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Sovereign Six | Institutional Health of the World Assembly

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Varanius
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Sovereign Six | Institutional Health of the World Assembly

Postby Varanius » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:05 am

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The Sovereign Six

Institutional Health of the World Assembly


All our regions have a deep commitment to the success and stability of the World Assembly. We are active participants in the voting process, and the combined authorship boasted by members of each of the signing parties to this statement is prolific, to put it lightly.

Given this compassion for the health of the World Assembly, it pains us to say that the General Assembly is in a sorry state of affairs. For some time, there has been a custom of bureaucratic overreach that strangles the institution and a culture of hostility that makes reformation efforts increasingly difficult. A small pool of authors continuously advance increasingly trivial and frivolous proposals, subjecting thousands of nations to their regulations for no real reason. Examples of this include the regrettably extant In-Ovo Sexing of Chicks and Emergency Broadcasting Standards, as well as the thankfully repealed World Assembly Official Merchandise and Contact Rights Between Parent and Child. This cannot continue to stand. One of these was repealed a mere five days later, suggesting a shortsighted and badge-printing approach to the General Assembly by these authors.

As a result of this dilemma, we are increasingly drawn toward protecting our citizens and residents from this unseemliness. Our regions are committed to a reduction in intensely niche, frivolous legislation, and a return to quality-based legislation in the General Assembly. This does not mean a universal opposition to new resolutions, nor a guaranteed support of any given repeal. Rather, we must deeply consider the consequences this chaos and tyranny imposes on our member nations and their sovereignty when making regional voting decisions and campaign calculations.

To this end, we declare the priority of the regional unit. The concept of regional interest is most associated with the Security Council, but we believe it encompasses both chambers. It is the duty of the sitting Delegate in a region, however they are selected, to represent the community’s concerns. It may well be in a region’s interest to support an allied author in resisting a repeal, for example. With that said, the impingement on the rights of any nation is an encroachment on the regional unit at large, and the Delegate has a duty to mitigate these overreaches. Further, the position of the Delegate must be respected as the earnest and legitimate position of the community they represent. Internal matters within regions are best resolved among compatriots, without the interference of General Assembly politicians and provocateurs.

An expected rebuttal is that membership in the World Assembly is consensual, but this is only true on the most shallow level. To seriously administer a region—to develop a growing community—requires the encouragement of membership in the World Assembly. For Game-Created Regions and Frontiers in particular, the Delegate is the sole authority recognized by the powers that be in the universe. Therefore, our relationship with the World Assembly is one of necessity for the very safety of our communities, and one we treat with the utmost weight as a result.

Repeal “World Assembly Headquarters” has passed, and its landslide victory represents a critical inflection point in the sovereigntist movement. We cannot forsake this momentum, and we will not stop here. The mandate provided to us by this margin of victory demands continued efforts to improve the state of the General Assembly, and we intend to rise to that duty for the betterment of all nations.

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Earthly Cossack
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Postby Earthly Cossack » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:11 am

Very unique signatures I see.
Not surprised Vara went with the classic eye.

No comment on the actual document as of right now.
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Postby Tinhampton » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:16 am

Varanius wrote:the thankfully repealed World Assembly Official Merchandise

:hug:

Anyway,
- Does the Sovereign Six agreement actually change anything - is this a new voting bloc, or does this just formalise each region/alliance's pre-existing NatSov tendencies? TWP had already been for all repeals and against all non-repeals since July 2019 (with limited exceptions, such as Supporting Marijuana Smokers). The AA are also already taking part in, and bound by, URA votes.
- How will the Sovereign Six assess "quality-based legislation?"
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Rhaza
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Postby Rhaza » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:18 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Varanius wrote:the thankfully repealed World Assembly Official Merchandise

:hug:

Anyway,
- Does the Sovereign Six agreement actually change anything - is this a new voting bloc, or does this just formalise each region/alliance's pre-existing NatSov tendencies? TWP had already been for all repeals and against all non-repeals since July 2019 (with limited exceptions, such as Supporting Marijuana Smokers). The AA are also already taking part in, and bound by, URA votes.
- How will the Sovereign Six assess "quality-based legislation?"


This is not a formal voting bloc - this immediate concept - i.e. a public multi-region statement on the issue was derived from an idea Vara and I came up with together. We do have a Discord server, but we're allowing the extent of coordination to develop naturally, rather than creating binding obligations at this time.

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Cessarea
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Postby Cessarea » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:23 am

Rhaza wrote:
Tinhampton wrote::hug:

Anyway,
- Does the Sovereign Six agreement actually change anything - is this a new voting bloc, or does this just formalise each region/alliance's pre-existing NatSov tendencies? TWP had already been for all repeals and against all non-repeals since July 2019 (with limited exceptions, such as Supporting Marijuana Smokers). The AA are also already taking part in, and bound by, URA votes.
- How will the Sovereign Six assess "quality-based legislation?"


This is not a formal voting bloc - this immediate concept - i.e. a public multi-region statement on the issue was derived from an idea Vara and I came up with together. We do have a Discord server, but we're allowing the extent of coordination to develop naturally, rather than creating binding obligations at this time.

Would the Sovereign Six be willing to state exactly what kind of legislative topics they consider proper for the World Assembly to pass Resolutions on? The recent state of affairs of the General Assembly concerns me in that new authors may find niche topics to write on only to be properly shut down by the specificity of the topics they write on. Repealing and replacing a Resolution is a tough and daunting process that a novice writer will have a lot of difficulty in doing.

Depending on what kind of topics the Sovereign Six plans to unite against, they may very well force the General Assembly to be completely unwelcoming to new writers - more so than they probably perceive it to already be. That is my concern.

I offer my aid in compiling standing legislation and suggesting repeals which your group may find interesting. If we are to go through this, I'd prefer for this to be over as quickly as possible.
Last edited by Cessarea on Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Adkissa
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Postby Adkissa » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:28 am

I can’t say that I disagree with anything here, but I’ve got a few questions.

For some time, there has been a custom of bureaucratic overreach that strangles the institution and a culture of hostility that makes reformation efforts increasingly difficult.

In some cases it’s obvious what “bureaucratic overreach” stands for, but others not. How will members determine what constitutes as such, and will said determining factors be announced? There are also environmentally protective resolutions that sometimes step into arguable overreach—how will these be handled?

I also feel that it’s important to state that part of the recent “culture of hostility” has been due to NatSov vs. IntFed debates. Is there a plan on how members will work to address this?
…a return to quality-based legislation in the General Assembly

How will it be determined what is “quality-based” and what isn’t? It’s a rather subjective term and opinions often differ on a person-to-person basis on what the bottom line is.

Aside from these, I’m curious as to whether this is a voting bloc or voting block. Is the point of this organization to push NatSov on the General Assembly, or simply stop resolutions that could prove beneficial to the IntFed argument?
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Rhaza
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Postby Rhaza » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:38 am

Cessarea wrote:Would the Sovereign Six be willing to state exactly what kind of legislative topics they consider proper for the World Assembly to pass Resolutions on? The recent state of affairs of the General Assembly concerns me in that new authors may find niche topics to write on only to be properly shut down by the specificity of the topics they write on. Repealing and replacing a Resolution is a tough and daunting process that a novice writer will have a lot of difficulty in doing.

Depending on what kind of topics the Sovereign Six plans to unite again, they may very well force the General Assembly to be completely unwelcoming to new writers - more so than they probably perceive it to already be. That is my concern.

I offer my aid in compiling standing legislation and suggesting repeals which your group may find interesting. If we are to go through this, I'd prefer for this to be over as quickly as possible.


Thank you for the question.

Unfortunately it's hard to answer conclusively. Some topics are obviously frivolous - such as the ones named in the statement. The statement's focus on regional sovereignty and discretion is relevant to this, our regions have the latitude to decide this issue on a case by case basis.

As far as friendliness to new authors - our regions and its foreign networks have extreme amounts of WA experience in both drafting and ensuring proposals pass, so I do not worry about that very much.

Adkissa wrote:I can’t say that I disagree with anything here, but I’ve got a few questions.

For some time, there has been a custom of bureaucratic overreach that strangles the institution and a culture of hostility that makes reformation efforts increasingly difficult.

In some cases it’s obvious what “bureaucratic overreach” stands for, but others not. How will members determine what constitutes as such, and will said determining factors be announced? There are also environmentally protective resolutions that sometimes step into arguable overreach—how will these be handled?


I think my above comment answers this question as best as I can - as far as announcements, I wouldn't rule out us using this thread in the future, or coordinating recommendation efforts (just like we did on the last repeal).

Adkissa wrote:I also feel that it’s important to state that part of the recent “culture of hostility” has been due to NatSov vs. IntFed debates. Is there a plan on how members will work to address this?


We're uninterested in placating GA oligarchs who do not represent regions, and represent no interests other than their own egos. We're fully prepared to settle those issues - including their provocations of our interests and regions, decisively at vote, as we just did with the repeal of the headquarters resolution.

Adkissa wrote:
…a return to quality-based legislation in the General Assembly

How will it be determined what is “quality-based” and what isn’t? It’s a rather subjective term and opinions often differ on a person-to-person basis on what the bottom line is.


It is subjective, but regional interests broadly are subjective, no? It's impossible to objectively assess this, but it is possible to discuss with partners and come to conclusions on what projects we wish to coordinate on, as with any other WA oriented group, formal or toherwise.

Adkissa wrote:Aside from these, I’m curious as to whether this is a voting bloc or voting block. Is the point of this organization to push NatSov on the General Assembly, or simply stop resolutions that could prove beneficial to the IntFed argument?


Our goal is to prevent and/or undo overreaching legislation whenever necessary, which is neither forcing an ideology on the GA or stopping things specifically beneficial to IntFeds.

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Varanius
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Postby Varanius » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:44 am

Cessarea wrote:The recent state of affairs of the General Assembly concerns me in that new authors may find niche topics to write on only to be properly shut down by the specificity of the topics they write on.
Quebec has broadly addressed your post, but I’d add on that our concern is actually an opposite one. The current state of GA legislation is bordering on labyrinthine. Anyone writing a fresh piece of legislation has to first comb through extant resolutions (which are only easily accessed as a unit on an off-site repository), comb through any definitions they have to avoid contradicting, and hope that tossing in a clause about how their resolution operates “within existing legislation” is enough to sidestep any minor definitions they might’ve missed (not to mention the legality challenge if they fail). A smaller, simpler pool of resolutions would be significantly more navigable, and thus approachable for newer players.

Edit:
Adkissa wrote:I’m curious as to whether this is a voting bloc or voting block. Is the point of this organization to push NatSov on the General Assembly
Again, Quebec has addressed this already but I’d like to add that we don’t force anything on the General Assembly. The General Assembly asserts itself on our membership, and we are saying as that membership’s chosen representatives that we will do our damndest to let them run their own nations.
Last edited by Varanius on Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ostropeake » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:46 am

nice signatures

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Adkissa
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Postby Adkissa » Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:41 am

Appreciate the speedy response to my questions. It’ll be fun to see where this goes!
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Lupercalia
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Postby Lupercalia » Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:51 am

Keep Gameplay out of the General Assembly!
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Knootoss
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Postby Knootoss » Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:07 pm

First post in the gameplay forum ever. :shock:

I'm glad to see a resurgence in sovereigntist sentiment. Even if it comes from unexpected quarters. This will, I think, be good and healthy.

One thing I would suggest, though, is that a lot of this problem is structural and eminently predictable. Back in 2012 I posted a possible solution in technical suggesting to introduce Sunset clauses (DO NOT REZ THIS! 2012!). Back then, this is how I defined the problem:

The Problem

Players, especially new players, find that the political issues that they are passionate about have already been legislated upon by the World Assembly. If they want to promote their ideas, they'll have to repeal one or even several older resolutions first. Older players have used precedent that flows from mod rulings and the duplication/contradiction rules to litigate against proposals they dislike. Needless to say, new players may be put off by this and leave.

For older players, the situation isn't ideal either. Members of the General Assembly community have to find ever-smaller niches to legislate about, leading to resolutions that are being drafted merely for the sake of "there not being a resolution about the topic yet". When things DO flare up, the game is most often defensive, as prominent authors and their allies are forced to scramble to defend their prize resolutions against repeal. Most older "regulars" have pretty much passed the things they wanted to pass, leaping into action only when one of their old accomplishments is being threatened by a repeal, or when there are old feuds to be fought over.

The result is that General Assembly politics become ever more gridlocked, stagnant, elitist and defensive. As the body of precedent continues to grow, it seems inevitable that the community will slowly strangle itself in its own red tape.


Back then I was shouted down by a number of fellow authors. In 2025, this has become the daily reality.

Random thoughts:

  • With hundreds of resolutions on the books, new authors face significant obstacles, even with experienced writers to help them. The major issues that most NationStates players care about have already been legislated upon, leaving little room for fresh contributions.
  • You might want to consider advocating for changes that change the World Assembly structurally. Right now, resolutions are like issues that other people get to answer once on your behalf, and which can then never be revisited. I'm not tied to any single approach, but the current pile of resolutions make it impossible for all but the most dedicated to pass shit. I know I gave up ages ago (current casino-related shenanigans notwithstanding.)
  • I am a little worried about the fate about the GA subforum. I've seen attempts to take drafting 'to the regions' before. I don't know if this is such an attempt, but the result in the past has been voting for and against resolutions on inscrutable (for me) GP popularity contests, followed by a loss of interest. The GA forums exist. They are the most accessible place to draft and debate resolutions. It would be nice if it had more natsov voices, not fewer voices.
  • I confused about the point you raised about GA interference in the regions, or how something the GA does undermines delegates. Could you explain what this means?

Thanks.

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Postby Omnicontrol » Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:10 pm

the ga should be more frivolous wdym
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Postby Elite » Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:10 pm

I hope you know that putting the number of signatories in the title means you're doomed to have one drop out relatively soon. :p
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Postby Yelda » Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:23 pm

Good statement! I find myself fundamentally in agreement on all points.
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Yelda
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Postby Yelda » Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:26 pm



I still support your sunset clause idea. Also that thread, and some of the responses in it, was a big factor in me walking away from NS in 2012. I've never fully came back.
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Postby Knootoss » Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:38 pm

Yelda wrote:


I still support your sunset clause idea. Also that thread, and some of the responses in it, was a big factor in me walking away from NS in 2012. I've never fully came back.


I mean I also went inactive on the GA, though I kept roleplaying. I'm not even wedded to the specifics of this proposal or even the proposal itself. It's just the idea that I would rather have a vibrant community than a tombstone with my name etched into it a bunch of times.

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Postby Rhaza » Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:50 pm

Elite wrote:I hope you know that putting the number of signatories in the title means you're doomed to have one drop out relatively soon. :p

Drop out? I would hope not. :blush: If the number has to get outdated I would hope it's in the other direction.

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Postby Badger » Fri Jan 24, 2025 3:51 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
Varanius wrote:the thankfully repealed World Assembly Official Merchandise

TWP had already been for all repeals and against all non-repeals since July 2019


TWP has been interested before my time as Delegate. I am guessing since Eli took over. Not sure of the exact year, probably 2008.
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Postby Saint Asperes » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:48 am

Elite wrote:I hope you know that putting the number of signatories in the title means you're doomed to have one drop out relatively soon. :p


Thats HIGHLY unlikely, We are all on one accord

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Postby Unibot III » Sun Jan 26, 2025 6:39 am

Hah! Kenny will be amused to hear he is now an International Federalist!!

This is ultimately a confused doctrine: you’re targeting nicheness and specificity by reviving the arguments from a generation ago that were used to criticize landmark social legislation in favour of today’s more niche, more technical legislation.

More socially significant legislation does not necessarily mean cheaper or easier to implement … rather it’s usually the opposite.

I strongly suspect those authors that endeavour to write on important, wide-ranging subjects that have been neglected — like financing climate change resilience and mitigation or supporting community in abject poverty — will find little support or sympathy from the Sinister Six. Because big projects in scope cost even more to run and require more changes to domestic regulation.

Repealing the World Assembly Headquarters belies the internal logic of this doctrine — the enabling legislation was far from the most technical or niche: it created a place to host the offices and organization of the WA - basically the first step to forming any international organization. More likely, the arguments presented here are a front for the members’ own intentions: the first and foremost of which is to bully people in the GA Author community and come up with an ideology to justify it.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Jan 26, 2025 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Haymarket Riot » Sun Jan 26, 2025 6:48 am

Unibot III wrote:snip

I'm going to train my newbies on repealing your stuff.
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Sun Jan 26, 2025 7:26 am

Haymarket Riot wrote:
Unibot III wrote:snip

I'm going to train my newbies on repealing your stuff.


Haha, good to know I’ve struck a chord :lol2: — most of it is repealed, kiddo. A telling response. Can’t wait to hear about how niche and specific decriminalizing suicide and providing basic education is.

The WA Authors who do debate in this thread are clearly wasting their time. This is not an ideological movement where the participants hope to persuade anybody — it’s a logically incoherent mess produced by a group of folks with axes to grind.

The OP says they want to get away from technical and niche resolutions because of costs and regulatory burden and sovereignty, though the more socially significant resolutions will involve more costs, burden, and infringement of their government’s prerogative; they say they want to target niche legislation and they begin by repealing one of the least niche, least technical resolutions on the books — “the WA needs offices” duh. What’s next, Ban on Trafficking and Slavery?

It’s just a big joke. I’m confused why you bother trying to explain your actions. The reality is this an excuse to bully the GA Author community by using the only instrument of power you have over them: votes. It’s a group of people that certain NS Gameplayers haven’t been able to control as well as they’d like: a group of people that intimidates them since they can write and read, and they possess soft skills of persuasion.
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Askrieg
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Askrieg » Sun Jan 26, 2025 7:42 am

Unibot III wrote:Repealing the World Assembly Headquarters belies the internal logic of this doctrine — the enabling legislation was far from the most technical or niche: it created a place to host the offices and organization of the WA - basically the first step to forming any international organization. More likely, the arguments presented here are a front for the members’ own intentions: the first and foremost of which is to bully people in the GA Author community and come up with an ideology to justify it.


Wow! An argument which is loaded with hidden intentions and quite possibly, be an extension of its' speaker's interests! Surely this must be something new in NS! Much less made by a bunch of experienced Gameplayers!

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Postby Haymarket Riot » Sun Jan 26, 2025 7:42 am

Unibot III wrote:
Haymarket Riot wrote:I'm going to train my newbies on repealing your stuff.


Haha, good to know I’ve struck a chord :lol2: — most of it is repealed, kiddo. A telling response. Can’t wait to hear about how niche and specific decriminalizing suicide and providing basic education is.

The WA Authors who do debate in this thread are clearly wasting their time. This is not an ideological movement where the participants hope to persuade anybody — it’s a logically incoherent mess produced by a group of folks with axes to grind.

The OP says they want to get away from technical and niche resolutions because of costs and regulatory burden and sovereignty, though the more socially significant resolutions will involve more costs, burden, and infringement of their government’s prerogative; they say they want to target niche legislation and they begin by repealing one of the least niche, least technical resolutions on the books — “the WA needs offices” duh. What’s next, Ban on Trafficking and Slavery?

It’s just a big joke. I’m confused why you bother trying to explain your actions. The reality is this an excuse to bully the GA Author community by using the only instrument of power you have over them: votes. It’s a group of people that certain NS Gameplayers haven’t been able to control as well as they’d like: a group of people that intimidates them since they can write and read, and they possess soft skills of persuasion.

Chill out man
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