either correct or it isn't. Somehow, you've found a way to be offended by either option.

Maybe, Bormiar, if the people who dedicate their time and efforts to declaring total war on people engaging in the game as it is meant and designed to be played, insulting their character at every turn, attempting to drive them away from social events, and making every one of their vendettas the problem of the long-suffering Security Council by tearing down their achievements and legacies and being proud of such endeavors, if they didn't want to have their positions criticized, they wouldn't post them.

But, of course, I clearly expect too much from an unserious people. My lot exists in your eyes to be mocked, scolded, disgraced, and glad for the privilege. Heaven forbid someone ever gives you the same treatment when you so very much deserve it.

[Angeloid Astraea]

Where else but the internet could you get away with talk like this, Koth? I mean... yeesh.

On the NS forums when talking about a raider.

[Fachumonn]

This is getting out of hand.

...

I'm not surprised in the least by the pettiness of you two.

[Outer Sparta]

I could care less about the personal stuff with Eshia or whatever other quips have been launched. The point is this proposal is not necessary and we don't want to clog the SC with even more of this nonsense. I also agree it's been a big L by defenders with their recent failures in trying to secure regions rather than push for liberations or injunctions, and by then it's too late.

[Notanam]

Is this still being pursued?

[The Ice States]

Does this have native consent?

UPDATE: courtesy of my co-author, here's a full rewrite to help put more meat on the bones of the original draft.

Who is this co-author?

[Rosartemis]

UPDATE: courtesy of my co-author, here's a full rewrite to help put more meat on the bones of the original draft.

Who is this co-author?

Ostro according to earlier posts in the thread.