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[Draft] Repeal "Injunct Alcatraz"

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Kontrast
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[Draft] Repeal "Injunct Alcatraz"

Postby Kontrast » Sun Jan 12, 2025 4:26 pm

Somehow posted in the Gameplay thread by accident. Glad I caught that. :P
Pretty sure there are no legality issues here, but will change them if necessary. Haven't seen a previous attempt of this, but if anyone has context on that also lmk.

The Security Council,

Observing that Injunctions are often passed with the intent to prevent occupying invader forces from converting a region from Frontier to Stronghold,

Understanding that while these Injuctions are often passed in good faith, they are not always successful in preventing the destruction of the regions they are meant to protect,

Recognizing that this is the very case for the region of Alcatraz, having been completely destroyed and refounded by a large group of invading forces including The Black Hawks, Ijaka, and Osiris,

Maintaining that it was the intent of SC #487 to prevent the transition of Alcatraz from Frontier to Stronghold, and that, as it stands, Alcatraz is a Stronghold regardless due to the refound by the invading forces,

Acknowledging that however unlikely, an Injunction prevents any future attempts at regaining control of the region of Alcatraz for the original native inhabitants,

Hereby Repeals SC #487, “Injunct Alcatraz”


The Security Council,

Observing that Injunctions are often passed with the intent to prevent occupying invader forces from converting a region from a Frontier to a Stronghold,

Understanding that while these Injuctions are often passed in good faith, they are not always successful in preventing the destruction of the regions they are meant to protect,

Recognizing that this is the very case for the region of Alcatraz, having been completely destroyed and re-founded by a large group of invading forces,

Maintaining that it was the intent of SC #487 to prevent the transition of Alcatraz from Frontier to Stronghold, and that, as it stands, Alcatraz is a Stronghold regardless due to the re-found by the invading forces,

Acknowledging that however unlikely, an Injunction prevents any future attempts at regaining control of the region of Alcatraz for the original native inhabitants,

Hereby Repeals SC #487, “Injunct Alcatraz”

removed mention of raider orgs and changed some grammatical errors.
Last edited by Kontrast on Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Astrobolt
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Postby Astrobolt » Sun Jan 12, 2025 5:00 pm

What’s your main?
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Kontrast
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Postby Kontrast » Sun Jan 12, 2025 5:13 pm

Astrobolt wrote:What’s your main?

My main is Conexia, though I would likely submit on whichever nation I have WA on once the proposal is ready, hence why I’m posting from this account.

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Of The Revived Soviet Union
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Postby Of The Revived Soviet Union » Sun Jan 12, 2025 5:16 pm

Kontrast wrote:
Astrobolt wrote:What’s your main?

My main is Conexia, though I would likely submit on whichever nation I have WA on once the proposal is ready, hence why I’m posting from this account.

Would you mind if I Repeal the Liberation?
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Kontrast
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Postby Kontrast » Sun Jan 12, 2025 5:28 pm

Of The Revived Soviet Union wrote:Would you mind if I Repeal the Liberation?

I believe it would be best to wait and see how this attempt goes, at the very least. You should also be way more receptive to the feedback you’ve been getting on all of your current draft proposals, as it seems you’ve established a name for yourself in certain circles, whether that be good or bad.

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Of The Revived Soviet Union
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Postby Of The Revived Soviet Union » Sun Jan 12, 2025 5:57 pm

Kontrast wrote:
Of The Revived Soviet Union wrote:Would you mind if I Repeal the Liberation?

I believe it would be best to wait and see how this attempt goes, at the very least. You should also be way more receptive to the feedback you’ve been getting on all of your current draft proposals, as it seems you’ve established a name for yourself in certain circles, whether that be good or bad.

Ok.

That's all good. Also, any advice on my current GA draft? (I've dumped the SC one for the moment)
Political Views>
https://leftvalues.github.io/results.html?a=11.8&b=54.7&c=53.3&d=57.1&e=42.3&f=33.3&g=29.4
Those are my political positions within the left - I consider myself to be a market socialist, which isn't a surprise. https://politicaltests.github.io/12axes ... &k=31&l=88
This is my 12axes test, which said I'm Revolutionary Socialist.
I stand with Palestine!
LGBTQIA+ Rights are human rights!
Pronouns: He/him. Am a cisgender half-Lebanese guy, but I'm more progressive than most people you'll meet.
'Capitalism and social conservatism are just the political manifestations of narcissism.' - Me.
Fixed my signature for being too long. You're welcome :)

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Fachumonn
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Postby Fachumonn » Sun Jan 12, 2025 6:20 pm

Of The Revived Soviet Union wrote:
Kontrast wrote:I believe it would be best to wait and see how this attempt goes, at the very least. You should also be way more receptive to the feedback you’ve been getting on all of your current draft proposals, as it seems you’ve established a name for yourself in certain circles, whether that be good or bad.

Ok.

That's all good. Also, any advice on my current GA draft? (I've dumped the SC one for the moment)

Bro pls chill.

This is about a liberation. Not you speeding for feedback about your GA proposal.
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Kontrast
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Postby Kontrast » Sun Jan 12, 2025 6:20 pm

Of The Revived Soviet Union wrote:That's all good. Also, any advice on my current GA draft? (I've dumped the SC one for the moment)

No. I’m relatively new to WA proposals myself nor is this the place to discuss your GA proposal.

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Of The Revived Soviet Union
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Postby Of The Revived Soviet Union » Sun Jan 12, 2025 6:27 pm

Kontrast wrote:Somehow posted in the Gameplay thread by accident. Glad I caught that. :P
Pretty sure there are no legality issues here, but will change them if necessary. Haven't seen a previous attempt of this, but if anyone has context on that also lmk.

The Security Council,

Observing that Injunctions are often passed with the intent to prevent occupying invader forces from converting a region from Frontier to Stronghold,

Understanding that while these Injuctions are often passed in good faith, they are not always successful in preventing the destruction of the regions they are meant to protect,

Recognizing that this is the very case for the region of Alcatraz, having been completely destroyed and refounded by a large group of invading forces including The Black Hawks, Ijaka, and Osiris,

Maintaining that it was the intent of SC #487 to prevent the transition of Alcatraz from Frontier to Stronghold, and that, as it stands, Alcatraz is a stronghold regardless due to the refound by the invading forces,

Acknowledging that however unlikely, an Injunction prevents any future attempts at regaining control of the region of Alcatraz for the original native inhabitants,

Hereby Repeals SC #487, “Injunct Alcatraz”

I think doing a few things would be good.
Firstly, referring to Alcatraz as a 'stronghold' isn't a good idea, you should probably define 'stronghold'. Even though all of the playerbase knows what it is, it'll help a lot.
Secondly, refound should be changed to re-founding, re-founded, et cetera. It's not a grammatical error that way.

bit about osiris was entirely wrong and based on hearsay I stupidly believed :)
however, might be worth mentioning Sparkalia and the other regions that participated in the raid as well, not just three of them.

It would also be worthwhile commenting on how raiders actually want the Libjunct resolutions to stay in place because of badges or something along those lines.

there's my awful advice, do what you want with it :)
Last edited by Of The Revived Soviet Union on Sun Jan 12, 2025 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Political Views>
https://leftvalues.github.io/results.html?a=11.8&b=54.7&c=53.3&d=57.1&e=42.3&f=33.3&g=29.4
Those are my political positions within the left - I consider myself to be a market socialist, which isn't a surprise. https://politicaltests.github.io/12axes ... &k=31&l=88
This is my 12axes test, which said I'm Revolutionary Socialist.
I stand with Palestine!
LGBTQIA+ Rights are human rights!
Pronouns: He/him. Am a cisgender half-Lebanese guy, but I'm more progressive than most people you'll meet.
'Capitalism and social conservatism are just the political manifestations of narcissism.' - Me.
Fixed my signature for being too long. You're welcome :)

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Mon Jan 13, 2025 12:08 am

I know the former natives have been scattered from the region, but they should still have a say in this. Do you have their permission to repeal the Injunction?

Second point - given the current political makeup of the SC mentioning the invading forces by name is likely to scupper this attempt. Defenders are determined to not give any permanent recognition to organisations such as TBH, BoM etc.

Also having quickly read the advice you’ve received from the poster above, I would say ignore it. There is no need to define terms such as Stronghold - it’s as much a part of the vocabulary as Feeder, Sinker, etc.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart
Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

Sedgistan wrote:The SC has just has a spate of really shitty ones recently from Northumbria, his Watermelon fanboy…..

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Of The Revived Soviet Union
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Postby Of The Revived Soviet Union » Mon Jan 13, 2025 12:17 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Also having quickly read the advice you’ve received from the poster above, I would say ignore it. There is no need to define terms such as Stronghold - it’s as much a part of the vocabulary as Feeder, Sinker, etc.

quickly noting that Stronghold regions are an unofficial name for regions controlled fully by a Gov, while Sinker, Feeder, and whatnot are official.
Political Views>
https://leftvalues.github.io/results.html?a=11.8&b=54.7&c=53.3&d=57.1&e=42.3&f=33.3&g=29.4
Those are my political positions within the left - I consider myself to be a market socialist, which isn't a surprise. https://politicaltests.github.io/12axes ... &k=31&l=88
This is my 12axes test, which said I'm Revolutionary Socialist.
I stand with Palestine!
LGBTQIA+ Rights are human rights!
Pronouns: He/him. Am a cisgender half-Lebanese guy, but I'm more progressive than most people you'll meet.
'Capitalism and social conservatism are just the political manifestations of narcissism.' - Me.
Fixed my signature for being too long. You're welcome :)

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Kontrast
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Postby Kontrast » Mon Jan 13, 2025 12:21 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:I know the former natives have been scattered from the region, but they should still have a say in this. Do you have their permission to repeal the Injunction?

Second point - given the current political makeup of the SC mentioning the invading forces by name is likely to scupper this attempt. Defenders are determined to not give any permanent recognition to organisations such as TBH, BoM etc.

Also having quickly read the advice you’ve received from the poster above, I would say ignore it. There is no need to define terms such as Stronghold - it’s as much a part of the vocabulary as Feeder, Sinker, etc.

Hello,

Telegram to Maniaca is currently awaiting a response. I will update (or they will update here) when/if I receive one. I chose to submit it as a draft regardless so that I can still receive critical feedback, and so that this may serve as an example should this draft not receive their blessings for future SC authors considering the same proposal.

Second, I will consider removing the mentions of those organizations probably tomorrow when I’m not on mobile. I don’t have an issue removing them and was a bit reluctant to include them in the first place.

Thanks for the tips, feedback goes a long way for someone new to this whole thing :)
Last edited by Kontrast on Mon Jan 13, 2025 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:26 am

Of The Revived Soviet Union wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Also having quickly read the advice you’ve received from the poster above, I would say ignore it. There is no need to define terms such as Stronghold - it’s as much a part of the vocabulary as Feeder, Sinker, etc.

quickly noting that Stronghold regions are an unofficial name for regions controlled fully by a Gov, while Sinker, Feeder, and whatnot are official.

Quickly noting that once again you are wrong. Stronghold/Frontier are the official names for such regions. Suggest you go and read the appropriate thread in the Technical forum.
Kontrast wrote:Hello,

Telegram to Maniaca is currently awaiting a response. I will update (or they will update here) when/if I receive one. I chose to submit it as a draft regardless so that I can still receive critical feedback, and so that this may serve as an example should this draft not receive their blessings for future SC authors considering the same proposal.

Second, I will consider removing the mentions of those organizations probably tomorrow when I’m not on mobile. I don’t have an issue removing them and was a bit reluctant to include them in the first place.

Thanks for the tips, feedback goes a long way for someone new to this whole thing :)

I’ll wait and see what feedback you get from ex-residents of the region before commenting in detail on your draft.

I will say that I believe it can be improved and as this is not a time critical situation you should take the opportunity to do that.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Mon Jan 13, 2025 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart
Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

Sedgistan wrote:The SC has just has a spate of really shitty ones recently from Northumbria, his Watermelon fanboy…..

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Rhaza
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Postby Rhaza » Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:57 am

He might be correct on Stronghold, BBD. It was in the drafts for the update launch and discussion but to my knowledge wasn’t included in the announcement, nor is it a region tag or shown at the top of the region page. Not that it matters much, that’s menial and this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about in general.

Edit: I’d add that even though he’s correct on that there’s no reason it can’t be in the proposal. In fact it should stay, in my view. Words are defined by the people who use them and the game overwhelmingly uses the term to refer to regions with Governors, or otherwise non-Frontiers and non-GCRs.
Last edited by Rhaza on Mon Jan 13, 2025 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Mon Jan 13, 2025 6:47 am

"Stronghold" was dropped as an official term prior to launch of the Frontiers project; they are just considered regular regions that didn't need an official term. As Rhaza says, there's nothing stopping players from using it, as many seem to.

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Mon Jan 13, 2025 8:57 am

Common usage then rather than an official term. No probs, it still doesn’t need defining in an SC draft.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart
Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

Sedgistan wrote:The SC has just has a spate of really shitty ones recently from Northumbria, his Watermelon fanboy…..

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Kontrast
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Postby Kontrast » Mon Jan 13, 2025 12:47 pm

As of today Maniaca has pledged their support for this proposal, so I will be moving forward with it. As for the feedback given, I will work on implementing suggestions sometime soon when I have the time to really look everything over again.

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Of The Revived Soviet Union
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Postby Of The Revived Soviet Union » Mon Jan 13, 2025 3:06 pm

Sedgistan wrote:"Stronghold" was dropped as an official term prior to launch of the Frontiers project; they are just considered regular regions that didn't need an official term. As Rhaza says, there's nothing stopping players from using it, as many seem to.

Hence, my noting of that.

I wasn't saying that Stronghold regions had any problems, I was saying that Strongholds are not official terms and may need to be defined.

However, I've been proven wrong on the latter part.
Political Views>
https://leftvalues.github.io/results.html?a=11.8&b=54.7&c=53.3&d=57.1&e=42.3&f=33.3&g=29.4
Those are my political positions within the left - I consider myself to be a market socialist, which isn't a surprise. https://politicaltests.github.io/12axes ... &k=31&l=88
This is my 12axes test, which said I'm Revolutionary Socialist.
I stand with Palestine!
LGBTQIA+ Rights are human rights!
Pronouns: He/him. Am a cisgender half-Lebanese guy, but I'm more progressive than most people you'll meet.
'Capitalism and social conservatism are just the political manifestations of narcissism.' - Me.
Fixed my signature for being too long. You're welcome :)

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:56 am

A suggestion: your current draft is okay, but bland. Maybe read the original Injunction and try and work in some of the themes that Westinor used. Obviously don’t copy, but use their work for inspiration.

You have the time.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart
Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

Sedgistan wrote:The SC has just has a spate of really shitty ones recently from Northumbria, his Watermelon fanboy…..

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The Sapientia
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Postby The Sapientia » Tue Jan 14, 2025 7:46 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Of The Revived Soviet Union wrote:quickly noting that Stronghold regions are an unofficial name for regions controlled fully by a Gov, while Sinker, Feeder, and whatnot are official.

Quickly noting that once again you are wrong. Stronghold/Frontier are the official names for such regions. Suggest you go and read the appropriate thread in the Technical forum.


do you feel a little bit silly now
BoM Veteran Assassin | Former MoMA of the South Pacific (Current threat to Regional Security)| TNP Security Officer

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Jan 14, 2025 8:00 am

The Sapientia wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Quickly noting that once again you are wrong. Stronghold/Frontier are the official names for such regions. Suggest you go and read the appropriate thread in the Technical forum.


do you feel a little bit silly now

Not in the least bit sunshine.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart
Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

Sedgistan wrote:The SC has just has a spate of really shitty ones recently from Northumbria, his Watermelon fanboy…..

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The Sapientia
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Postby The Sapientia » Tue Jan 14, 2025 8:13 am

I'm starting to think you did actually feel a little bit silly
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Maniaca
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Postby Maniaca » Tue Jan 14, 2025 10:26 am

Best of luck with your efforts to repeal the injunction, many thanks


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