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Who was the best medieval leader?

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Russian Brotherhood
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Who was the best medieval leader?

Postby Russian Brotherhood » Sun Dec 29, 2024 10:58 am

The medieval era lasted from the 5th to the late 15th centuries, during this time many leaders such as Saladin or Alfred. So who do you think is the best medieval leader, the one that led the best? Including battles a true force to be reckoned with. Prowess and the strength to both lead an army and a people is what makes a great king, so who do you think is the best king or ruler of the medieval era?

I believe that King Baldwin IV was the best medieval leader ever, he led a battle against one of the best kingdoms. He led an army at 15 and with the Battle of Montgisard, he took 3,000–4,500 men but would lead against Saladin with his number of troops at around ~ 21,000–26,000 men. He would almost kill the whole army only taking 1,100 deaths, he would then develop leprosy and show strength, he was a true king.
Last edited by Russian Brotherhood on Sun Dec 29, 2024 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Saiwana » Sun Dec 29, 2024 11:09 am

Charles Martel, he is the savior of Europe from Islam's invasion from Spain and North Africa.
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sun Dec 29, 2024 11:12 am

Charlemagne. I also like Olga of Kiev. Fierce woman in power.
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Postby Russian Brotherhood » Sun Dec 29, 2024 11:13 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Charlemagne. I also like Olga of Kiev. Fierce woman in power.

Charlemagne was a great leader, but his kingdom fell really quickly.
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Postby Risottia » Sun Dec 29, 2024 12:57 pm

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Postby Digital Planets » Sun Dec 29, 2024 12:58 pm

Me, of course.
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Postby Thuravia » Sun Dec 29, 2024 12:59 pm

Charlemagne
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Postby Green Lodge » Sun Dec 29, 2024 1:07 pm

Saint Louis IX of France. He is the pinnacle of medieval good government, just and a friend of the poor. He was just unlucky in the last two crusades.
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Postby Adamede » Sun Dec 29, 2024 1:08 pm

Imho despite only getting epithet centuries later Alfred of Wessex was the only king I’ve learned of who truly deserved the title “the great”.

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Postby Nerasian Empire » Sun Dec 29, 2024 1:09 pm

Saladin
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Postby Eyanfaonie » Sun Dec 29, 2024 1:12 pm

Stalin :bow:
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Postby Floofybit » Sun Dec 29, 2024 1:58 pm

Digital Planets wrote:Me, of course.

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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Dec 29, 2024 2:25 pm

Russian Brotherhood wrote:I believe that King Baldwin IV was the best medieval leader ever, he led a battle against one of the best kingdoms. He led an army at 15 and with the Battle of Montgisard, he took 3,000–4,500 men but would lead against Saladin with his number of troops at around ~ 21,000–26,000 men. He would almost kill the whole army only taking 1,100 deaths, he would then develop leprosy and show strength, he was a true king.


I'm sorry, but that's just silly.

Clearly Baldwin IV had some military skill, but he was only king for 11 years - and only ruling in his own right for 9 of those - and his kingdom was torn apart by dissension and catastrophic military failure just two years and four months after his death.

His victory at Montisgard was remarkable, but two qualifiers here... it was the only really undisputed battlefield military victory of his reign where he personally led his troops, and the number of troops you cite as being led by Saladin is widely held to be a contemporary exaggeration by William of Tyre; it's essentially medieval propaganda by a supporter of the king designed to make Baldwin's victory seem more dramatic. Near-contemporary Ayyubid sources put the figure at something closer to 8,500 (possibly supplemented by light auxiliaries) - still larger than Baldwin's army, absolutely, but not even close to William of Tyre's figure.

Even if I just focus on the Byzantine Empire, Baldwin is an insignificant footnote in medieval military history compared to such commanders as Belisarius, Leo III, Heraclius, Basil II, John Tzimiskes, or Nicephorus II

Even in Baldwin IV's immediate context, Saladin won far more consequential victories over Crusader armies than anything achieved by Baldwin IV over Saladin. Hattin easily eclipses Montisgard for military significance.

And even without worrying about Western Europe, there's non-Byzantine figures like Subutai, Tamerlane, or Khalid Ibn al-Walid... Baldwin IV a better military leader than any of those? Please; that's just historically illiterate nonsense.


Edit:

While we're at it...

Russian Brotherhood wrote:he would then develop leprosy and show strength, he was a true king.


Baldwin already had leprosy at Montisgard, he didn't develop it after the battle. He just wasn't incapacitated by it yet. Baldwin developed leprosy before he became king in 1174, it had become visible and unavoidable by the time the regency ended in 1176, the battle of Montisgard was in 1177, and Baldwin became incapacitated by his medical condition somewhere around 1183, dying in 1185.
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Sun Dec 29, 2024 2:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby Corporate Collective Salvation » Sun Dec 29, 2024 2:38 pm

Nerasian Empire wrote:Saladin

Interestingly someone who is regarded more highly among western historians than Moslem.
He has almost no legacy despite his victories for Islam at that time.
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Postby Kreigsreich of Iron » Sun Dec 29, 2024 2:41 pm

Charlemagne of France.


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Postby Western European Khilafat » Sun Dec 29, 2024 2:43 pm

Not exactly a leader but Khalid ibn Al-Walid (may Allah be pleased with him)
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Postby Ethel mermania » Sun Dec 29, 2024 3:02 pm

Genghis Khan.

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Postby Slembana » Sun Dec 29, 2024 3:05 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:Genghis Khan.

I would say Richard the third but someone here put his ass in a parking lot.

Genghis Khan was a fucker, in the literal sense. Apparently 16 million men who were alive as of 2022 are descended from him.
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Postby Adamede » Sun Dec 29, 2024 3:05 pm

Slembana wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Genghis Khan.

I would say Richard the third but someone here put his ass in a parking lot.

Genghis Khan was a fucker, in the literal sense. Apparently 16 million men who were alive as of 2022 are descended from him.

Most medieval leaders were.

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Western European Khilafat
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Postby Western European Khilafat » Sun Dec 29, 2024 3:27 pm

Slembana wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Genghis Khan.

I would say Richard the third but someone here put his ass in a parking lot.

Genghis Khan was a fucker, in the literal sense. Apparently 16 million men who were alive as of 2022 are descended from him.

As a Bangladeshi, I want to say me, but we've probably been rice farmers for the past centuries.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Dec 29, 2024 3:46 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:I would say Richard the third but someone here put his ass in a parking lot.


I did no such thing.

Rather my friends and colleagues helped remove him from said car park.

Next you'll be blaming me for starting a global pandemic or seducing the underage daughter of my mentor. As if.

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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Dec 29, 2024 3:50 pm

Slembana wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Genghis Khan.

I would say Richard the third but someone here put his ass in a parking lot.

Genghis Khan was a fucker, in the literal sense. Apparently 16 million men who were alive as of 2022 are descended from him.


Firstly, the oft-cited '16 million' study was undertaken in 2003, not 2022.

Secondly, said oft-cited study was very likely wrong. See here.

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