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[SUBMITTED] Repeal: "Airline Safety And Comfort Disclosures"

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National Coraland of Fishery
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[SUBMITTED] Repeal: "Airline Safety And Comfort Disclosures"

Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Wed Dec 18, 2024 11:56 pm

The World Assembly,

Recognizing the importance of air travel in facilitating global connectivity and economic development, and the potential need for transparency in airline operations,

Believing that not all consumer protections are created equally, and the minutiae of specific industries should usually remain within the jurisdiction of individual members unless a grave humanitarian or international need is shown,

Frustrated that the target resolution, “Airline Safety And Comfort Disclosures,” contains numerous flaws that make compliance overly burdensome and its mandates confusing and impractical, including:

  • Mandating all customary languages be used in distributed materials in 3(e), even for Indigenous languages or non-technical languages for which translating information may be difficult or impossible; and
  • Strangely and inappropriately implementing regulations on cannibalism in 6(b);

Concerned that the resolution creates difficulty in arranging flights between members and non-members, as such arrangements must follow World Assembly protocol as per 2(b), which for many non-members may cause hesitation as additional bureaucratic hurdles infringe on their bottom line.

Disappointed that 7(a) discourages third-party entities (i.e. employers) from paying for flights on behalf of passengers (i.e. employees) because the passenger gets the refund or free rebooking in the case of a canceled flight as opposed to the person who paid for the flight.

Believing that the meager benefits of consumers having slightly more useful information do not outweigh the commercial implications nor the sheer quantity of paperwork required, most of which is not of interest to passengers, and

Confident that a replacement resolution can address consumer rights sufficiently and that the target resolution does not meaningfully add to these rights,

Hereby repeals “Airline Safety And Comfort Disclosures.”
Coauthor: Haymarket Riot, Bisofeyr.

Link: https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_past_resolution/id=722/council=1
Last edited by National Coraland of Fishery on Mon Jan 20, 2025 10:40 pm, edited 19 times in total.
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Wed Dec 18, 2024 11:59 pm

Bullet Points will be fixed in the proposal.
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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New Kowloon Bay
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Postby New Kowloon Bay » Thu Dec 19, 2024 6:48 am

I would support a repeal(in fact I did an outline of one during the summer but sat on it too long, and now there's been two attempts already), but I have a few points.

1. Under clause 1, how I see it, are you saying that we should disregard the safety of people who fly flights which are paid via 'air miles' or an equivalent loyalty program; or employees who are just flying across the country? Why shouldn't these flights be subject to the airline safety and comfort disclosures? I feel like an employee of a company, or someone who's been loyal to an airline for so long they can exchange 'miles' for flights, should still deserve some form of knowledge about the flight.

2. Under clause 2, I'm not sure what you mean by "all languages commonly used in Washington." Where's that? I think you could just quote the proposal in saying "all languages customarily used".

3. Clause 3b, I don't think that the 'zooming into' the example of whether passengers are served food or passengers are served as food is really needed. I believe there's probably some space for humor in a resolution. Next, you state previously that carriers disclosing cultural and religious practices of the flag state risks "cultural misunderstandings." Wouldn't something like knowing whether saying "Thanks for the meal" in Kowloonese actually means "I hope you die" - i.e. prevent these misunderstandings happening?

4. "Requiring carriers to indicate dietary compliance for in-flight meals...adds unnecessary details." I believe that if someone is allergic to nuts, the airline should probably be mandated to tell me that my meal has nuts in it. Someone going into anaphylactic shock and dying isn't an "unnecessary detail" in my book.

5. For the last line: "Confident that air travel consumer rights are better handled in resolutions that are free of the defects shown in the target resolution."
Last edited by New Kowloon Bay on Thu Dec 19, 2024 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Thu Dec 19, 2024 10:09 am

New Kowloon Bay wrote:Snip

Noted
Last edited by National Coraland of Fishery on Thu Dec 19, 2024 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Thu Dec 19, 2024 11:54 am

Fixed and bumped for more feedback on the second draft.
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Fri Dec 20, 2024 3:05 pm

Bump
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Sun Dec 22, 2024 2:05 am

Bump last time before last call
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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New Kowloon Bay
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Postby New Kowloon Bay » Sun Dec 22, 2024 2:34 am

National Coraland of Fishery wrote:Bump last time before last call


I actually don't get the argument for 3 you're making here. You state that the demand for carriers to disclose cultural and religious practices as well as the laws "risks perpetuating stereotypes or cultural misunderstandings." Why? Surely knowing a bit more about the country you're going to, such as whether waving at them is a direct insult, would actually reduce cultural misunderstandings?
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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Sun Dec 22, 2024 3:51 am

New Kowloon Bay wrote:
National Coraland of Fishery wrote:Bump last time before last call


I actually don't get the argument for 3 you're making here. You state that the demand for carriers to disclose cultural and religious practices as well as the laws "risks perpetuating stereotypes or cultural misunderstandings." Why? Surely knowing a bit more about the country you're going to, such as whether waving at them is a direct insult, would actually reduce cultural misunderstandings?

True, but If carriers are required ( as said in the resolution) to summarize complex cultural or religious practices in a brief disclosure, there's a chance the explanation could lack nuance, leading to misconceptions about the people or their traditions.

Information provided without sufficient context ("this gesture is offensive in X country") might be misunderstood or even come across as trivializing the culture.
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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New Kowloon Bay
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Postby New Kowloon Bay » Sun Dec 22, 2024 8:24 am

National Coraland of Fishery wrote:True, but If carriers are required ( as said in the resolution) to summarize complex cultural or religious practices in a brief disclosure, there's a chance the explanation could lack nuance, leading to misconceptions about the people or their traditions.

Information provided without sufficient context ("this gesture is offensive in X country") might be misunderstood or even come across as trivializing the culture.

I see your point there. I think you could probably change clause 3a to something like:

The demand for carriers to disclose cultural and religious practices of the flag state, as well as differences in laws regarding sapient rights in a brief disclosure will lead to the disclosure being overly vague and in fact cause more cultural misunderstandings.




Some more things:

As I see it right now, why does "the inclusion of loyalty flight programs...reveal a lack of substantive consumer protection issues"? I don't get what you're going at.

The penultimate sentence: "...resolutions with the improved draft..." What improved draft? Will you be planning a replacement?

And finally, a quotation from Simone Republic (whose views on the topic I disagree with, but I find may be useful to you), which could be the basis of some challenges of your repeal:
Simone Republic wrote:I think most comments ignore a basic IRL fact: all of this information is already tracked by any commercial airline subject to ICAO regulations. For example, any changes to seat pitch (and how much a seat reclines) affects evacuation in the event of a fire (within 90 seconds usually). Every important spare part out of four million is tracked. Every member of the crew is already briefed in the conditions of the aircraft prior to departure. There isn't anything in here that isn't already available somewhere within the operations of any self-respecting airline in compliance with ICAO.

The disclosure can be a single document printed out of a laser printer and stuck in a ring binder next to the departure gate. Most airlines actually already have this at hand for crew and ground staff (although usually on an iPad these days, but the ring binders were around up to the mid-2000s before smartphones came along). Printing a page out and sticking it in a ring binder is no more complex than printing a new boarding pass.

(4)(b) "the customary cultural, religious, and other practices of the flag state" is actually a euphemism for the videos commonly shown in certain international flights that "two ounces of cocaine on you when you land means automatic death sentence with a bullet to your head".
Writer of GA#665

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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Sun Dec 22, 2024 1:18 pm

New Kowloon Bay wrote:
National Coraland of Fishery wrote:True, but If carriers are required ( as said in the resolution) to summarize complex cultural or religious practices in a brief disclosure, there's a chance the explanation could lack nuance, leading to misconceptions about the people or their traditions.

Information provided without sufficient context ("this gesture is offensive in X country") might be misunderstood or even come across as trivializing the culture.

I see your point there. I think you could probably change clause 3a to something like:

The demand for carriers to disclose cultural and religious practices of the flag state, as well as differences in laws regarding sapient rights in a brief disclosure will lead to the disclosure being overly vague and in fact cause more cultural misunderstandings.




Some more things:

As I see it right now, why does "the inclusion of loyalty flight programs...reveal a lack of substantive consumer protection issues"? I don't get what you're going at.

The penultimate sentence: "...resolutions with the improved draft..." What improved draft? Will you be planning a replacement?

And finally, a quotation from Simone Republic (whose views on the topic I disagree with, but I find may be useful to you), which could be the basis of some challenges of your repeal:
Simone Republic wrote:I think most comments ignore a basic IRL fact: all of this information is already tracked by any commercial airline subject to ICAO regulations. For example, any changes to seat pitch (and how much a seat reclines) affects evacuation in the event of a fire (within 90 seconds usually). Every important spare part out of four million is tracked. Every member of the crew is already briefed in the conditions of the aircraft prior to departure. There isn't anything in here that isn't already available somewhere within the operations of any self-respecting airline in compliance with ICAO.

The disclosure can be a single document printed out of a laser printer and stuck in a ring binder next to the departure gate. Most airlines actually already have this at hand for crew and ground staff (although usually on an iPad these days, but the ring binders were around up to the mid-2000s before smartphones came along). Printing a page out and sticking it in a ring binder is no more complex than printing a new boarding pass.

(4)(b) "the customary cultural, religious, and other practices of the flag state" is actually a euphemism for the videos commonly shown in certain international flights that "two ounces of cocaine on you when you land means automatic death sentence with a bullet to your head".

Hey thanks for your replies, Not sure how to use the Simone quote, can you tell me what you had in mind?
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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New Kowloon Bay
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Postby New Kowloon Bay » Sun Dec 22, 2024 6:06 pm

National Coraland of Fishery wrote:Hey thanks for your replies, Not sure how to use the Simone quote, can you tell me what you had in mind?


Nothing really, just might be a possible criticism of any repeal of the resolution that comes up.
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Nikosias
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Postby Nikosias » Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:15 pm

Nikosias of The Leftist Assembly is willing to support this proposal.

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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Tue Dec 24, 2024 1:09 am

One more bump before last call.
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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New Kowloon Bay
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Postby New Kowloon Bay » Tue Dec 24, 2024 1:25 am

National Coraland of Fishery wrote:One more bump before last call.

As I see it right now, why does "the inclusion of loyalty flight programs...reveal a lack of substantive consumer protection issues"? I don't get what you're going at.

The penultimate sentence: "...resolutions with the improved draft..." What improved draft? Will you be planning a replacement?
Writer of GA#665

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GSA always will be missed

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Postby Simone Republic » Tue Dec 24, 2024 1:51 am

I stick to my position that everything that is disclosed here is pretty much inline with ICAO regulations IRL, so there's nothing to be gained with a repeal.
(It).

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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Tue Dec 24, 2024 8:43 am

New Kowloon Bay wrote:
National Coraland of Fishery wrote:One more bump before last call.

As I see it right now, why does "the inclusion of loyalty flight programs...reveal a lack of substantive consumer protection issues"? I don't get what you're going at.

The penultimate sentence: "...resolutions with the improved draft..." What improved draft? Will you be planning a replacement?

The point of the argument was to bring out that flights under loyalty programs, or employee transfers, or free government-operated flights may not bear the same consumer protection concerns as commercial ticketed flights. That assumption may well be mistaken; such flights still involve passengers who are due safety and comfort disclosures. I could make this clearer by arguing on whether the loyalty flights really do need a different regulatory approach from the normal commercial flights rather than dismissing their inclusion altogether.
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Tue Dec 24, 2024 8:46 am

Edited once more
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Postby Barfleur » Tue Dec 24, 2024 9:59 am

"While I agree that the target resolution entails a fair degree of micromanagement, I am not convinced by the arguments for repeal, or even that it should be repealed at all. A foreigner who has never been to a specific nation - or even just a particular region - would benefit from a primer, even an incomplete and reductive one, on the laws and mores of the place to which they are going. International travel means more than crossing legal boundaries; it means entering a world with which you may have no degree of familiarity, and is not necessarily analogous to anything you've ever studied or experienced. Carriers who provide such services should make that clear."


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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Tue Dec 24, 2024 12:04 pm

Barfleur wrote:snip

It is a good idea to inform travelers about cultures and laws, especially for travelers who do not know much about their destination. However, making the airlines do this summarizing may make complex cultural rules and legal systems sound too simplistic, potentially creating more confusion or misinformation. That task is better left to governments that can produce more thorough and complete resources for those seeking information. Airlines could point travelers to such materials rather than trying to address such a broad and sensitive subject on their own.
Last edited by National Coraland of Fishery on Tue Dec 24, 2024 12:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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Bisofeyr
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Postby Bisofeyr » Sun Dec 29, 2024 12:43 pm

I'm supportive of repeal but the language and format here is a bit of a mess. I have a written repeal on the topic with some additional arguments that you may use if I am credited properly.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=556605&p=42018703#p42018703

I would make your current as-written proposal much more concise. Feel free to telegram me if you'd like my assistance in cutting down the language appropriately.
If you are interested in using any drafts/writing of mine, please telegram me and I will give permission on a case-by-case basis. Good luck with your writing endeavors!

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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Wed Jan 01, 2025 4:58 am

Bump and thanks bio
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Wed Jan 01, 2025 8:27 am

Bump for Haymarkets edit.
The Island Paradise and Aquarium Zoo of Fishery
"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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National Coraland of Fishery
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Postby National Coraland of Fishery » Sat Jan 04, 2025 4:28 am

Bump before last call.
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"When the sun comes up...I couldn't tell where heaven stopped and the Earth began."
Current Parliament Member and Citizen of The Region That Has No Big Banks, Former Lt Gov of Covenant Shores, Former Founder and Sec of Law of The Global Union Consr, Former Vice President of Gravy

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The Overmind
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Postby The Overmind » Sat Jan 04, 2025 10:43 am

Support in principle without replacement, but not a fan of subordinate clauses in repeals.
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