DEFEATED: Repeal "Condemn NAZI EUROPE"

[Firstaria]

I discovered some problems on NAZI EUROPE, about the fact they are raiders etc.

I think people is start considering C&C only a simple matter of "little symbol on the page". And this isn't the truth in my opinion.

[Scarsaw]

I discovered some problems on NAZI EUROPE, about the fact they are raiders etc.

I think people is start considering C&C only a simple matter of "little symbol on the page". And this isn't the truth in my opinion.

OOC: Ah, but you see, they aren't condemning us for that. See, the largest problem of the condemnation is that it is poorly written and focuses on ideology. And what is the condemnation to you if it's not a little symbol on the page? Since we've had it for quite a while now and well, not one has said anything about it.

[Yelda]

Will it really be retroactively defeated, though? By the admins?

Where are the mods? They need to either agree with us or crack down on us. It's interesting to see the former...

I fail to see why this would be removed by the admins when C&Cs have no in-game effect other than to paste a decal on a nation or region's page. In the past they have refused to remove illegal WA (now GA) resolutions and those resolutions actually did have in-game effects: stat changes for everyone.

This repeal effort was launched too early. The best course of action now would be to wait a couple of months, let the issue die down a bit, then try it again sometime this fall.

[Scarsaw]

Will it really be retroactively defeated, though? By the admins?

Where are the mods? They need to either agree with us or crack down on us. It's interesting to see the former...

I fail to see why this would be removed by the admins when C&Cs have no in-game effect other than to paste a decal on a nation or region's page. In the past they have refused to remove illegal WA (now GA) resolutions and those resolutions actually did have in-game effects: stat changes for everyone.

This repeal effort was launched too early. The best course of action now would be to wait a couple of months, let the issue die down a bit, then try it again sometime this fall.

I think people want to see some mod action due to the fact that this sort of condemnation is now illegal. It just seems that for some reason Nazi Europe is a 'special case'.

[Yelda]

Will it really be retroactively defeated, though? By the admins?

Where are the mods? They need to either agree with us or crack down on us. It's interesting to see the former...

I fail to see why this would be removed by the admins when C&Cs have no in-game effect other than to paste a decal on a nation or region's page. In the past they have refused to remove illegal WA (now GA) resolutions and those resolutions actually did have in-game effects: stat changes for everyone.

This repeal effort was launched too early. The best course of action now would be to wait a couple of months, let the issue die down a bit, then try it again sometime this fall.

I think people want to see some mod action due to the fact that this sort of condemnation is now illegal. It just seems that for some reason Nazi Europe is a 'special case'.

Yeah, I understand why mod action is wanted, I just don't expect it to happen. The last time they removed a passed resolution was during the move to Jolt and that was before I started playing.

[Mexar]

I discovered some problems on NAZI EUROPE, about the fact they are raiders etc.

I think people is start considering C&C only a simple matter of "little symbol on the page". And this isn't the truth in my opinion.

Their raiding might justify a condemnation, especially if they're region-destroyers. But it's not mentioned in this condemnation.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Regrettably the repeal fell through but about 1000 votes. I see why the voters do not want this resolution repealed, it is probably the effects of Nazism. A possible solution may be to reform GA #2 to clarify that racial hatred should not be tolerated.

Overall, this has been a difficult resolution to address.

[Spredronia]

This was defeated some 3000 something votes to 2900 something votes. Let's move on to the next one please. Chop-chop.

*opens door into General Assembly*

[Almajoya]

"You inform the World Assembly that The Dominion of Almajoya will no longer participate in its corrupt, hollow debates. From this moment forward, your nation is on its own."

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

I think people want to see some mod action due to the fact that this sort of condemnation is now illegal. It just seems that for some reason Nazi Europe is a 'special case'.

Yeah, Max Barry Day was a special case too. We still had to repeal it like any other bad resolution. Besides, I doubt the rules can be retroactively enforced. Ex post facto laws be bad!

[Glen-Rhodes]

Yeah, Max Barry Day was a special case too. We still had to repeal it like any other bad resolution. Besides, I doubt the rules can be retroactively enforced. Ex post facto laws be bad!

Seems to me that if it doesn't pass, there's still enough evident player concern to call [violet] on her promise to get rid of early stuff that's later shown to be wrong (via the effect it would have on future proposals). That's where I think the motives of the original C&C's proposal author could be relevant, as signifying disrespect for the institution if it's allowed to stand. But that could never be the sole reason. What counts, ultimately, is the wording and the precedent it sets.

Haven't bothered to see where [violet] made the promise, but I trust Ardchoille. The possibility is not off the table, Kenny.

[Warner Channel]

"You inform the World Assembly that The Dominion of Almajoya will no longer participate in its corrupt, hollow debates. From this moment forward, your nation is on its own."

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Wow, you weren't joking...

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Haven't bothered to see where [violet] made the promise, but I trust Ardchoille. The possibility is not off the table, Kenny.

A vague "promise" relayed secondhand by a fallible moderator? Great! Let's stake all our hopes on it!

Though eminently reliable in most cases, I honestly think Cheryl is mistaken in this case. That the admins would "promise" to do something they've never done before in the seven-year history of the UN/WA (except in the case of a few early resolutions that directly interfered with game mechanics) to correct a minor issue with resolution formatting seems especially desperate.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Though eminently reliable in most cases, I honestly think Cheryl is mistaken in this case. That the admins would "promise" to do something they've never done before in the seven-year history of the UN/WA (except in the case of a few early resolutions that directly interfered with game mechanics) to correct a minor issue with resolution formatting seems especially desperate.

An appeasement to a raging group of WA regulars doesn't seem all that unbelievable. Besides, we're discussing "Condemn NAZI EUROPE", not "Commend 10000 Islands". What's at issue isn't a typo.

[Unibot]

A vague "promise" relayed secondhand by a fallible moderator? Great! Let's stake all our hopes on it!

Well actually [violet] did propose it on these forums, Ard was merely quoting it, I'll go search for it now....

And obviously we aren't staking all of our hopes on it, Glen Rhodes just proposed, and reached quorum with a repeal of "Condemn Nazi Europe" - and I'm pretty certain that if they waited for a few more months, maybe December or so, and tried again they'd see even more success.

I fail to see why this would be removed by the admins when C&Cs have no in-game effect other than to paste a decal on a nation or region's page. In the past they have refused to remove illegal WA (now GA) resolutions and those resolutions actually did have in-game effects: stat changes for everyone.
.

Yeah it is just a decal, but its a decal that seems to bring a lot of shame to this region in particular, and is a sign of political injustice. It might not effect a nation's stats, but this condemnation has had a considerable effect on NationStates.

[Unibot]

An appeasement to a raging group of WA regulars doesn't seem all that unbelievable.

No. It's not unbelievable at all. We're using a subforum which is living proof of that.

[Goobergunchia]

I wish to state for the record that:

The resolution "Repeal "Condemn NAZI EUROPE"" was defeated 3,047 votes to 2,091.

Susan Zapfkoro
Legislative Assistant
Goobergunchian UN Embassy

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

An appeasement to a raging group of WA regulars doesn't seem all that unbelievable. Besides, we're discussing "Condemn NAZI EUROPE", not "Commend 10000 Islands". What's at issue isn't a typo.

For freak's sake, it's just a stupid resolution! Your repeal failed. I'm sorry about that. Maybe you can try again in a few months' time? But there's no reason whatsoever to resort to increasingly desperate tactics like publicly pressuring the admins to intervene and delete a resolution you could not remove by democratic vote. The fate of the Security Council, the fate of the World Assembly, the fate of the game, does not rest on whether Condemn NAZI EUROPE stays on the books or not!

[Glen-Rhodes]

For freak's sake, it's just a stupid resolution! Your repeal failed. I'm sorry about that. Maybe you can try again in a few months' time? But there's no reason whatsoever to resort to increasingly desperate tactics like publicly pressuring the admins to intervene and delete a resolution you could not remove by democratic vote. The fate of the Security Council, the fate of the World Assembly, the fate of the game, does not rest on whether Condemn NAZI EUROPE stays on the books or not!

According to Ardchoille, [violet] offered to remove early resolutions. I see no reason why we shouldn't take her upon her offer, if she wants to do it. What harm is there to removing the resolution? The harm in keeping it is a conflict between precedent a rules.

Either way, I don't see why you're up-in-arms about it, aside from the fact that it doesn't happen in the GA.

[Mei-Dai]

I cheer that fact that Repeal "Condemn NAZI Europe" was defeated and give a cookie to all that done it

[Scarsaw]

I cheer that fact that Repeal "Condemn NAZI Europe" was defeated and give a cookie to all that done it

The Federation of Scarsaw condemns the cookies of Mei-Dai as they are cookies made with ignorance and poor education.

[Firstaria]

The OVERLORD of Firstaria agree with Scarsaw.

[Topid]

I didn't vote against it, but I'd like a cookie anyway...