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Regarding Nation Imitation and Mimic Cards

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.
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Refuge Isle
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Left-wing Utopia

Regarding Nation Imitation and Mimic Cards

Postby Refuge Isle » Thu Jan 23, 2025 6:08 pm

Greetings all,

This announcement is regarding nations along the naming conventions of "S1 Soops", "S3 Chan Island", "S3 Annihilators of Chan Island", "S3 Morover" and so on -- those intended to mimic aspects of another nation, purporting to be parts of them for meme purposes, or to troll other players when they find their card.

Although we have been aware of S1 Soops for several years, the expansion of nations along this theme has made it more pressing to reach a stronger conclusion about how we address this topic. In November, we deleted S2 Nervun, a nation created to represent the valuable Season 2 card of a former staff member. That it specifically was a former staff member was the primary reason that we removed the nation, out of concern that a player could use S2 Nervun to misrepresent themselves as a moderator and spread disinformation or manipulate others.

Our impersonation policy, sourced by the FAQ, does not allow for "employing a similar name ... i.e. ... Examp13stan, and pretend to be the player Examplestan". This is pretty easily the category of event that's taking place here; however, because our policy generally requires a report to originate from the impersonated party, S2 Nervun's removal left untouched an increasingly uncomfortable status quo of founding imitation nations with impunity unless that first-party report takes place. When it comes to players like Chan Island and Soops, it is possible if not certain that they will never return to the game and, therefore, may never be reported. Consequently, there is a compelling reason to make an exception.

We cannot realistically maintain an expectation that players remain on the site indefinitely in order to file reports about their impersonators due of the fortune or misfortune of being depicted in high-profile trading cards. Therefore, after an extended period of discussion, we have reached a determination where we will no longer be permitting these nations unless they are operated by the nations that they depict. I have removed all of the nations that I've mentioned here, their respective cards from all seasons where applicable, and advise players to not found any more of these nations in the future.

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Comfed
Minister
 
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Founded: Apr 09, 2020
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Postby Comfed » Thu Jan 23, 2025 6:50 pm

Seems like a reasonable decision.

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Staidear
Secretary
 
Posts: 31
Founded: Apr 19, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Staidear » Thu Jan 23, 2025 6:58 pm

Does this apply to nations that just add “new” to the beginning of a nations name? Such as “examplestan” and “new examplestan”
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Genus Salmonea
Civilian
 
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Founded: Nov 23, 2023
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genus Salmonea » Thu Jan 23, 2025 7:11 pm

As a founder of two (2) of these 'meme nations', I respect staff's decision and find it sensible. I'd like to make it clear for posterity's sake that the intentions behind them were ludic, and in no way intended to impersonate nations maliciously.

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Antimonyhampton
Political Columnist
 
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Founded: Oct 06, 2024
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Postby Antimonyhampton » Thu Jan 23, 2025 7:36 pm

Would this nation be violating the rules? Its S4 card was an imitation of Tinhampton's (although made with permission), and the nation as a whole is somewhat a parody of Tinhampton. However, I use this nation for non-card imitation purposes (i.e. using Sophia's RMB), and the name is different enough that it's very easy to see this is not Tinhampton.
explicitly not a puppet of tinhampton; however, tinh has given her permission for this puppet to exist

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The Kharkivan Cossacks
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Founded: Oct 28, 2023
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Kharkivan Cossacks » Fri Jan 24, 2025 8:26 am

Fully understand staffs decision here.

Sort of adding to Esti’s question let’s say I allow someone to make a “S4 The Kharkivan Cossacks”. If it’s made clear it’s an allowed parody by the person being parodied/copied (me) would that not place it under impersonation?
This is not a question with a plan to do it but more a question on a scenario that could plausibly happen.
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Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Kharkivan has done a pretty good hatchet job review of the text, though I’m sure there will be those posting who think this is the best thing since sliced bread.

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United Calanworie
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Postby United Calanworie » Fri Jan 24, 2025 8:54 am

The Kharkivan Cossacks wrote:Fully understand staffs decision here.

Sort of adding to Esti’s question let’s say I allow someone to make a “S4 The Kharkivan Cossacks”. If it’s made clear it’s an allowed parody by the person being parodied/copied (me) would that not place it under impersonation?
This is not a question with a plan to do it but more a question on a scenario that could plausibly happen.

It will not be permitted.
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The Kharkivan Cossacks
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Postby The Kharkivan Cossacks » Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:39 am

United Calanworie wrote:
The Kharkivan Cossacks wrote:Fully understand staffs decision here.

Sort of adding to Esti’s question let’s say I allow someone to make a “S4 The Kharkivan Cossacks”. If it’s made clear it’s an allowed parody by the person being parodied/copied (me) would that not place it under impersonation?
This is not a question with a plan to do it but more a question on a scenario that could plausibly happen.

It will not be permitted.

Thanks for clarifying.
Former WA Delegate of of 222 days and Minister of External and Internal affairs of Imperial World Nations
Former Officer of Integration and current Officer of Public Relations and World Assembly of The Rejected Realms
Lone Wolves United most recent Ghazi
NSGP - All I say is my personal opinion and not that of any org I am in unless specified
Fascists are bad folks no matter how you put it.
"Modern communists" supporting genocidal dictators and taking extremism only drags their cause in the dirt

Borscht is rather nice.

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Kharkivan has done a pretty good hatchet job review of the text, though I’m sure there will be those posting who think this is the best thing since sliced bread.

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Bears Armed
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Founded: Jun 01, 2006
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Postby Bears Armed » Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:57 am

My puppet Old Ceorana was authorised by the player responsible for the original 'Ceorana', which CTEd before cards were first introduced but whose flag this puppet uses. That player has AFAIK, left the game, AFAIK, and the "new" nation's creation that was so long ago that any TG involved in the authorisation has long since been pushed out of my inbox. Unfortunately no other nations [except mine] that were active in the IDU back then still exist, so there are no other players who I can ask to confirm this. (EDIT: There There was probably a Yeldan puppet present, but I doubt whether Yelda was active enough in the region to remember such details...) There might be confirmation available in the IDU's regional forum, I'll check there if you want but don't have enough time online available to do so today.
Last edited by Bears Armed on Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
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Yelda
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Founded: Sep 04, 2004
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Yelda » Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:48 am

Bears Armed wrote:My puppet Old Ceorana was authorised by the player responsible for the original 'Ceorana', which CTEd before cards were first introduced but whose flag this puppet uses. That player has AFAIK, left the game, AFAIK, and the "new" nation's creation that was so long ago that any TG involved in the authorisation has long since been pushed out of my inbox. Unfortunately no other nations [except mine] that were active in the IDU back then still exist, so there are no other players who I can ask to confirm this. (EDIT: There There was probably a Yeldan puppet present, but I doubt whether Yelda was active enough in the region to remember such details...) There might be confirmation available in the IDU's regional forum, I'll check there if you want but don't have enough time online available to do so today.

Franxico was and still is there, and obviously I remember Ceorana. I kinda remember y'all talking about this but no idea if it was on the old forums or something I just saw on the RMB. I've always assumed you had permission to have that puppet.
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Refuge Isle
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Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Fri Jan 24, 2025 3:14 pm

Antimonyhampton wrote:Would this nation be violating the rules? Its S4 card was an imitation of Tinhampton's (although made with permission), and the nation as a whole is somewhat a parody of Tinhampton. However, I use this nation for non-card imitation purposes (i.e. using Sophia's RMB), and the name is different enough that it's very easy to see this is not Tinhampton.

Bears Armed wrote:My puppet Old Ceorana was authorised by the player responsible for the original 'Ceorana', which CTEd before cards were first introduced but whose flag this puppet uses. That player has AFAIK, left the game, AFAIK, and the "new" nation's creation that was so long ago that any TG involved in the authorisation has long since been pushed out of my inbox. Unfortunately no other nations [except mine] that were active in the IDU back then still exist, so there are no other players who I can ask to confirm this. (EDIT: There There was probably a Yeldan puppet present, but I doubt whether Yelda was active enough in the region to remember such details...) There might be confirmation available in the IDU's regional forum, I'll check there if you want but don't have enough time online available to do so today.


This is not what's being discussed. I'm talking about nations literally called "S1 Soops", "S3 Chan Island", "S3 Annihilators of Chan Island", "S3 Morover" and so on. Nations that are created to mimic and look like current and previous seasons of cards, imitating players that they are not, for the purpose of latching onto those cards/players' fame and misrepresenting or impersonating them.

To take one example I know: If you have received permission from Feu de Glace to create the nation Feu de Glass, that's fine. You're not the subject of this announcement, do not fall under the malicious impersonation rule, and need not provide receipts as if exiting a Walmart.

Staidear wrote:Does this apply to nations that just add “new” to the beginning of a nations name? Such as “examplestan” and “new examplestan”

This question is less specific than the others, so I cannot answer it definitively. If you're creating "new examplestan" to imitate "examplestan", then it may be impersonation depending on if the implementation was deemed malicious. If the nation was made just because someone happened to pick the name, has nothing to do with "examplestan", especially if it's a common term or name, it may be fine. Many such cases, etc.

It's a hypothetical and somewhat impossible to judge without context.
Last edited by Refuge Isle on Sat Jan 25, 2025 4:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Knights of LUSITANIA
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 62
Founded: Nov 17, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Knights of LUSITANIA » Sat Jan 25, 2025 9:52 am

Good measure not only to combat the decreased value of long gone oldhead cards, but also stop a weird trend from becoming a "thing"
Now if only card farming was nerfed...
Last edited by Knights of LUSITANIA on Sat Jan 25, 2025 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Murias
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 196
Founded: Feb 28, 2023
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Murias » Sat Jan 25, 2025 10:03 am

Classic case of a joke getting less funny the more it is made.

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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21602
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Jan 27, 2025 10:45 am

Yelda wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:My puppet Old Ceorana was authorised by the player responsible for the original 'Ceorana', which CTEd before cards were first introduced but whose flag this puppet uses. That player has AFAIK, left the game, AFAIK, and the "new" nation's creation that was so long ago that any TG involved in the authorisation has long since been pushed out of my inbox. Unfortunately no other nations [except mine] that were active in the IDU back then still exist, so there are no other players who I can ask to confirm this. (EDIT: There There was probably a Yeldan puppet present, but I doubt whether Yelda was active enough in the region to remember such details...) There might be confirmation available in the IDU's regional forum, I'll check there if you want but don't have enough time online available to do so today.

Franxico was and still is there, and obviously I remember Ceorana. I kinda remember y'all talking about this but no idea if it was on the old forums or something I just saw on the RMB. I've always assumed you had permission to have that puppet.

Thank you.

Refuge Isle wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:My puppet Old Ceorana was authorised by the player responsible for the original 'Ceorana', which CTEd before cards were first introduced but whose flag this puppet uses. That player has AFAIK, left the game, AFAIK, and the "new" nation's creation that was so long ago that any TG involved in the authorisation has long since been pushed out of my inbox. Unfortunately no other nations [except mine] that were active in the IDU back then still exist, so there are no other players who I can ask to confirm this. (EDIT: There There was probably a Yeldan puppet present, but I doubt whether Yelda was active enough in the region to remember such details...) There might be confirmation available in the IDU's regional forum, I'll check there if you want but don't have enough time online available to do so today.


This is not what's being discussed. I'm talking about nations literally called "S1 Soops", "S3 Chan Island", "S3 Annihilators of Chan Island", "S3 Morover" and so on. Nations that are created to mimic and look like current and previous seasons of cards, imitating players that they are not, for the purpose of latching onto those cards/players' fame and misrepresenting or impersonating them.

Okay, thank you, just thought that I'd better check...
Last edited by Bears Armed on Mon Jan 27, 2025 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.


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