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TikTok is one step closer to getting banned

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Attes in Majestia
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TikTok is one step closer to getting banned

Postby Attes in Majestia » Sat Dec 07, 2024 5:15 am

New York Times wrote:
TikTok is one step closer to disappearing in the United States after a panel of federal judges on Friday unanimously upheld a new law that could lead to the banning of the popular Chinese-owned video app by mid-January.

The three judges, in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, denied TikTok’s petition to overturn the law. The decision could be a death blow for the app in one of its biggest markets. More than 170 million Americans use TikTok to entertain and inform themselves, turning it into a cultural phenomenon. The looming loss of the app in the United States had spurred concern from free speech advocates and from the creators whose income depends on TikTok.

The decision also raises new questions for President-elect Donald J. Trump, who has repeatedly signaled his support for the app, but who doesn’t have a clear path for rescuing it under the new law, which is scheduled to go into effect the day before his inauguration.



The law, signed in April, requires TikTok’s Chinese owner, ByteDance, to sell the app to a non-Chinese company by Jan. 19 or face a ban in the United States. TikTok, which has raised national security concerns among politicians since 2020 because of its ties to China, has said a sale is impossible, in part because it would be blocked by the Chinese government. The company argued that the law unfairly singled out TikTok and that a ban would infringe on the First Amendment rights of American users.


Representative Mike Gallagher speaking to a group of people, some of whom are holding microphones and cellphones, on the steps of the Capitol.
Representative Mike Gallagher co-sponsored the law that will now force TikTok to cut ties with its Chinese parent company or risk being banned in U.S. app stores.Credit...Kent Nishimura for The New York Times
The judges disagreed with TikTok’s argument. They said the law was “carefully crafted to deal with only control by a foreign adversary,” and didn’t run afoul of the First Amendment. “The government acted solely to protect that freedom from a foreign adversary nation and to limit that adversary’s ability to gather data on people in the United States,” the judges wrote on Friday.

American lawmakers and intelligence officials have said that TikTok poses a national security threat under ByteDance. They say that the Chinese government’s oversight of private companies would allow it to use the app to retrieve sensitive information about Americans or to spread propaganda, though they have not publicly shared evidence that this has occurred. They have also noted that apps like Facebook and YouTube are banned in China and that the country does not allow TikTok there.

TikTok said that it would appeal the decision to the Supreme Court, which it expected to rule differently.



“The Supreme Court has an established historical record of protecting Americans’ right to free speech, and we expect they will do just that on this important constitutional issue,” Michael Hughes, a spokesman for TikTok, said in a statement. He called the ban “outright censorship of the American people.”

Attorney General Merrick Garland called the ruling “an important step in blocking the Chinese government from weaponizing TikTok.”


Exactly what happens next for the app is unclear, as there is no guarantee that the Supreme Court will take up the case.

Anupam Chander, a professor of law and technology at Georgetown University, is among the experts who expect the Supreme Court will take up the case and extend TikTok’s future in the United States.



“The Supreme Court, not wanting to see this app go dark on Jan. 19, will freeze the law, and then this gets handed over to the Trump administration and a Trump Department of Justice to figure out what they want to do,” he said.

If the company doesn’t sell, its short-term hope for continuing in the United States will be a court-ordered injunction that would pause the law from taking effect.

Paul Gallant, a policy analyst for the financial services firm TD Cowen, said in a recent note that he expected the Supreme Court to take up the appeal and rule by June.



TikTok said that it would appeal the decision to the Supreme Court, which it expected to rule differently.Credit...Eric Lee/The New York Times


Chief Judge Sri Srinivasan on Friday acknowledged the popularity of the app and noted that without a sale, many Americans could “lose access to an outlet for expression, a source of community and even a means of income.”

But, he added: “Congress judged it necessary to assume that risk given the grave national-security threats it perceived. And because the record reflects that Congress’s decision was considered, consistent with longstanding regulatory practice, and devoid of an institutional aim to suppress particular messages or ideas, we are not in a position to set it aside.”

It is not clear how Mr. Trump could save the app, based on the law’s timeline and language. A spokesperson for his team said in November that “he will deliver” on a plan to rescue the app, but provided few details about how he would do so.

It would take an act of Congress to repeal the law. Some experts have speculated that Mr. Trump could ask his new attorney general to refrain from enforcing it. But that would put technology companies like Apple and Google in a tricky spot. The law penalizes companies for distributing or updating TikTok on their app stores, so tech giants would have to trust in the Trump administration’s potentially mercurial promises of nonenforcement and prepare for that to change under a different president.



The law also gives the president the authority to decide whether a sale or a similar transaction successfully removes TikTok from “foreign adversary” control. Some experts speculated that ByteDance could make some structural changes to appease those requirements. If Mr. Trump blessed them, he could allow the app to continue operating in the United States.

And despite Mr. Trump’s promises, his commitment to TikTok’s future is uncertain given his hawkish stance on China. In 2020, he sought to block TikTok in the United States and force its sale to a group of American companies, citing similar national security concerns to those raised this year by Congress.

Congress passed the law after being swayed by several closed-door intelligence briefings that outlined the threats posed by TikTok’s ownership. There is a chance that Mr. Trump changes his mind about the app if he is briefed on that same information once in office, said Sarah Kreps, a professor at the Tech Policy Institute at Cornell University.

“It’s clear that the legislators thought there was enough evidence supporting a danger, and there was a willingness to set free speech concerns aside in favor of national security,” she said.



Overall, she said that it remained to be seen which version of Mr. Trump would take up the TikTok question.

“Is it going to be Trump, the deal maker, or Trump, the China hawk?” she said. “This is so complicated.”

Free speech advocates quickly condemned the decision and predicted that the Supreme Court would rule differently. The American Civil Liberties Union called it “a major blow to freedom of expression online” with dangerous implications for other platforms under foreign ownership. Jameel Jaffer, executive director at the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University, wrote in a post on Bluesky that the ruling was “deeply misguided” and “gives the government sweeping power to restrict Americans’ access to information, ideas, and media from abroad.”

But Mr. Gallant, the TD analyst, said in a note on Friday that the unanimous ruling from the three judges suggested that the Supreme Court would also uphold the decision. He noted that the D.C. court judges were made up of two conservatives and one liberal, similar to the Supreme Court’s makeup.



While TikTok and ByteDance have said that a sale is not possible, there is a chance that the ruling will create new movement in that arena. Steven Mnuchin, a former Treasury secretary during Mr. Trump’s first term, said in March that he was “trying to put together a group to buy TikTok, because they should be owned by U.S. businesses.” In May, the billionaire Frank McCourt also expressed interest, which he reiterated on Friday. Other rumored suitors have included Bobby Kotick, the former chief executive of the video game company Activision Blizzard. In 2020, possible buyers included Microsoft and the cloud computing company Oracle.

But a potential sale is up against major hurdles — financially, technically and politically. TikTok could cost more than $200 billion, and many potential buyers would most likely run into antitrust scrutiny. The Chinese government also issued export restrictions in August 2020 that would probably give Beijing the power to block a sale.

Mr. Srinivasan, the chief judge, expressed skepticism on Friday about the argument that China would block a sale. “Congress of course need not legislate around another country’s preferences to exercise its own powers constitutionally — much less the preferences of a designated foreign adversary,” he wrote.

Disagree with the ban, I know TikTok is owned by a chinese proxy company but it'll just cause too much damage to the people using it, if TikTok is banned what's going to be a influencer's source of income?, nothing. They are millions of businesses and influencers who rely on TikTok.

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Postby Slembana » Sat Dec 07, 2024 5:57 am

This is really bad. It’s also hypocritical because sites like Facebook collect data for the US government.
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Attes in Majestia
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Postby Attes in Majestia » Sat Dec 07, 2024 6:05 am

Slembana wrote:This is really bad. It’s also hypocritical because sites like Facebook collect data for the US government.

There's a double standard for TikTok.

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Terruana
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Postby Terruana » Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:17 pm

Eh.
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Postby Russian Brotherhood » Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:20 pm

Slembana wrote:This is really bad. It’s also hypocritical because sites like Facebook collect data for the US government.

OMG, he supports data stealing from China!!! HE IS A COMMUNIST, FAR RIGHT TRUMPISTS UNITE AND JUMP THIS MAN.

Although I would rather not have my data stolen it would be from my fellow Americans instead of a Chinese company that supports child labor.
Last edited by Russian Brotherhood on Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Taosun » Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:24 pm

We must stop bullying China, and having double standards for Chinese companies whilst letting US companies run wild. However, TikTok has had a horrible social impact on this generation, and maybe banning it, or heavily regulating its content, would help whip this next generation back into shape.
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Postby The South Afrikan Union » Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:26 pm

Shame, where will I get my dragon ball edits and pretentious political takes from now?

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Saiwana
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Postby Saiwana » Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:27 pm

Its a great thing to see. This app shouldn't be missed. All the propaganda commercials singing its praises didn't work.
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Postby Ci Arovannea » Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:31 pm

Mmmmm, I suspect there's more to this ban than "reducing Chinese influence".
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Postby Major-Tom » Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:38 pm

I don't know how I feel about this.

Personally, I do feel like TikTok is disastrous for developing brains, and it certainly is harmful to our social fabric, dissemination of ideas, and broader society.

On the other hand, that's part of living in a country with freedom of expression. I do see this as a potential 1st Amendment issue. Plus, it is patently hypocritical to ban it under the pretense of "Chinese interference" when companies like Facebook and Twitter are just as toxic domestically.
Last edited by Major-Tom on Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Attes in Majestia
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Postby Attes in Majestia » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:03 pm

Saiwana wrote:Its a great thing to see. This app shouldn't be missed. All the propaganda commercials singing its praises didn't work.

But what about the influencers who depend on TikTok has a livelihood.

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Saiwana
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Postby Saiwana » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:05 pm

Attes in Majestia wrote:But what about the influencers who depend on TikTok has a livelihood.


It is time for them to find a real job or switch to more reliable work. No platform is obligated to pay content creators enough to live off of. Its a side hobby at best that might be profitable enough with enough views/subscribers but not any sure thing.
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Postby Kreigsreich of Iron » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:07 pm

Taosun wrote:We must stop bullying China, and having double standards for Chinese companies whilst letting US companies run wild. However, TikTok has had a horrible social impact on this generation, and maybe banning it, or heavily regulating its content, would help whip this next generation back into shape.

When China stops trying to bully us.

And, hurrah! Higher average IQ for the youth, including myself.


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Postby Sardinia-Sicily » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:10 pm

Saiwana wrote:
Attes in Majestia wrote:But what about the influencers who depend on TikTok has a livelihood.


It is time for them to find a real job or switch to more reliable work. No platform is obligated to pay content creators enough to live off of. Its a side hobby at best that might be profitable enough with enough views/subscribers but not any sure thing.


Exactly. In no world should you be able to live off of making stupid dance videos in your house. Go find a real job in the real world and get off your stupid screens.
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Attes in Majestia
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Postby Attes in Majestia » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:13 pm

Sardinia-Sicily wrote:
Saiwana wrote:
It is time for them to find a real job or switch to more reliable work. No platform is obligated to pay content creators enough to live off of. Its a side hobby at best that might be profitable enough with enough views/subscribers but not any sure thing.


Exactly. In no world should you be able to live off of making stupid dance videos in your house. Go find a real job in the real world and get off your stupid screens.

You do realize that TikTok influencers don't just dance, right?.

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Postby Sardinia-Sicily » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:18 pm

Attes in Majestia wrote:
Sardinia-Sicily wrote:
Exactly. In no world should you be able to live off of making stupid dance videos in your house. Go find a real job in the real world and get off your stupid screens.

You do realize that TikTok influencers don't just dance, right?.

I didn't say they only dance but you get my point. Think about all the normal hard working americans struggling to get by and then you have a bunch of teenagers and 20 year olds making a boat load of money to practically do nothing.
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Postby Necroghastia » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:26 pm

Sardinia-Sicily wrote:
Saiwana wrote:
It is time for them to find a real job or switch to more reliable work. No platform is obligated to pay content creators enough to live off of. Its a side hobby at best that might be profitable enough with enough views/subscribers but not any sure thing.


Exactly. In no world should you be able to live off of making stupid dance videos in your house. Go find a real job in the real world and get off your stupid screens.

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Postby Slembana » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:27 pm

Russian Brotherhood wrote:
Slembana wrote:This is really bad. It’s also hypocritical because sites like Facebook collect data for the US government.

OMG, he supports data stealing from China!!! HE IS A COMMUNIST, FAR RIGHT TRUMPISTS UNITE AND JUMP THIS MAN.

Although I would rather not have my data stolen it would be from my fellow Americans instead of a Chinese company that supports child labor.

US companies are hardly better. Many of them use literal slave Labour, and also child labour. Not that I support the People’s Republic of China though.
Last edited by Slembana on Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Attes in Majestia
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Postby Attes in Majestia » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:34 pm

Sardinia-Sicily wrote:
Attes in Majestia wrote:You do realize that TikTok influencers don't just dance, right?.

I didn't say they only dance but you get my point. Think about all the normal hard working americans struggling to get by and then you have a bunch of teenagers and 20 year olds making a boat load of money to practically do nothing.

No matter the type of job they do, being an influencer is still a job.

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Saiwana
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Postby Saiwana » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:40 pm

Attes in Majestia wrote:No matter the type of job they do, being an influencer is still a job.


If its only a job, they can get a different one if their TikTok work ever ends or become unfeasible at some point. That is how work is, jobs come and go and aren't for forever.
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Postby Southglory » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:46 pm

AND STAY OUT!!!
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Postby Imperial Cecilia » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:46 pm

At least the cringy TikTok dances will end, right?

Right?
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Postby Western Canadian Republic » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:51 pm

Imperial Cecilia wrote:At least the cringy TikTok dances will end, right?

Right?


They won't. They'll just become YouTube Shorts dances.
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Postby MajinTails and SonicTheGhost » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:52 pm

Western Canadian Republic wrote:They won't. They'll just become YouTube Shorts dances.

...Civilization is screwed, isn't it?

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Postby Untecna » Sat Dec 07, 2024 2:47 pm

MajinTails and SonicTheGhost wrote:
Western Canadian Republic wrote:They won't. They'll just become YouTube Shorts dances.

...Civilization is screwed, isn't it?

I'd be fairly sure that the death knell of humanity will not have anything to do with video sharing platforms.
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