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Remanifest Destiny: a new imperialist US under Trump?

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Durius
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Remanifest Destiny: a new imperialist US under Trump?

Postby Durius » Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:48 am

From renewed claims of wanting to buy Greenland (1), inherited from his first administration, to jokes about making Canada the 51st state (2), talks about invading Mexico to fight cartels (3), and threats of regaining control of the Panama Canal (3), Trump is setting up an imperialistic discourse unseen for decades in the Western world. Now, these might very much all be jokes, but as he is set to become the president of the strongest nation in the world, this discourse, not unlike we hear from Russia, or witnessed from Nazi Germany, or the Scramble for Africa, are sure to leave many nations very uncomfortable.

Do you think this is just the typical Trump discourses that seek to scare partners into submission or are we seeing the birth of a new age of direct American imperial and colonialism?

The increase of talk ahead of his reinvestiture makes me somewhat doubt it is all a joke. US share of world's power has been diminishing. Despite being the clear leading military and economical powerhouse, alliances are being formed that might collectively challenge American dominance, with those spearheaded by China being the clearest examples. It certainly wouldn't make sense for the US to be antagonizing allies in this scenario. It could just Trump being Trump, after all, and this is all rhetoric.

On the other hand, contrary to Europe, the US is in a position and has most the resources to pursue a somewhat isolationist stance, something that Trump hinted to, and even Biden pursued. I don't find it inconceivable that the new policy is to recognize that the US lost the monopoly, the international system, be it economic, military, or diplomatic, that they set up and so much benefited America is crumbling, thus they are setting the stage for a time when American influence retreats to its shores.

And this is why I find Trump's targets for jokes about annexation so far are far from innocent. Greenland is rich in resources which would complement America's attempted autarky. Greenland also sits at a strategic location in the Arctic, where the US already has military bases. Finally, the US is wary of growing Chinese influence in the nation. Annexation could be beneficial to the US, which could mean that the opinion of Greenland or even Denmark might not matter much. Canada too, obviously would provide direct access to resources and extended America's protection and influence in the North. Finally, the Panama Canal is still crucial for the US and ensure it is always open to them (and possibly closed to others like China) is a top priority.

Thus, despite still being skeptic about Trump actual imperialist drive, I cannot fully shake it off. The fact that comments on social media on reports about these topics feature plenty of cheers for annexation from the MAGA crowd (or bots) doesn't help either. So, do you read this? Is the US turning back to imperialism and, if so, how do you think the world will react?

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Postby Turenia » Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:50 am

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Postby Kerwa » Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:51 am

“Turning back”. Lol.

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Postby Liberal Malaysia » Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:54 am

Jokes are jokes are jokes. The OP is reading too much into it. When Trump joked about how he would like to "govern as a dictator" and he and everyone in the room were laughing and smiling, the legacy media took his remarks at face value and made lemons out of lemonade. Ultimately, the joke's on them.
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Postby Kavagrad » Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:55 am

Durius wrote:Is the US turning back to imperialism

It never turned away in the first place, and this is only slightly more brazen.
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Durius
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Postby Durius » Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:56 am

Kavagrad wrote:
Durius wrote:Is the US turning back to imperialism

It never turned away in the first place, and this is only slightly more brazen.

And I've took care to make that distinction in my post. These type of comments add nothing to the discussion.

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Postby Riugersect » Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:57 am

Oh boy, time for Manifest Destiny 2: Electric Boogaloo

In all seriousness, I do think trump will stray towards unneeded military force, who knows, might be another World War.
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Postby Liberal Malaysia » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:07 am

I wish America would conquer us all. We'd all be so much better off.
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Postby Nea Skotia » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:12 am

Liberal Malaysia wrote:I wish America would conquer us all. We'd all be so much better off.

You might wanna lay off whatever substance makes you think that's even remotely anything but a Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Idea™.
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Postby Almighty Biden » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:12 am

Liberal Malaysia wrote:I wish America would conquer us all. We'd all be so much better off.

No. Just no.
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Postby Malorossi » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:14 am

Liberal Malaysia wrote:I wish America would conquer us all. We'd all be so much better off.

Ask Mosul and Belgrade if they are living well after America's arrival?
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Postby Nea Skotia » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:14 am

Malorossi wrote:
Liberal Malaysia wrote:I wish America would conquer us all. We'd all be so much better off.

Ask Mosul and Belgrade if they are living well after America's arrival?

Or Kabul, or Benghazi...
Last edited by Nea Skotia on Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Lazarene Republic
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Postby The Lazarene Republic » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:16 am

Liberal Malaysia wrote:Jokes are jokes are jokes. The OP is reading too much into it. When Trump joked about how he would like to "govern as a dictator" and he and everyone in the room were laughing and smiling, the legacy media took his remarks at face value and made lemons out of lemonade. Ultimately, the joke's on them.

Liberal Malaysia wrote:I wish America would conquer us all. We'd all be so much better off.

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The Lazarene Republic
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Postby The Lazarene Republic » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:17 am

Malorossi wrote:
Liberal Malaysia wrote:I wish America would conquer us all. We'd all be so much better off.

Ask Mosul and Belgrade if they are living well after America's arrival?

Frankly, I don’t care how Serbians feel about reaping the consequences for perpetrating a genocide.

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Liberal Malaysia
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Postby Liberal Malaysia » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:25 am

Malorossi wrote:
Liberal Malaysia wrote:I wish America would conquer us all. We'd all be so much better off.

Ask Mosul and Belgrade if they are living well after America's arrival?


I know my country would be in far better shape if U.S. troops came, overthrew our racist government and our total embarrassment of a prime minister, and appointed a colonial governor to institute true religious freedom, racial equality and absolute freedom of speech for all. Even better if they encourage millions of Americans to come settle here and outnumber us. I would welcome the Americans with open arms and embrace them as our saviors and protectors against the radical far-right Islamists at home and the CCP on our doorstep, especially with Donald Trump in charge. Our corrupt, overbloated government would be radically downsized Argentina-style and freedom would reign supreme.

My fictional nation literally explores such a scenario, except it's a nominally independent nation.

If the U.S. conquered HK, freedom and democracy would return with a vengeance.
Last edited by Liberal Malaysia on Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nilokeras » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:26 am

The irony is that Trump is both the originator and the biggest hindrance to any sort of belligerent foreign policy. Coming up with ideas like annexing the Panama Canal are one thing, but actually executing on them by necessity requires him to delegate to others in order to handle the practicalities, which is something he hates doing. Not that he's some sort of type-A micromanager, but he hates having the limelight taken from him and hates his subordinates having too much independence from him, and that is something that has to happen when you execute on something as complex as an invasion.

Plus his brain is basically soup at this point so I have my doubts he has the attention span to commit to anything like an imperialist agenda.
Last edited by Nilokeras on Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Almighty Biden » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:26 am

Liberal Malaysia wrote:
Malorossi wrote:Ask Mosul and Belgrade if they are living well after America's arrival?


I know my country would be in far better shape if U.S. troops came, overthrew our racist government and our total embarrassment of a prime minister, and appointed a colonial governor to institute true religious freedom, racial equality and absolute freedom of speech for all. Even better if they encourage millions of Americans to come settle here and outnumber us. I would welcome the Americans with open arms and embrace them as our saviors and protectors against the radical far-right Islamists at home and the CCP on our doorstep, especially with Donald Trump in charge. Our corrupt, overbloated government would be radically downsized Argentina-style and freedom would reign supreme.

My fictional nation literally explores such a scenario, except it's a nominally independent nation.

If the U.S. conquered HK, freedom and democracy would return with a vengeance.

That reminds me of when the US occupied the Philippines. We all know how well that went
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Postby Nilokeras » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:28 am

Liberal Malaysia wrote:
Malorossi wrote:Ask Mosul and Belgrade if they are living well after America's arrival?


I know my country would be in far better shape if U.S. troops came, overthrew our racist government and our total embarrassment of a prime minister, and appointed a colonial governor to institute true religious freedom, racial equality and absolute freedom of speech for all. Even better if they encourage millions of Americans to come settle here and outnumber us. I would welcome the Americans with open arms and embrace them as our saviors and protectors against the radical far-right Islamists at home and the CCP on our doorstep, especially with Donald Trump in charge. Our corrupt, overbloated government would be radically downsized Argentina-style and freedom would reign supreme.

My fictional nation literally explores such a scenario, except it's a nominally independent nation.

If the U.S. conquered HK, freedom and democracy would return with a vengeance.


you really are a cargo cultist huh

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Postby The Jamesian Republic » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:30 am

Liberal Malaysia wrote:
Malorossi wrote:Ask Mosul and Belgrade if they are living well after America's arrival?


I know my country would be in far better shape if U.S. troops came, overthrew our racist government and our total embarrassment of a prime minister, and appointed a colonial governor to institute true religious freedom, racial equality and absolute freedom of speech for all. Even better if they encourage millions of Americans to come settle here and outnumber us. I would welcome the Americans with open arms and embrace them as our saviors and protectors against the radical far-right Islamists at home and the CCP on our doorstep, especially with Donald Trump in charge. Our corrupt, overbloated government would be radically downsized Argentina-style and freedom would reign supreme.

My fictional nation literally explores such a scenario, except it's a nominally independent nation.

If the U.S. conquered HK, freedom and democracy would return with a vengeance.


Or how about we do overthrow your government but we don’t replace your people and colonize your country. Instead my manifesto gets published in Malaysian and Malaysia becomes a model for my ideal country!

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Liberal Malaysia
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Postby Liberal Malaysia » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:32 am

Almighty Biden wrote:
Liberal Malaysia wrote:
I know my country would be in far better shape if U.S. troops came, overthrew our racist government and our total embarrassment of a prime minister, and appointed a colonial governor to institute true religious freedom, racial equality and absolute freedom of speech for all. Even better if they encourage millions of Americans to come settle here and outnumber us. I would welcome the Americans with open arms and embrace them as our saviors and protectors against the radical far-right Islamists at home and the CCP on our doorstep, especially with Donald Trump in charge. Our corrupt, overbloated government would be radically downsized Argentina-style and freedom would reign supreme.

My fictional nation literally explores such a scenario, except it's a nominally independent nation.

If the U.S. conquered HK, freedom and democracy would return with a vengeance.

That reminds me of when the US occupied the Philippines. We all know how well that went


Personally, I don't care what the locals in my country think. They ought to come around to the idea that American values are good for us. That freedom of speech is a good thing. That treating non-Muslims and minorities equally is a good thing. That over-relying on the government teat is a bad thing, especially when it specifically favors certain races over others. My country is not worthy of independence.

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Postby Stellar Colonies » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:34 am

Trump says a lot of shit which doesn’t ultimately happen, but I don’t like how he’s injecting these ideas into circulation. There are other, more internationally friendly ways to ensure the US remains secure than taking notes from the playbooks of countries like Russia or the [19th century] US.
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Postby Liberal Malaysia » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:40 am

To answer the OP's question, unfortunately no, the U.S. is not going to revert to imperialism. As for how the world would react, that would depend on whether American imperialism is benevolent or malevolent and whether the inhabitants in question love or hate America and what it stands for. Arabs and Muslims would be far more resistant to U.S. rule. Israelis and Hong Kongers, far less so.
FUCK PALESTINE. STAND WITH ISRAEL.
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How non-Muslim infidels are ACTUALLY treated in Islam
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Postby Necroghastia » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:41 am

Liberal Malaysia wrote:I wish America would conquer us all. We'd all be so much better off.

worked out great for the natives after all
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Postby Washington-Columbia » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:44 am

Liberal Malaysia wrote:unfortunately no, the U.S. is not going to revert to imperialism.


"unfortunately"

Says a lot with how "unfortunate" that America doesn't want to become the world's Oceania.
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Postby Pale Dawn » Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:55 am

Durius wrote:
Do you think this is just the typical Trump discourses that seek to scare partners into submission or are we seeing the birth of a new age of direct American imperial and colonialism?


Initially I was impressed you even put this much effort into things that trump has said to flesh out a post. I think trump will continue the more isolationist direction although far from ever reach it. I believe his sword raddling is meant to set the stage for "tough conversations" and pressured into seeing things his way. This assumes the continuation of the international status quo, no russian/NATO or China/US war. If a major event on that scale occurs then yeah maybe Greenland will become a reasonable Atlantic shield and resource node.
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