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When we win, it's Democracy. When they win, it's Russia

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Distruzio
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Posts: 24599
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

When we win, it's Democracy. When they win, it's Russia

Postby Distruzio » Fri Dec 06, 2024 3:48 pm

https://apnews.com/article/romania-elec ... cf4054179b

By STEPHEN McGRATH
Updated 4:50 PM EST, December 6, 2024

BUCHAREST, Romania (AP) — A top Romanian court on Friday annulled the first round of the country’s presidential election, days after allegations emerged that Russia ran a coordinated online campaign to promote the far-right outsider who won the first round.

The Constitutional Court’s unprecedented decision — which is final — came after President Klaus Iohannis declassified intelligence on Wednesday that alleged Russia organized thousands of social media accounts to promote Calin Georgescu across platforms such as TikTok and Telegram.

The court, without naming Georgescu, said that one of the 13 candidates in the Nov. 24 first round had improperly received “preferential treatment” on social media, distorting the outcome of the vote.


What a convenient turn of events for NATO and the Global American Empire. Much like with Orban, Trump, Le Pen, Meloni, or any other political "outsider," we can, reliably, count on our anointed and credentialed betters to discover electoral malfeasance which, in every case, created the opportunity for the no-good-very-very-bad "Far Right" guy to win (or come close to winning) an election. Truly, it is intervention from heaven that the good guys always find the evidence they need. Our democracy(tm) is safe, in Romania. Just as it is safe in Ukraine. Just as it is being saved in Georgia. Just as it is safe any and everywhere that our anointed and credentialed betters turn their gaze.

I am, obviously, being... sarcastic.

I don't like democracy. Among other reasons (see my post history for more philosophical ponderings) I don't like it because it is only ever tolerated by the Elite of a given nation provided the participants thereof don't notice power. And, as is the case for Ukraine and, now, Georgia should the participants ever attempt to express or, *gasp*, exert power... well... good thing there are so many cheap plane tickets available for the excitable student aged totally-not-professional interlocutors who, themselves, find that they always did have an interest in visiting [insert nation here] with a bag full of accidentally flammable materials. Democracy is, and has always been, a tool for obfuscating power. Not an ideal. Not a principle. Not something "good" or "valuable" or even in the interest of any number of people.

You know this is true. You've just never put much thought into it.

Consider: assume you and 9 of your friends want to eat dinner. 4 vote for pizza. 4 vote for hamburgers. The last two will decide. Right? Democracy! Yay!!!

But who among the 10 has the power? Is it with the majority? Maybe those last two guys vote pizza!? Yay! Democracy!

In reality, the power lies with those last two dinner-voters. They are the ones who actually decide what is eaten.

That is democracy.

Not majority rule. Not muh principles. Not muh coveted values. No.

It doesn't matter if you're progressive, liberal, conservative, or even reactionary... democracy is always this way.

And, in the case of Romania today... well... democracy wins!

For those who were confused about just how President Yoon of South Korea could argue that martial law was necessary to protect Korean democracy... read about Romania's court decision today. If you want to protect "democracy" as a principle, or as a value, then the credentialed and anointed few have to act. President Yoon, just like the Romanian court today, attempted to decide what was for dinner.

He backed down.

The court didn't.

Democracy. Guaranteed to work 51% of the time, all the time.

But what say you, oh enlightened masses of NSG? Am I being too cynical? Am I tilting at windmills? I mean... Don Quixote was a good book, after all.
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Bogmarsh in the mud
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Founded: Nov 15, 2024
Ex-Nation

Postby Bogmarsh in the mud » Fri Dec 06, 2024 3:55 pm

There is only ONE correct way to do democracy, and you can read up on it in Honneth.
Sorry, not going to spell it out for you.

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Russian Brotherhood
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Founded: Apr 25, 2024
Democratic Socialists

Postby Russian Brotherhood » Fri Dec 06, 2024 3:55 pm

Who called?
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The Terren Dominion
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Terren Dominion » Fri Dec 06, 2024 3:58 pm

Russian Brotherhood wrote:Who called?

The NATION calls...


Sorry couldn't help myself
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Kubra
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:01 pm

Interesting thesis, 1rm bench?
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Untecna
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Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Untecna » Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:21 pm

I'd believe the court. It's been obvious for years that Russia has tried to interfere in elections and prop up the far-right for their own benefit.
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Nilokeras
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Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nilokeras » Fri Dec 06, 2024 7:14 pm

Distruzio wrote:*snip*
(see my post history for more philosophical ponderings)
*snip*


I'll just read the John Kennedy Toole book adaptation, it's faster.

Distruzio wrote:*snip*
good thing there are so many cheap plane tickets available for the excitable student aged totally-not-professional interlocutors who, themselves, find that they always did have an interest in visiting [insert nation here] with a bag full of accidentally flammable materials. Democracy is, and has always been, a tool for obfuscating power. Not an ideal. Not a principle. Not something "good" or "valuable" or even in the interest of any number of people.


'when win, it's just the reflection of truth. when they win, it's professional student protestors'
Last edited by Nilokeras on Fri Dec 06, 2024 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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New haven america
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Fri Dec 06, 2024 7:18 pm

Well yeah, cause Russia's leading a cyberwar against the West that Western nations don't know how to deal with, and open and free press allows for greater misinformation tactics than state controlled media that Russia has.

Quite frankly, if any leadership has ties to Russia (Trump, The Tories, Georgescu, etc...) need to be barred from office. They're agents of a foreign adversary waging open war against us.
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Liberal Malaysia
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Founded: Oct 08, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Liberal Malaysia » Fri Dec 06, 2024 11:02 pm

"When we win, it's democracy. When they win, it's populism."

By this logic, the results of the 2020 U.S. presidential election should've been overturned because Joe Biden received preferential treatment from legacy media and social media platforms, including the suppression of a certain laptop story, as the X Files have made clear. It reminds me of how the Biden administration and the "liberal" Democratic establishment have behaved toward Donald Trump while letting their own (Hunter Biden) off the hook entirely.

As much as I dislike the pro-Russian candidate, this is wrong and this will backfire horribly for the Romanian Left. This is a blatant assault on democracy.
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Slembana
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Founded: Jul 17, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Slembana » Sat Dec 07, 2024 5:55 am

New haven america wrote:Well yeah, cause Russia's leading a cyberwar against the West that Western nations don't know how to deal with, and open and free press allows for greater misinformation tactics than state controlled media that Russia has.

Quite frankly, if any leadership has ties to Russia (Trump, The Tories, Georgescu, etc...) need to be barred from office. They're agents of a foreign adversary waging open war against us.

I agree.
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Zhou-Han
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Posts: 3
Founded: Nov 06, 2024
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Zhou-Han » Sat Dec 07, 2024 5:59 am

"Sure, they broke election law, but that's not why they were disqualified!"

Read it here first, you're allowed to use shadowy, undisclosed funds to get elected but only if you support Russia. :clap:

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Floofybit
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Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Sat Dec 07, 2024 7:26 am

This is an unrealistic situation. There are other foods I'd rather eat with friends than pizza and hamburgers.
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Pale Dawn
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Pale Dawn » Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:29 am

You don't like democracy, fine, plenty to dislike when mob rule is inefficient and self destructive. But it seems to me you don't mind strong figures taking power be it by overt force or more subtle means as with this court decision. You dislike it when your side loses but an honest and straightforward coup may not always win but at least its upfront. Power games are nasty and full of shadows be it in a top down dictatorship or a farcical democracy. Decisions coming down to a select few happen in any situation of government, every king has his advisors and will depend on that advice so whether its the last two people choosing pizza or just one person advising the orderer it doesn't make a difference. There will always be power plays at the top and some societies will organize better under different window dressings of elections or assassinations. Its just your bad luck you are in the former i think.
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Trump Almighty
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Trump Almighty » Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:30 am

Bogmarsh in the mud wrote:There is only ONE correct way to do democracy, and you can read up on it in Honneth.
Sorry, not going to spell it out for you.


There is only ONE way to defend democracy and it is to send in the military to defend our voting machines to prevent lame duck presidents who fall down stairs and aren’t getting impeached and want to pardon their own sons, from “winning” elections. We should probably send in the Coast Guard as well if we truly want our democratic system to be the envy of the world
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Washington Resistance Army
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:30 am

Very few people have any actual ideological commitment to democracy nowadays, as evidenced by all the people who decry Trump as a threat to democracy eagerly endorsing democracy being thrown out when it produces a result they don't like. It's neither cynical nor incorrect to make note of that.
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Love Peace and Friendship
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Founded: Feb 13, 2024
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Love Peace and Friendship » Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:38 am

Did any election monitors say the vote was corrupted in some way, or was it just the disinformation campaign alone with resulted in the election getting annulled?
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Terruana
Minister
 
Posts: 2094
Founded: Nov 18, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Terruana » Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:19 pm

Democracy is the worst of all the political systems, apart from all the others...
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Manlinesslavia
Envoy
 
Posts: 238
Founded: Jan 06, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Manlinesslavia » Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:58 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Very few people have any actual ideological commitment to democracy nowadays, as evidenced by all the people who decry Trump as a threat to democracy eagerly endorsing democracy being thrown out when it produces a result they don't like. It's neither cynical nor incorrect to make note of that.

They should just go mask off and be like the DPRK, still hold elections with predetermined results. Better yet, just announce them beforehand with the approved candidates and parties winning and let everyone stay home like George Carlin intended.
They can't even be honest enough to ban the opposition parties and put their leaders in jail. They'll still let them run, then overturn the results when they win. The kayfabe is getting tiresome. Not a great look when it's in the interest of the ruling class to maintain public investment in the system and stop people from seeking solutions outside of it. But hey, since color revolutions are totally cool and normal, they don't see those solutions as a problem either, so long as the outcome is in their interest.
Hell, Russia's fake democracy with high political apathy works just as well to inure the people to the status quo. The west can't even manage that, instead it has to do this embarrassing Montreal screwjob whenever the wrong candidate wins. Even Yeltsin managed to do better in 1996. Sad.

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Kernen
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Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:21 pm

Kubra wrote:Interesting thesis, 1rm bench?

Unfathomably based.
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Western Canadian Republic
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Posts: 6
Founded: Nov 02, 2024
New York Times Democracy

Postby Western Canadian Republic » Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:24 pm

Kubra wrote:Interesting thesis, 1rm bench?


Interesting thesis, but can you build a 10-post fence line in one day?

(Also parliamentary and proportional systems with heads of state having little to no power > everything else. You might have a parliament that can't form a coalition to save its life, but at least you have fewer presidents trying to rig elections or being accused of rigging.)
Last edited by Western Canadian Republic on Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vikanias
Minister
 
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Vikanias » Sat Dec 07, 2024 2:41 pm

This sounds more like you bitching and whining about democracy rather than anything going on in Romania.
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Untecna
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Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Untecna » Sat Dec 07, 2024 2:43 pm

Vikanias wrote:This sounds more like you bitching and whining about democracy rather than anything going on in Romania.

That happens to be Distruzio's schtick.
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Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17941
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Sat Dec 07, 2024 3:47 pm

Western Canadian Republic wrote:
Kubra wrote:Interesting thesis, 1rm bench?


Interesting thesis, but can you build a 10-post fence line in one day?

(Also parliamentary and proportional systems with heads of state having little to no power > everything else. You might have a parliament that can't form a coalition to save its life, but at least you have fewer presidents trying to rig elections or being accused of rigging.)
Given how much I bench? Probably.

Jokes aside, we're all just here to poke fun at Distruzio's funny politics.
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Corporate Collective Salvation
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Founded: Mar 22, 2023
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Corporate Collective Salvation » Sat Dec 07, 2024 7:17 pm

Floofybit wrote:This is an unrealistic situation. There are other foods I'd rather eat with friends than pizza and hamburgers.

Stroganoff, or maybe borscht?
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Floofybit
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12959
Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:22 pm

Corporate Collective Salvation wrote:
Floofybit wrote:This is an unrealistic situation. There are other foods I'd rather eat with friends than pizza and hamburgers.

Stroganoff, or maybe borscht?

Never had the latter but I do like beets (if that's what it is). A flawed democracy would say otherwise.
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