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Yes, the U.S. left does need its own party

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Selizon
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Left-wing Utopia

Yes, the U.S. left does need its own party

Postby Selizon » Sun Nov 10, 2024 11:54 pm

Building an independent third party in the U.S. is regarded as impossible. If enough people on the left tried it, we would be sure to lose the next election (assuming there will be another fair election). Nonetheless we have no future without our own party, and no choice but to start where we are. Let's review 2024:

The fox guarding the henhouse

As we know, Joe Biden was anointed in an uncontested primary, because he was the incumbent and that's how things are done. For almost a month after his cognitive decline became obvious in a debate watched by tens of millions of people, the Dems told everyone not to believe their lying eyes. Comedian Jon Stewart commented:

Honestly, "get on board or shut the f*ck up" is not a particularly compelling pro-democracy bumper sticker. ... Can't we stress test this candidacy? Can't we open up the conversation? Do you understand the opportunity here, do you have any idea how thirsty Americans are for any hint of inspiration or leadership and a release from this choice of a megalomaniac and a suffocating gerontocracy? ... All we want is for someone to keep it 100!

In fact, the Democratic candidacy never had a stress test. When Biden finally dropped out, Kamala Harris was likewise anointed without a primary. As the VP, it was Kamala's turn, and that's how things are done. (Nancy Pelosi is now among those regretting in hindsight that there wasn't enough time for an open primary, and she's right.) The last time Kamala had passed a democratic test was 2016, when she won a California senate seat.

Democratic relief burst into joy: finally a younger, competent candidate who could surely beat Trump. He's deeply unlikeable, and his 2016 win was a fluke. Kamala had campaigned from the left in 2020, and now her campaign's message was "we're not going back" and "freedom." She bucked the establishment choice for VP in Josh Shapiro and picked progressive favorite Tim Walz, who appeared to be humiliating MAGA by calling them "weird." Bon Iver even evoked the U.S. Civil War at one of her rallies, singing "Battle Cry of Freedom!" And progressive hopes for Gaza were faintly raised when Kamala skipped Netanyahu's speech in Congress, declaring "I will not be silent." Kamala massively outraised Trump, and thousands of small donors flocked to enormous identity-based conference calls like "white men for Kamala." Importantly, she surged ahead of Trump in the polls.

So much for the summer. Kamala wound up running a campaign that was conservative in both the political and strategic sense of the word. Election post-mortems have identified her campaign as out of touch with voters' pain and anger. To her credit, she did swerve away from Biden's message that voters just didn't understand how great the economy was. (Remember when the economy "recovered" from the 2008 crash? "Banks got bailed out, we got sold out!") Still, after not talking to the media for weeks, on "The View" Kamala infamously was unable to say how her administration would differ from Biden's. She promised some policies that would have economically benefited the working class, but it was always "opportunity economy," never railing against billionaires. The main theme of her campaign remained joy and optimism, which seems not to have connected with many Americans experiencing darkness and crisis.

Kamala contradicted many progressive positions she'd taken in 2020, tacking hard to the right on immigration and abandoning her past support for medicare for all. She of course did nothing to diverge from Biden's policy on Gaza, but she did have campaign ads with opposite messages targeting Arab and Jewish voters. She at one point suggested that she just couldn't differ from Biden because she's the VP, and that's just not how things are done! She stumped repeatedly with Liz Cheney, and made a big deal of the fact that she prays daily and owns a glock. (The obvious pandering calls to mind Barack Obama's infamous comment about "clinging to guns and religion.")

Somewhere between the rightwards flip-flopping, patronizing voters, and associating with anti-Trump Republicans who everyone hates, Kamala became the establishment candidate. Damon Linker in the New York Times summarized why this was a fatal flaw:

Another longstanding Gallup poll tracks the level of public confidence in major U.S. institutions. It’s been falling since the debacle of the Iraq War and the financial crisis of 2008, and currently reveals that a mere 28 percent of Americans have such confidence. Perhaps bleakest of all is a Pew poll about trust in government, which sits at an astonishingly low 22 percent.

Some seventy million people and counting still voted for Kamala, for many reasons: some passionately supported her, others are college-educated Republicans who only wanted to stop Trump, still others on the left similarly chose the "lesser evil." Their votes count for just as much as the vaunted swing voter. But ultimately, Trump beat Harris comfortably, and for the first time will control all three branches of the federal government - with a popular mandate to ice the cake.

In the end, the Democrats didn't keep it 100. Americans saw the quality of our democracy when we were ignored and lied to about the Iraq war, we saw that billionaires are above the law during the 2008 financial crisis, we saw our leaders abandon victims of the the opioid crisis, we saw "Occupy Wall Street" come to nothing, we saw our loved ones die needlessly because they couldn't afford healthcare, we saw massive protests against racist police violence come to nothing, and now we can't afford to pay the rent or buy a home. Then we saw the Democratic candidate bear-hugging the Cheneys while Barack Obama patronized and scolded Black men, and for good measure we got a parade of A-list celebrities. We were told that democracy was at stake, but it seemed the fox was guarding the henhouse.

Trump obviously threatens what vestige of democracy still exists in the U.S. He heads a growing movement of psychotic resentment, lies and violence, and could potentially commit truly unprecedented atrocities. Nothing justifies supporting him. Nonetheless, blaming a clear majority of seventy-five million people for destroying democracy would be badly losing the plot.

What happened to the protests?

It's astonishing the degree to which "anti-establishment" has come to be synonymous with deranged MAGA hatred and conspiracy theories. Occupy Wall Street, Bernie's "political revolution," and uprisings against cop violence feel like they're from a different era. All of those insurgent movements lacked their own political party. Since Biden won the 2020 primary, Bernie and the Squad have in large part hitched their wagons to the establishment, sensibly adapting to respectable Washington politics in order to stop Trump. Now Trump runs every branch of the U.S. government.

France has a parliamentary system, and a decidedly different political culture from the U.S. Nonetheless, it was a shock to everyone when their left-wing party won the most votes in the last round of their elections. Author Richard Seymour writes:

Notably, the New Popular Front’s success in France was achieved with a programme that addresses people’s immediate needs through higher wages and price controls while attending to more collective, long-term desires. It defended migrants, for example, and opposed Islamophobia. It supported climate measures, a ceasefire in Gaza and recognition of Palestine. The programme will be hard to realise, and the Left will be resisted by those in power – but it cut through the hopeless synergy of hard-centre and far-right and showed that punitive nationalism does not enjoy anything like a monopoly on public desires.

Of course we have only two parties in the U.S., and a winner-take-all election system very unlike a parliamentary one. This fact is cited every election year by the Dems to patronize and scold the left, portraying leftists who won't back them as childish. They love to accuse us of "posturing," and say we're unaccountable to the consequences of our vote. They valorize being unprincipled, as if kowtowing to billionaires and lesser bigots is actually wise and mature. They had a very similar message when calls grew for Joe Biden to drop out: as Jon Stewart put it, "'get on board or shut the f*ck up' is not a particularly compelling pro-democracy bumper sticker." Don't believe your lying eyes, and if you don't vote for us, Trump will be worse.

So now here we are. The Democrats' message to swing voters was not unlike how it has always treated the left, and millions of people decided they either would abstain or go with Trump. A CNN piece on the election opened with this damning account:

Pick one word to describe Republicans and Donald Trump, the focus group moderator asked, and one word to describe Democrats and Kamala Harris.

“Crazy,” said the White woman in her 40s, who hadn’t gone to college. Then: “Preachy.”

... Asked to pick between the two words, the woman said she’d “probably go with ‘crazy,’” anguish clearly in her voice.

“Because ‘crazy’ doesn’t look down on me,” she said. “‘Preachy’ does.”

This is where "lesser evilism," "three-dimensional chess" and "harm reduction" have gotten us. It turns out that stuff is bullshit. Politics are simple: you fight for what you want. In a democracy, you vote for what you want. If you can't win now, you build whatever power you can for the next round, instead of immediately folding and giving it all up to your enemies.

With no organization through which to fight for our politics, our movements from Occupy to Black Lives Matter have languished and failed, and "the left" has become attached to the establishment. Many people who once supported Barack Obama ("change") and then Bernie Sanders ("revolution") are now listening to MAGA, the only remaining voice acknowledging this fundamental truth: the establishment is bullshit.

The point isn't that if the left would only form its own party, we would suddenly sweep to victory in every election. Of course nothing remotely like that will happen - putting aside the question of whether our current political freedoms will survive the next four years. The point is that we don't have any option other than to get started now.

If someone went back in time ten years and predicted the events of the past decade, no one would have taken them seriously. Yet here we are. The future may look bleak, but it's still unwritten.

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Floofybit
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Mon Nov 11, 2024 12:00 am

The left also needs it's own blog
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Technoscience Leftwing
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Postby Technoscience Leftwing » Mon Nov 11, 2024 1:51 am

When I, as a first-grader, watched the rallies in the USA on May 1 and November 7 on Soviet television, the announcers created the impression of the large number and influence of the Communist Party there, and that very soon Gus Hall would overtake everyone else in popularity, since only the Communist Party expresses the interests of workers and the poor. As it turned out, this was somewhat of an exaggeration. ;-) Which could not be verified, since trips to the USA and Europe were impossible for Soviet TV viewers. Now I am not so naive, and therefore I am not sure that a left-wing party can gain popularity there and overtake the Republicans and Democrats. But if they start creating such a party, I would advise it to pay more attention to social issues and pay less attention to secondary things. However, if it plays by the rules of the system, it will never come to power, or will come having degenerated into a bourgeois party like the British Laborites. And if they refuse to play by these rules, the police will treat them like they did to the Chicago workers on May 1, 1886. Are the American leftists ready to expose themselves to bullets? Probably not. They and their social base have something to lose. So I seriously doubt the feasibility of such a project. And what kind of program would you write for such a party?
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My Holy Cushion
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Ex-Nation

Postby My Holy Cushion » Mon Nov 11, 2024 6:04 am

blog it
2028 WOOF

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Bienenhalde
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Bienenhalde » Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:30 am

I think it would be good for the US to abandon the first past the post voting system and shift towards a multi-party system. Among other things, it will help for centrist politicians to act in a pragmatic and principled manner and not be beholden to deranged extremists.

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HISPIDA
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Postby HISPIDA » Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:32 am

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Glorious Freedonia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Glorious Freedonia » Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:34 am

Bienenhalde wrote:I think it would be good for the US to abandon the first past the post voting system and shift towards a multi-party system. Among other things, it will help for centrist politicians to act in a pragmatic and principled manner and not be beholden to deranged extremists.

This might help. It also might not. All politics involves coalitions. These coalitions often involve extreme groups. This happens in 2 party systems with factions too.

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Siluvia
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Right-wing Utopia

Postby Siluvia » Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:47 am

The problem is that the left is the establishment. Now, some of the most extreme and radical leftists like to think they aren’t, but this is a fallacy because leftism always gravitates to the most extreme and radical variant. “Communism, socialism, call it what you like, there’s very little difference in the two.” Regardless of whether a leftist party starts with a center-left, left-wing, or far-left platform, it always ends up as a far-left party because first, centrism, then social democracy, then democratic socialism, are each stepping stones which push the party leftward. And this is what has happened to the establishment Democratic Party over the decades, it’s become more and more extreme while remaining the elitist party of the establishment. It’s no wonder that people are waking up and turning to the right, because rightist ideologies don’t have that inherent tendency to become more and more extreme.
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Postby Adamede » Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:53 am

Siluvia wrote:The problem is that the left is the establishment. Now, some of the most extreme and radical leftists like to think they aren’t, but this is a fallacy because leftism always gravitates to the most extreme and radical variant. “Communism, socialism, call it what you like, there’s very little difference in the two.” Regardless of whether a leftist party starts with a center-left, left-wing, or far-left platform, it always ends up as a far-left party because first, centrism, then social democracy, then democratic socialism, are each stepping stones which push the party leftward. And this is what has happened to the establishment Democratic Party over the decades, it’s become more and more extreme while remaining the elitist party of the establishment. It’s no wonder that people are waking up and turning to the right, because rightist ideologies don’t have that inherent tendency to become more and more extreme.

In what world is a bunch of billionaires not the establishment? Just because they’re right wingers?

I Lena this comment fits with your anti-education stance.

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Siluvia
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Right-wing Utopia

Postby Siluvia » Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:04 am

Adamede wrote:In what world is a bunch of billionaires not the establishment? Just because they’re right wingers?

Yes, actually. Now, Marx would disagree with me because Marxism only views the world through the lens of class, but the truth is that billionaires, just like everyone else, can have different beliefs.

For example, George Soros is an establishment billionaire, because he supports the establishment party (Democrats) and their establishment policies. Elon Musk is an anti-establishment billionaire, because he supports the anti-establishment party (Republicans) and their anti-establishment policies.
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Brydenfel
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Ex-Nation

Postby Brydenfel » Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:04 am

If the US left gets it's own party, the republicans will win every single election, and unavoidably they will crawl back to the democrats. Y'all have a worldview so distorted by NSS that you believe a socialist government is a realistic thing in the US.
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:16 am

I saw plenty of leftist parties on the ballot.

Nobody wanted what they're selling.
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby United Bongo States of the New America » Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:18 am

Siluvia wrote:
Adamede wrote:In what world is a bunch of billionaires not the establishment? Just because they’re right wingers?

Yes, actually. Now, Marx would disagree with me because Marxism only views the world through the lens of class, but the truth is that billionaires, just like everyone else, can have different beliefs.

For example, George Soros is an establishment billionaire, because he supports the establishment party (Democrats) and their establishment policies. Elon Musk is an anti-establishment billionaire, because he supports the anti-establishment party (Republicans) and their anti-establishment policies.

What did Soros do to you?
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Postby Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:19 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:I saw plenty of leftist parties on the ballot.

Nobody wanted what they're selling.

FPP voting rules do not help.

It enforces a two party system by its very nature.
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Postby GMS Greater Miami Shores 1 » Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:37 am

Selizon wrote:Building an independent third party in the U.S. is regarded as impossible. If enough people on the left tried it, we would be sure to lose the next election (assuming there will be another fair election). Nonetheless we have no future without our own party, and no choice but to start where we are. Let's review 2024:

The fox guarding the henhouse

As we know, Joe Biden was anointed in an uncontested primary, because he was the incumbent and that's how things are done. For almost a month after his cognitive decline became obvious in a debate watched by tens of millions of people, the Dems told everyone not to believe their lying eyes. Comedian Jon Stewart commented:

Honestly, "get on board or shut the f*ck up" is not a particularly compelling pro-democracy bumper sticker. ... Can't we stress test this candidacy? Can't we open up the conversation? Do you understand the opportunity here, do you have any idea how thirsty Americans are for any hint of inspiration or leadership and a release from this choice of a megalomaniac and a suffocating gerontocracy? ... All we want is for someone to keep it 100!

In fact, the Democratic candidacy never had a stress test. When Biden finally dropped out, Kamala Harris was likewise anointed without a primary. As the VP, it was Kamala's turn, and that's how things are done. (Nancy Pelosi is now among those regretting in hindsight that there wasn't enough time for an open primary, and she's right.) The last time Kamala had passed a democratic test was 2016, when she won a California senate seat.

Democratic relief burst into joy: finally a younger, competent candidate who could surely beat Trump. He's deeply unlikeable, and his 2016 win was a fluke. Kamala had campaigned from the left in 2020, and now her campaign's message was "we're not going back" and "freedom." She bucked the establishment choice for VP in Josh Shapiro and picked progressive favorite Tim Walz, who appeared to be humiliating MAGA by calling them "weird." Bon Iver even evoked the U.S. Civil War at one of her rallies, singing "Battle Cry of Freedom!" And progressive hopes for Gaza were faintly raised when Kamala skipped Netanyahu's speech in Congress, declaring "I will not be silent." Kamala massively outraised Trump, and thousands of small donors flocked to enormous identity-based conference calls like "white men for Kamala." Importantly, she surged ahead of Trump in the polls.

So much for the summer. Kamala wound up running a campaign that was conservative in both the political and strategic sense of the word. Election post-mortems have identified her campaign as out of touch with voters' pain and anger. To her credit, she did swerve away from Biden's message that voters just didn't understand how great the economy was. (Remember when the economy "recovered" from the 2008 crash? "Banks got bailed out, we got sold out!") Still, after not talking to the media for weeks, on "The View" Kamala infamously was unable to say how her administration would differ from Biden's. She promised some policies that would have economically benefited the working class, but it was always "opportunity economy," never railing against billionaires. The main theme of her campaign remained joy and optimism, which seems not to have connected with many Americans experiencing darkness and crisis.

Kamala contradicted many progressive positions she'd taken in 2020, tacking hard to the right on immigration and abandoning her past support for medicare for all. She of course did nothing to diverge from Biden's policy on Gaza, but she did have campaign ads with opposite messages targeting Arab and Jewish voters. She at one point suggested that she just couldn't differ from Biden because she's the VP, and that's just not how things are done! She stumped repeatedly with Liz Cheney, and made a big deal of the fact that she prays daily and owns a glock. (The obvious pandering calls to mind Barack Obama's infamous comment about "clinging to guns and religion.")

Somewhere between the rightwards flip-flopping, patronizing voters, and associating with anti-Trump Republicans who everyone hates, Kamala became the establishment candidate. Damon Linker in the New York Times summarized why this was a fatal flaw:

Another longstanding Gallup poll tracks the level of public confidence in major U.S. institutions. It’s been falling since the debacle of the Iraq War and the financial crisis of 2008, and currently reveals that a mere 28 percent of Americans have such confidence. Perhaps bleakest of all is a Pew poll about trust in government, which sits at an astonishingly low 22 percent.

Some seventy million people and counting still voted for Kamala, for many reasons: some passionately supported her, others are college-educated Republicans who only wanted to stop Trump, still others on the left similarly chose the "lesser evil." Their votes count for just as much as the vaunted swing voter. But ultimately, Trump beat Harris comfortably, and for the first time will control all three branches of the federal government - with a popular mandate to ice the cake.

In the end, the Democrats didn't keep it 100. Americans saw the quality of our democracy when we were ignored and lied to about the Iraq war, we saw that billionaires are above the law during the 2008 financial crisis, we saw our leaders abandon victims of the the opioid crisis, we saw "Occupy Wall Street" come to nothing, we saw our loved ones die needlessly because they couldn't afford healthcare, we saw massive protests against racist police violence come to nothing, and now we can't afford to pay the rent or buy a home. Then we saw the Democratic candidate bear-hugging the Cheneys while Barack Obama patronized and scolded Black men, and for good measure we got a parade of A-list celebrities. We were told that democracy was at stake, but it seemed the fox was guarding the henhouse.

Trump obviously threatens what vestige of democracy still exists in the U.S. He heads a growing movement of psychotic resentment, lies and violence, and could potentially commit truly unprecedented atrocities. Nothing justifies supporting him. Nonetheless, blaming a clear majority of seventy-five million people for destroying democracy would be badly losing the plot.

What happened to the protests?

It's astonishing the degree to which "anti-establishment" has come to be synonymous with deranged MAGA hatred and conspiracy theories. Occupy Wall Street, Bernie's "political revolution," and uprisings against cop violence feel like they're from a different era. All of those insurgent movements lacked their own political party. Since Biden won the 2020 primary, Bernie and the Squad have in large part hitched their wagons to the establishment, sensibly adapting to respectable Washington politics in order to stop Trump. Now Trump runs every branch of the U.S. government.

France has a parliamentary system, and a decidedly different political culture from the U.S. Nonetheless, it was a shock to everyone when their left-wing party won the most votes in the last round of their elections. Author Richard Seymour writes:

Notably, the New Popular Front’s success in France was achieved with a programme that addresses people’s immediate needs through higher wages and price controls while attending to more collective, long-term desires. It defended migrants, for example, and opposed Islamophobia. It supported climate measures, a ceasefire in Gaza and recognition of Palestine. The programme will be hard to realise, and the Left will be resisted by those in power – but it cut through the hopeless synergy of hard-centre and far-right and showed that punitive nationalism does not enjoy anything like a monopoly on public desires.

Of course we have only two parties in the U.S., and a winner-take-all election system very unlike a parliamentary one. This fact is cited every election year by the Dems to patronize and scold the left, portraying leftists who won't back them as childish. They love to accuse us of "posturing," and say we're unaccountable to the consequences of our vote. They valorize being unprincipled, as if kowtowing to billionaires and lesser bigots is actually wise and mature. They had a very similar message when calls grew for Joe Biden to drop out: as Jon Stewart put it, "'get on board or shut the f*ck up' is not a particularly compelling pro-democracy bumper sticker." Don't believe your lying eyes, and if you don't vote for us, Trump will be worse.

So now here we are. The Democrats' message to swing voters was not unlike how it has always treated the left, and millions of people decided they either would abstain or go with Trump. A CNN piece on the election opened with this damning account:

Pick one word to describe Republicans and Donald Trump, the focus group moderator asked, and one word to describe Democrats and Kamala Harris.

“Crazy,” said the White woman in her 40s, who hadn’t gone to college. Then: “Preachy.”

... Asked to pick between the two words, the woman said she’d “probably go with ‘crazy,’” anguish clearly in her voice.

“Because ‘crazy’ doesn’t look down on me,” she said. “‘Preachy’ does.”

This is where "lesser evilism," "three-dimensional chess" and "harm reduction" have gotten us. It turns out that stuff is bullshit. Politics are simple: you fight for what you want. In a democracy, you vote for what you want. If you can't win now, you build whatever power you can for the next round, instead of immediately folding and giving it all up to your enemies.

With no organization through which to fight for our politics, our movements from Occupy to Black Lives Matter have languished and failed, and "the left" has become attached to the establishment. Many people who once supported Barack Obama ("change") and then Bernie Sanders ("revolution") are now listening to MAGA, the only remaining voice acknowledging this fundamental truth: the establishment is bullshit.

The point isn't that if the left would only form its own party, we would suddenly sweep to victory in every election. Of course nothing remotely like that will happen - putting aside the question of whether our current political freedoms will survive the next four years. The point is that we don't have any option other than to get started now.

If someone went back in time ten years and predicted the events of the past decade, no one would have taken them seriously. Yet here we are. The future may look bleak, but it's still unwritten.

Dude: create a Poll with good Poll options for your thread. If you do please number your Poll options like I do, like this 01: 02: 03: and so on 10: I am the only OP who numbers their Poll options on the Polls the way I do, I always encourage all my fellow OPs to do the same my way. It is good as a reference point on our posts to each other. It also helps me follow the Poll results, because of my bad eyesight.

Dude: If you guys created a Real Leftist Party for Real Leftists like Therm calls Them, it would still be able to form a coalition party with the leftist democrats, I know you guys don't like them, but is better than nothing.

But there is the Democratic Socialists of America, DSA, that call each other Compañero Comrades. Compañera Comrades is the female version of the word in Spanish. They are Pro Cuba's government.

I cant find the statement I once found on it, but they want workers to own the means of production. In a real communist socialist democracy, that has not been practiced all over the world.

Make no mistake: Donald Trump was elected president because of the Democratic Party establishment’s failure to present a credible alternative to the right wing. For decades they have bowed to billionaires, waged war, ripped millions of immigrants from their families, and shown a complete lack of conviction to deliver a better quality of life for All Americans.

They support Bernie Sanders and at least one or more members of the leftist democrat squad is a member or supporter of the DSA. It has tried to infiltrate the Democrat Party through a few candidates who have won elections to minor government offices.

DSA: Democratic Socialists of America.
https://www.dsausa.org/.

Therm is a Pro Fidel, Pro Cuban government, real leftist according to his terms and definition. I here by Thank Therm again for his service in the Military Army. Thank You Therm for your service in the Military Army. I know you served Proudly, with Pride and Honor. Honour. GMS Alberto.

I honor, honour him by quoting him on his saying.

"Kamala had campaigned from the left in 2020: Because Kamala Harris is a leftist, liberal, democrat, progressive, this is her record. This is the Real Kamala Harris. " Kamala wound up running a campaign that was conservative" Not really, she made promises of a tax cut for the middle class, but she supports higher taxes and spending programs that increase taxes for all Americans. She supports higher dividend taxes on business investments. I have posted video links on this on other posts on the American Politics thread to back up my post and statements: Kamala Harris is a conceded, professional liar, questions dodging, issues dodging, evasive, Flip Flopping liar, talking out of both sides of her mouth, back and forth, at practically the same time. I saw through her lies, we saw through her lies, and many independents saw through her lies. I say, she uses her constant annoying cackling as a self defense mechanism to try and hide her constant lying lies.
Last edited by GMS Greater Miami Shores 1 on Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
GMS: I am a Political Junkie and Political Expert on NS and discord.With my real world nations regional nations, with real world statistics as much as possible, with Pics of their real world leaders, I read, learn and follow. What have I GMS been doing on NS for over 13 Years since the old co UK forum days and NS 2. Posting my and our Pro Republican Facts with Personal respect to those who think differently. Hardly ever on and off NS and discord, a Person says to the other Person, I am wrong and you are right, my Bad. These are Facts. Republican Presidents Ronald Reagan original Make America Great Again President and President Trump are the Greatest American Presidents of the USA. According to me and my Friend Historian Carlos Lumpuy. of French Cuban American descent.With Pride and Honor.

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Floofybit
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Posts: 11927
Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:48 am

I stoutly disagree with numbering polls. It's completely unnecessary
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GMS Greater Miami Shores 1
Minister
 
Posts: 2511
Founded: Jan 15, 2024
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby GMS Greater Miami Shores 1 » Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:02 am

Floofybit wrote:I stoutly disagree with numbering polls. It's completely unnecessary

Dude I strongly agree with numbering Poll options for these good and logical reasons: Dude: create a Poll with good Poll options for your thread. If you do please number your Poll options like I do, like this 01: 02: 03: and so on 10: I am the only OP who numbers their Poll options on the Polls the way I do, I always encourage all my fellow OPs to do the same my way. It is good as a reference point on our posts to each other. It also helps me follow the Poll results, because of my bad eyesight.

Would you care to comment on my post comments related to the subject of this thread, I would love to hear your comments on it and all posters comments on it?

Same, similar and different thinking's.
Last edited by GMS Greater Miami Shores 1 on Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
GMS: I am a Political Junkie and Political Expert on NS and discord.With my real world nations regional nations, with real world statistics as much as possible, with Pics of their real world leaders, I read, learn and follow. What have I GMS been doing on NS for over 13 Years since the old co UK forum days and NS 2. Posting my and our Pro Republican Facts with Personal respect to those who think differently. Hardly ever on and off NS and discord, a Person says to the other Person, I am wrong and you are right, my Bad. These are Facts. Republican Presidents Ronald Reagan original Make America Great Again President and President Trump are the Greatest American Presidents of the USA. According to me and my Friend Historian Carlos Lumpuy. of French Cuban American descent.With Pride and Honor.

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Federal Salvation Front
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Posts: 70
Founded: Nov 06, 2024
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Federal Salvation Front » Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:06 am

Brydenfel wrote:If the US left gets it's own party, the republicans will win every single election, and unavoidably they will crawl back to the democrats. Y'all have a worldview so distorted by NSS that you believe a socialist government is a realistic thing in the US.

Maybe it's not realistic, but it could be pretty nice.
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GMS Greater Miami Shores 1
Minister
 
Posts: 2511
Founded: Jan 15, 2024
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby GMS Greater Miami Shores 1 » Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:08 am

Federal Salvation Front wrote:
Brydenfel wrote:If the US left gets it's own party, the republicans will win every single election, and unavoidably they will crawl back to the democrats. Y'all have a worldview so distorted by NSS that you believe a socialist government is a realistic thing in the US.

Maybe it's not realistic, but it could be pretty nice.

I cant move back to Cuba under the current circumstances, lol and I ain't lolling, :) :rofl:.
GMS: I am a Political Junkie and Political Expert on NS and discord.With my real world nations regional nations, with real world statistics as much as possible, with Pics of their real world leaders, I read, learn and follow. What have I GMS been doing on NS for over 13 Years since the old co UK forum days and NS 2. Posting my and our Pro Republican Facts with Personal respect to those who think differently. Hardly ever on and off NS and discord, a Person says to the other Person, I am wrong and you are right, my Bad. These are Facts. Republican Presidents Ronald Reagan original Make America Great Again President and President Trump are the Greatest American Presidents of the USA. According to me and my Friend Historian Carlos Lumpuy. of French Cuban American descent.With Pride and Honor.

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Corporate Collective Salvation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5038
Founded: Mar 22, 2023
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Corporate Collective Salvation » Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:15 am

Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:I saw plenty of leftist parties on the ballot.

Nobody wanted what they're selling.

FPP voting rules do not help.

It enforces a two party system by its very nature.

Simplest is best, and simplest standard is a binary one.
Despite ideologues confusing the issue, the US is not divided along very many lines.
Most fall within the simple duality of individual freedom versus freedom from individual responsibility.
“The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.”
- Joseph Campbell

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Floofybit
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11927
Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:23 am

Corporate Collective Salvation wrote:
Dimetrodon Empire wrote:FPP voting rules do not help.

It enforces a two party system by its very nature.

Simplest is best, and simplest standard is a binary one.
Despite ideologues confusing the issue, the US is not divided along very many lines.
Most fall within the simple duality of individual freedom versus freedom from individual responsibility.

Isn't a unary technically simpler?
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Anti: Capitalism, Liberalism, Abortion, Anarchy, Inequality, Crime, Drugs, Guns, Violence, Fruit-Haters
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Safety & Equality > Freedom
If I CTE hold a funeral because I'm dead :)
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The Gotham That Laughs
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Posts: 68
Founded: Aug 12, 2024
Anarchy

Postby The Gotham That Laughs » Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:28 am

Siluvia wrote:The problem is that the left is the establishment. Now, some of the most extreme and radical leftists like to think they aren’t, but this is a fallacy because leftism always gravitates to the most extreme and radical variant. “Communism, socialism, call it what you like, there’s very little difference in the two.” Regardless of whether a leftist party starts with a center-left, left-wing, or far-left platform, it always ends up as a far-left party because first, centrism, then social democracy, then democratic socialism, are each stepping stones which push the party leftward. And this is what has happened to the establishment Democratic Party over the decades, it’s become more and more extreme while remaining the elitist party of the establishment. It’s no wonder that people are waking up and turning to the right, because rightist ideologies don’t have that inherent tendency to become more and more extreme.

Please stop smoking crake, we're worried for you :(

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The Two Jerseys
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22036
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:28 am

Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:I saw plenty of leftist parties on the ballot.

Nobody wanted what they're selling.

FPP voting rules do not help.

It enforces a two party system by its very nature.

There are currently seven different parties represented in the House of Commons (excluding Northern Ireland since they don't even have the same parties as the rest of the UK), and they use FPTP as well.

It's just an excuse to cover the fact that the American people don't want leftism.
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Mardesurria
Diplomat
 
Posts: 703
Founded: May 11, 2024
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Mardesurria » Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:33 am

Yeah… I do agree with you as a social democrat (not Democrat, just democrat in general), although I don’t really have much else to say on the topic.
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Corporate Collective Salvation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5038
Founded: Mar 22, 2023
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Corporate Collective Salvation » Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:35 am

Floofybit wrote:
Corporate Collective Salvation wrote:Simplest is best, and simplest standard is a binary one.
Despite ideologues confusing the issue, the US is not divided along very many lines.
Most fall within the simple duality of individual freedom versus freedom from individual responsibility.

Isn't a unary technically simpler?

The universe dictates that no matter how much you flatten circumstance, it is still at least a two sided coin.
“The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.”
- Joseph Campbell

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