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We must change the default flag !

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Scorpialand
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We must change the default flag !

Postby Scorpialand » Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:40 am

I wonder if anyone knows that the default flag is actually the aborigene flag ?
I suggest the default flag name is change to « aborigene flag » and that the default flag will be the one on the top of the list: Aaland Islands. If any game moderator sees that, please, change the name of the default flag to end this no-recognition of the aborigenes.
Thank you

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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:50 am

I think you're looking at the situation the wrong way around. The Aboriginal flag was chosen as the default flag by Max, who is Australian and well aware of its background, and who selected it because he felt it was a good cause - it was a way of showing support. Also, it's a good looking flag.

If it weren't the default flag, it wouldn't otherwise be available as a drop-down option, because it's not the flag of a real-world nation state. So having it as the default flag helps to promote both the flag and the cause.

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Irahon
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Postby Irahon » Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:52 am

Scorpialand wrote:I wonder if anyone knows that the default flag is actually the aborigene flag ?
I suggest the default flag name is change to « aborigene flag » and that the default flag will be the one on the top of the list: Aaland Islands. If any game moderator sees that, please, change the name of the default flag to end this no-recognition of the aborigenes.
Thank you

Hi,
In fact, Max Barry, who created this game, is Australian. We can confidently assume, that he's aware of what flag this is. He chose it on purpose.

And it works. Solely thanks to NS, I know what tbe flag of the Australian native peoples looks like. I wouldn't exactly call this a "no-recognition". ;)

Whether or not the flag of the Aaland Islands looks more beautiful, this would be another debate, but judging by your opening post, this doesn't seem to be your issue with it. :)

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Izern
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Postby Izern » Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:58 am

Too iconic to change. That's my response.
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Scorpialand
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See the problem !

Postby Scorpialand » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:10 am

The problem is not that Max Barry knows it or not, the problem is that people will see this flag as default and not as the Aborigenes flag. That is the problem !

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Vadterland
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Postby Vadterland » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:12 am

This isn't the problem you think it is. Most people on this forum understand that it's the Australian Aboriginal flag, and this forum itself is niche enough that the wider internet isn't going to see that flag in the wild and just think of it as "the flag from Nationstates". If anything this site has made awareness of the flag stronger.
Last edited by Vadterland on Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Hekp
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Postby Hekp » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:15 am

Nahh, I think it does a very good job at spreading awareness. Max is Australian, so obviously, he also knows what the flag stands for.
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Panagouge
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Postby Panagouge » Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:19 am

You want to change it? You'll have to convince Max Barry yourself to overturn twenty years of precedent.
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SherpDaWerp
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Postby SherpDaWerp » Sat Jan 25, 2025 3:50 am

I have, in the past, said that it would be nice if the name was instead something like "Default (Australian Aboriginal)", and that opinion still stands. Eventually - and I truly do mean eventually - I may even get around to actually changing it.
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Elite
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Postby Elite » Sat Jan 25, 2025 4:25 am

Once again, I'm happily throwing my support behind "Default (Australian Aboriginal)" so players realise that it isn't just a flag of lazy puppets. :P

Scorpialand wrote:I wonder if anyone knows that the default flag is actually the aborigene flag ?
I suggest the default flag name is change to « aborigene flag » and that the default flag will be the one on the top of the list: Aaland Islands. If any game moderator sees that, please, change the name of the default flag to end this no-recognition of the aborigenes.
Thank you

Just as an aside, the term "Aborigine" is actually considered to be fairly offensive due to historical connotations. It's better to use "Aboriginal" instead. :)
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Scorpialand
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Postby Scorpialand » Sat Jan 25, 2025 8:29 am

I agree !

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Irahon
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Postby Irahon » Sat Jan 25, 2025 1:24 pm

Elite wrote:Once again, I'm happily throwing my support behind "Default (Australian Aboriginal)" so players realise that it isn't just a flag of lazy puppets. :P

This, on the other hand, is something I'd happily throw my own support at. :) That would make it more unanimous and extend said awareness to players who don't really use the forums all that much and therefore might not necessarily find out on their own.

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The Pacific Northwest
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Postby The Pacific Northwest » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:19 pm

I’m not Australian, or from anywhere in the vicinity of Australia. If it wasn’t for older threads asking about the default flag existing, and my being curious enough to dig up those older threads, I would have no idea that it wasn’t a flag Max Barry created for the specific purpose of being the default flag here. That is what I assumed it was when I first started out because not only was it a flag I’d never seen before, but there was no name attached to it, it was just called “default”.

I agree that it would be better to have it actually labeled as the Australian Aboriginal flag instead. I can’t be the only one who had no idea that that’s what it was for several months.

I do not, however, think the flag itself should be changed.
Last edited by The Pacific Northwest on Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Ice States
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Postby The Ice States » Sat Jan 25, 2025 8:08 pm

SherpDaWerp wrote:I have, in the past, said that it would be nice if the name was instead something like "Default (Australian Aboriginal)", and that opinion still stands. Eventually - and I truly do mean eventually - I may even get around to actually changing it.

I would support this!

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Haganham
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Postby Haganham » Sat Jan 25, 2025 9:12 pm

While I do appreciate the awareness it has brought, it does come with the downside that my minds first response to seeing it flying is to assume the location CTEd and had to refound.

SherpDaWerp wrote:I have, in the past, said that it would be nice if the name was instead something like "Default (Australian Aboriginal)", and that opinion still stands. Eventually - and I truly do mean eventually - I may even get around to actually changing it.

If you put it as Aboriginal Australian it would be second alphabetically, only after aaland islands... which isn't even a nation, or spelled with two A's.
Last edited by Haganham on Sat Jan 25, 2025 9:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Sat Jan 25, 2025 11:08 pm

Haganham wrote:While I do appreciate the awareness it has brought, it does come with the downside that my minds first response to seeing it flying is to assume the location CTEd and had to refound.
Didn't the Australian Aboriginals (and other natives throughout the world) need to "refound" their culture after it was wrecked by European interference?

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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Sun Jan 26, 2025 7:06 am

SherpDaWerp wrote:I have, in the past, said that it would be nice if the name was instead something like "Default (Australian Aboriginal)", and that opinion still stands. Eventually - and I truly do mean eventually - I may even get around to actually changing it.

Feels like something that a certain site owner might have strong views about the exact wording, rather than making the choice without them (just as likely they won't care at all). Personally I've got 0 preference on the naming, but Max might prefer something different with the changes in the Australian landscape re everything since 2003 (or 2002). Or even making the default flag randomising between that and the Torres Strait Islanders one as to make a bit of variety in lists of default flag puppets.

---

I think it's been a great choice for a default flag, but I'll be honest, whenever I see the odd protest in Aussie for the news I wonder why people have NS flags for a second.
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The BlAAtschApen
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Postby The BlAAtschApen » Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:33 am

Flanderlion wrote: Or even making the default flag randomising between that and the Torres Strait Islanders one as to make a bit of variety in lists of default flag puppets.


From a new user perspective it doesn't make sense to have a default that isn't default when it's switching between two options. So I am hesitant to add more "default" flags. Default would lose its meaning.

Now, adding the Torres Strait islander flag on its own, without making it the default, might have some merit. But that's a different discussion.
Last edited by The BlAAtschApen on Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Murias
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Postby Murias » Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:06 pm

I would certainly like more variety in the flags offered by NS, but I think the default flag should stay being called default. It spreads the word regardless of its name.

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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:49 pm

The Torres Strait Islander flag is more complicated, featuring a stylized rendition of a culture-specific headdress, that wouldn't make sense for most nations to have on their flag.

The "yellow circle on black-red bibar" flag is so simple that it really plausibly could be anyone's flag, even if in real life it's the Australian Aboriginals'. It conveys barely more information than "this is a flag".

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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Mon Jan 27, 2025 2:45 am

The BlAAtschApen wrote:
Flanderlion wrote: Or even making the default flag randomising between that and the Torres Strait Islanders one as to make a bit of variety in lists of default flag puppets.


From a new user perspective it doesn't make sense to have a default that isn't default when it's switching between two options. So I am hesitant to add more "default" flags. Default would lose its meaning.

Now, adding the Torres Strait islander flag on its own, without making it the default, might have some merit. But that's a different discussion.

Like, I agree with the logic, and personally don't have any real views on this.

That said, I think it might be something Max actually cares about - as it's the one thing in the game that's been put in relevant to his RL that's not a joke. Just as plausible he doesn't care at all, but if changes are made it's something I think admin should escalate to him rather than making the decision at admin/tech moderator level. Plus even if he doesn't care, others near him might - as although the rest of the world doesn't strongly care about Aussie indigenous issues - Max lives somewhere where it is a flashpoint, and wording, however innocent, can be escalated way out of proportion.
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