National Conceal & Carry

[Galloism]

So I was reviewing in my mind the reciprocal agreement law regarding conceal and carry licenses (I think it failed). However, they were very big in saying that "This is not a Federal Conceal and Carry license!!!!!111oneoneeleven" Now, my question is, is a national conceal and carry really a bad thing? I think it would be very good, as it would set standards that you could carry across states without having to worry about the specific laws and regulations each time you cross an invisible line in the country.

I propose a three tiered Conceal & Carry law. All tiers require a background check and a firearm safety course, and a renewal every X number of years (how many, I'm not sure).

Tier 1: Basically your standard shall-issue conceal and carry law. It allows you to conceal and carry in normal businesses and areas that conceal and carry licenses normally permit you to take them. It doesn't allow carriage into federal buildings, courts, etc.

Tier 2: Safety course, demonstrated marksmanship required. Very thorough background check, the kind carried out by most state-level police departments and special services at a state level. Allows carriage into all places where the police are normally allowed to carry. I'm open to the idea of recertification of marksmanship on an occasional basis (perhaps once per year.)

Tier 3: Safety course, demonstrated marksmanship with mandatory recertification at the same level as federal agents. Extensive background check, waiting period, etc, basically undergoing the same rigorous examination as a normal federal agent would, along with keeping up their shooting talents as a normal federal agent would. Psychological profile is required. Tier three would also grant the power of arrest, badge, etc, but without pay/working schedule. In essence, if they saw a crime go down, they could act as a federal agent, but they aren't required to actually work for a federal agency. They would be allowed to conceal and carry into all places that a standard federal agent can - which is pretty much anywhere.

Failure to keep up with the requirements of any Tier would result in the license reverting back to the previous tier.

Opinions?

[United Dependencies]

define "area where the police are normally allowed to carry"

[Galloism]

define "area where the police might go"

Courtrooms, state-level government buildings, etc. There are certain places even your standard police cannot go with a firearm (airplanes, nuclear power plants, sensitive areas of infrastructure) and these would still be off-limits.

I assume you meant tier 2.

[You-Gi-Owe]

An armed society is a courteous society.

[Saint Clair Island]

Make ownership and concealed carry of firearms mandatory everywhere in the nation, even in airplanes and federal buildings and such. Randomly stop and search people on the streets, and throw them in jail if they're not carrying a concealed weapon.

Think of how much it'll deter crime!

[Gun Manufacturers]

Today, my roommate and I were discussing the recently failed bill concerning reciprocity of other states CCW permits, as well as the possibility of a national CCW license, and I would go for it. Under your tiered system, I don't see myself needing anything more than a tier 1 license, as all I do right now is target shoot (although there is a possibility of me taking up hunting at some point in the future).

[Othyl]

I mostly support this idea... Though Tier 3 seems a little pointless. America has a tradition of citizen's arrest policies carried over from England back in the day. Anyone can detain whoever they want if there's suspicion that a crime has been committed. Police investigations and warrants just generally follow, and should it be found that someone was illegally detained, then charges can be reversed. There's just a more rigid network of legislation protecting official police forces from such counter-charges.

In a general sense, I support concealed carry policies. Your proposal goes a step further than what would probably be supported by most people. Creating an all pervasive police force sounds great though, and could work wonders on crime without the extreme left whining about their 'violation of rights' because everyone, within reason, can meet those requirements.

I would however prefer that firearms be kept off planes, for everyone. The chances of a stray bullet are terrible and would only get worse with more people carrying. On the other hand, I'd love to see someone try to hijack a plane only to be met with every other passenger standing up and drawing on them.

So, definitely level 1 and maybe level 2 as well, but some considerable studies into level 3 before you consider implementing it.

[Hiddenrun]

I have no problem with people who are afraid of carrying guns, uncomfortable with the concept, or simply unwilling to do so for whatever political or religious reasons they have. I, however, have much less faith in humanity than they, and walk a little easier knowing I have access to a gun whenever I may need it. I would absolutely support an across the board licensing scheme like this. Though I doubt your average gangbanger is going to go get certified. My hope would be that I continue to be a better shot than some little baggy pants punk.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Make ownership and concealed carry of firearms mandatory everywhere in the nation, even in airplanes and federal buildings and such. Randomly stop and search people on the streets, and throw them in jail if they're not carrying a concealed weapon.

Think of how much it'll deter crime!

[Saint Clair Island]

I have no problem with people who are afraid of carrying guns, uncomfortable with the concept, or simply unwilling to do so for whatever political or religious reasons they have. I, however, have much less faith in humanity than they, and walk a little easier knowing I have access to a gun whenever I may need it. I would absolutely support an across the board licensing scheme like this. Though I doubt your average gangbanger is going to go get certified. My hope would be that I continue to be a better shot than some little baggy pants punk.

It's strange how some people can have almost no faith in humanity, but lots of faith in a small portion of humanity's marksmanship.

[Conserative Morality]

I agree with all of it except tier 3.

[Galloism]

I mostly support this idea... Though Tier 3 seems a little pointless. America has a tradition of citizen's arrest policies carried over from England back in the day. Anyone can detain whoever they want if there's suspicion that a crime has been committed. Police investigations and warrants just generally follow, and should it be found that someone was illegally detained, then charges can be reversed. There's just a more rigid network of legislation protecting official police forces from such counter-charges.

In a general sense, I support concealed carry policies. Your proposal goes a step further than what would probably be supported by most people. Creating an all pervasive police force sounds great though, and could work wonders on crime without the extreme left whining about their 'violation of rights' because everyone, within reason, can meet those requirements.

See, and they aren't really police exactly. Especially tier one and tier two have no "police" authority aside from the ability and places that they can carry weapons (especially tier 2).

I would however prefer that firearms be kept off planes, for everyone. The chances of a stray bullet are terrible and would only get worse with more people carrying. On the other hand, I'd love to see someone try to hijack a plane only to be met with every other passenger standing up and drawing on them.

So, definitely level 1 and maybe level 2 as well, but some considerable studies into level 3 before you consider implementing it.

See, all federal agents are allowed to carry guns aboard to planes. FBI, US Marshals, IRS, everyone - but they have to recertify marksmanship within very tight standards very often (I think it's every 3 months, but I don't remember for sure). That's why they're allowed is because they have to be very very good to maintain their right to carry.

A tier 3 individual would have to meet the exact same standard.

[Hiddenrun]

It's strange how some people can have almost no faith in humanity, but lots of faith in a small portion of humanity's marksmanship.

I have faith that my long years spent acquainting myself with various firearms are going to serve me better than some moronic 19 year old who holds his gun cocked to the side, like some rapper in a shitty movie. While he's busy talking big, I ensure I don't miss.

[Gun Manufacturers]

I mostly support this idea... Though Tier 3 seems a little pointless. America has a tradition of citizen's arrest policies carried over from England back in the day. Anyone can detain whoever they want if there's suspicion that a crime has been committed. Police investigations and warrants just generally follow, and should it be found that someone was illegally detained, then charges can be reversed. There's just a more rigid network of legislation protecting official police forces from such counter-charges.

In a general sense, I support concealed carry policies. Your proposal goes a step further than what would probably be supported by most people. Creating an all pervasive police force sounds great though, and could work wonders on crime without the extreme left whining about their 'violation of rights' because everyone, within reason, can meet those requirements.

I would however prefer that firearms be kept off planes, for everyone. The chances of a stray bullet are terrible and would only get worse with more people carrying. On the other hand, I'd love to see someone try to hijack a plane only to be met with every other passenger standing up and drawing on them.

So, definitely level 1 and maybe level 2 as well, but some considerable studies into level 3 before you consider implementing it.

Actually, as it stands now, firearms can be on airplanes, but only as checked luggage (pursuant to TSA and FOPA regulations).

[Saint Clair Island]

It's strange how some people can have almost no faith in humanity, but lots of faith in a small portion of humanity's marksmanship.

I have faith that my long years spent acquainting myself with various firearms are going to serve me better than some moronic 19 year old who holds his gun cocked to the side, like some rapper in a shitty movie. While he's busy talking big, I ensure I don't miss.

I have to ask, though, if you're carrying a concealed firearm and somebody accosts you with a gun, what makes you think they'll let you un-conceal it? You start reaching for your gun and they'll shoot you, no?

[Othyl]

Firearms in cargo aren't an issue. I meant people with firearms. And as far as 'marksmanship standards' I wouldn't be jumping to support those. It's one thing to shoot at a range well, it's another thing to shoot in a high stress environment where someone could be actively trying to kill you and a stray bullet could compromise the integrity of the aircraft. If you could assure me that people would have the second form of marksmanship, then by all means do it. Otherwise, it sounds like asking for trouble.

[Gun Manufacturers]

It's strange how some people can have almost no faith in humanity, but lots of faith in a small portion of humanity's marksmanship.

I have faith that my long years spent acquainting myself with various firearms are going to serve me better than some moronic 19 year old who holds his gun cocked to the side, like some rapper in a shitty movie. While he's busy talking big, I ensure I don't miss.

I have to ask, though, if you're carrying a concealed firearm and somebody accosts you with a gun, what makes you think they'll let you un-conceal it? You start reaching for your gun and they'll shoot you, no?

If they say, "Give me your wallet", you have to reach for SOMETHING. Assuming your firearm is concealed at your back (and if you've practiced drawing your firearm), they might not realize that's not your wallet until your firearm is leveled at them.

[Heinleinites]

I could support that. It's a good idea. Maybe stick a psychological profile in tier 2 as well, if not as in-depth as the one in tier 3. Most police depts. and other state employees that carry get those.

[Saint Clair Island]

If they say, "Give me your wallet", you have to reach for SOMETHING. Assuming your firearm is concealed at your back (and if you've practiced drawing your firearm), they might not realize that's not your wallet until your firearm is leveled at them.

Aye, but that's taking a chance. What if they've seen at least one or two movies where somebody did that and thus tell you to put your hands in the air, then search you themselves? You could lose not only your wallet but your gun too -- and get thrown in jail for violating mandatory concealed carry laws to boot.

[Galloism]

I could support that. It's a good idea. Maybe stick a psychological profile in tier 2 as well, if not as in-depth as the one in tier 3. Most police depts. and other state employees that carry get those.

Hmm, I didn't have to get one when I worked for Florida, or nobody told me I was taking one. It could have been either, I suppose.

Fair enough, though. It's kind of a rough sketch, so to speak.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

I see nothing wrong with a 50 state standard of conceal and carry license. ANd between Democrats who would approve of a national standard and Republicans who will approve of the ease of transportation from state to state, I bet you could get enough support on both sides of the aisle.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Firearms in cargo aren't an issue. I meant people with firearms. And as far as 'marksmanship standards' I wouldn't be jumping to support those. It's one thing to shoot at a range well, it's another thing to shoot in a high stress environment where someone could be actively trying to kill you and a stray bullet could compromise the integrity of the aircraft. If you could assure me that people would have the second form of marksmanship, then by all means do it. Otherwise, it sounds like asking for trouble.

Whoops. That's what I get for misunderstanding your post (I thought you were talking about firearms in any/all areas of the plane).

[Hiddenrun]

I have to ask, though, if you're carrying a concealed firearm and somebody accosts you with a gun, what makes you think they'll let you un-conceal it? You start reaching for your gun and they'll shoot you, no?

It's concealed. Which means they assume you don't have it. And if someone pulls a gun on me, they'd better use it quickly, rather than running off at the mouth. My gun isn't a guarantee of anything except a chance to do more than you could just pulling your dick out in that situation.

[Ravea]

I support giving people the right to conceal electric eels on their person, because that seems far more comical in a combat situation.

[Galloism]

I see nothing wrong with a 50 state standard of conceal and carry license. ANd between Democrats who would approve of a national standard and Republicans who will approve of the ease of transportation from state to state, I bet you could get enough support on both sides of the aisle.

Hmm.

*writes congressman*