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California On Track to Keep Forced Prison Labor

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Winter Ends
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California On Track to Keep Forced Prison Labor

Postby Winter Ends » Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:17 pm

NYT: A California Ballot Measure to Ban Forced Prison Labor Is Failing

Voters in conservative states like Alabama and Tennessee had already ended involuntary servitude in their prisons in recent elections. So it came as something of a surprise on Wednesday that California voters were rejecting a similar proposal.

Proposition 6 was failing by nearly 10 percentage points after election night counting, despite facing little vocal opposition. The measure would amend the state constitution to prevent inmates from being forced into labor as punishment, and it was one idea from a state task force that had examined whether California should provide reparations to African American residents.

Some state lawmakers saw the measure’s poor performance as an indication of a rightward shift in California on criminal justice. In Tuesday’s election, voters in Los Angeles and Alameda counties were on their way to ousting their progressive district attorneys, while Californians statewide overwhelmingly approved a ballot initiative that stiffened penalties on retail theft and drug possession.


TLDR: Proposition 6 in California, dedicated to banning involuntary servitude in California's jails, was on the ballot without an opposition argument or organized campaign against it. Seriously-- as someone who read the ballot measure, there was no organized argument against it listed (as given by California's free book they send out with every ballot). It seems on track to not pass. "San Francisco" liberalism seems to have reached it's end for the time being-- and in it's place, another era of tough-on-crime policies.

Might make another thread about the general 'rightward' shift in California, but it's pretty clear that the supposed "bastion" of progressivism is basically on it's way out. Disappointing, but almost certainly inevitable. Trump has been using the term San Francisco liberal for decades to describe this states politics, and it seems basically on point. NS: how do we feel about this?
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Hutsuls
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Postby Hutsuls » Sat Nov 09, 2024 12:04 am

Well, California is run and dominated by democrats, the party who created racist organization KKK, the ones or rather they fashioned it “Southern Democrats” who seceded from union and created Confederate States. This is the party which has the most number of racists and they project that onto Donald Trump. What is so surprising about this slavery move? This is normal for those people. It was expected actually.

And ironic is that those people who they project their own racism on, the deep red states, abolished such things a long time back.

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Postby Slembana » Sat Nov 09, 2024 4:56 am

Hutsuls wrote:Well, California is run and dominated by democrats, the party who created racist organization KKK, the ones or rather they fashioned it “Southern Democrats” who seceded from union and created Confederate States. This is the party which has the most number of racists and they project that onto Donald Trump. What is so surprising about this slavery move? This is normal for those people. It was expected actually.

And ironic is that those people who they project their own racism on, the deep red states, abolished such things a long time back.

What a stupid thing to say. Literal neo-Nazis and the KKK support Trump and the Republicans. The parties switched.
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Haganham
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Postby Haganham » Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:44 am

Nevada also joined the movement this election. Maybe others, I've only trawled through result for the abortion amendments so far.

Slembana wrote:
Hutsuls wrote:Well, California is run and dominated by democrats, the party who created racist organization KKK, the ones or rather they fashioned it “Southern Democrats” who seceded from union and created Confederate States. This is the party which has the most number of racists and they project that onto Donald Trump. What is so surprising about this slavery move? This is normal for those people. It was expected actually.

And ironic is that those people who they project their own racism on, the deep red states, abolished such things a long time back.

What a stupid thing to say. Literal neo-Nazis and the KKK support Trump and the Republicans. The parties switched.

And yet some how WE are able to pass ballot measures abolishing slavery with a 20% margin.
Last edited by Haganham on Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Imagine reading a signature, but over the course of it the quality seems to deteriorate and it gets wose an wose, where the swenetence stwucture and gwammer rewerts to a pwoint of uttew non swence, an u jus dont wanna wead it anymwore (o´ω`o) awd twa wol owdewl iws jus awfwul (´・ω・`);. bwt tw sinawtur iwswnwt obwer nyet, it gwos own an own an own an own. uwu wanyaa stwop weadwing bwut uwu cwant stop wewding, uwu stwartd thwis awnd ur gwoing two fwinibsh it nowo mwattew wat! uwu hab mwoxie kwiddowo, bwut uwu wibl gwib ub sowon. i cwan wite wike dis fwor owors, swo dwont cwalengbe mii..

… wbats dis??? uwu awe stwill weedinb mwie sinatwr?? uwu habe awot ob detewemwinyanyatiom!! 。◕‿◕。! u habve comopweedid tha signwtr, good job!

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Southglory
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Postby Southglory » Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:51 am

Winter Ends wrote:NYT: A California Ballot Measure to Ban Forced Prison Labor Is Failing

Voters in conservative states like Alabama and Tennessee had already ended involuntary servitude in their prisons in recent elections. So it came as something of a surprise on Wednesday that California voters were rejecting a similar proposal.

Proposition 6 was failing by nearly 10 percentage points after election night counting, despite facing little vocal opposition. The measure would amend the state constitution to prevent inmates from being forced into labor as punishment, and it was one idea from a state task force that had examined whether California should provide reparations to African American residents.

Some state lawmakers saw the measure’s poor performance as an indication of a rightward shift in California on criminal justice. In Tuesday’s election, voters in Los Angeles and Alameda counties were on their way to ousting their progressive district attorneys, while Californians statewide overwhelmingly approved a ballot initiative that stiffened penalties on retail theft and drug possession.


TLDR: Proposition 6 in California, dedicated to banning involuntary servitude in California's jails, was on the ballot without an opposition argument or organized campaign against it. Seriously-- as someone who read the ballot measure, there was no organized argument against it listed (as given by California's free book they send out with every ballot). It seems on track to not pass. "San Francisco" liberalism seems to have reached it's end for the time being-- and in it's place, another era of tough-on-crime policies.

Might make another thread about the general 'rightward' shift in California, but it's pretty clear that the supposed "bastion" of progressivism is basically on it's way out. Disappointing, but almost certainly inevitable. Trump has been using the term San Francisco liberal for decades to describe this states politics, and it seems basically on point. NS: how do we feel about this?


It's up to the Californians to change that rate of failure.
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Batakhovia
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Postby Batakhovia » Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:53 am

Former convict here.

I don't care about this. Prisoners should work.
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Turenia
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Postby Turenia » Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:53 am

I see nothing wrong with forced labor.

The phrase "forced labor" evokes visions of prisoners with a ball and chain fixed to their ankle, smashing rocks to pieces with a pick axe. Instead, I can imagine that "forced labor" today actually entails things like making license plates, picking up trash along the highway and some other similar activities.

What does need to be done is prisons must be audited to ensure that prisoners are working fair hours in decent conditions.
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Batakhovia
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Postby Batakhovia » Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:57 am

Turenia wrote:I see nothing wrong with forced labor.

The phrase "forced labor" evokes visions of prisoners with a ball and chain fixed to their ankle, smashing rocks to pieces with a pick axe. Instead, I can imagine that "forced labor" today actually entails things like making license plates, picking up trash along the highway and some other similar activities.

What does need to be done is prisons must be audited to ensure that prisoners are working fair hours in decent conditions.


Yeah, this. They're mostly doing pick-packing, gardening, road sign manufacturing, baking and laundry work; theory is that it focuses on industries that won't care about prior criminal history, so they'll have work experience when they get out.

Work makes the time go faster, else you're just stuck rotting away in front of the TV. What's lacking, in my opinion, is actual education and efforts at making sure that they stay out once they're out.
The Commonwealth of Batakhovia is a highly militarised and socially-conservative multiethnic federal union consisting of six semi-autonomous republics. (MT/PMT, NS stats not canon, see policies here)

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★ NEWS: Arrogord-to-Glaznogorsk Railway Project completed, Five-Year Plan lauded as great success. | Major social housing expansion plans announced in Cheboluga Oblast. | Commonwealth government to temporarily house war refugees from the Republic of Einheitswelt in wake of civil conflict.

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Haganham
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Postby Haganham » Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:59 am

Batakhovia wrote:
Turenia wrote:I see nothing wrong with forced labor.

The phrase "forced labor" evokes visions of prisoners with a ball and chain fixed to their ankle, smashing rocks to pieces with a pick axe. Instead, I can imagine that "forced labor" today actually entails things like making license plates, picking up trash along the highway and some other similar activities.

What does need to be done is prisons must be audited to ensure that prisoners are working fair hours in decent conditions.


Yeah, this. They're mostly doing pick-packing, gardening, road sign manufacturing, baking and laundry work; theory is that it focuses on industries that won't care about prior criminal history, so they'll have work experience when they get out.

Work makes the time go faster, else you're just stuck rotting away in front of the TV. What's lacking, in my opinion, is actual education and efforts at making sure that they stay out once they're out.

You can have work programs that are voluntary.
Imagine reading a signature, but over the course of it the quality seems to deteriorate and it gets wose an wose, where the swenetence stwucture and gwammer rewerts to a pwoint of uttew non swence, an u jus dont wanna wead it anymwore (o´ω`o) awd twa wol owdewl iws jus awfwul (´・ω・`);. bwt tw sinawtur iwswnwt obwer nyet, it gwos own an own an own an own. uwu wanyaa stwop weadwing bwut uwu cwant stop wewding, uwu stwartd thwis awnd ur gwoing two fwinibsh it nowo mwattew wat! uwu hab mwoxie kwiddowo, bwut uwu wibl gwib ub sowon. i cwan wite wike dis fwor owors, swo dwont cwalengbe mii..

… wbats dis??? uwu awe stwill weedinb mwie sinatwr?? uwu habe awot ob detewemwinyanyatiom!! 。◕‿◕。! u habve comopweedid tha signwtr, good job!

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Batakhovia
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Postby Batakhovia » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:01 am

Haganham wrote:
Batakhovia wrote:
Yeah, this. They're mostly doing pick-packing, gardening, road sign manufacturing, baking and laundry work; theory is that it focuses on industries that won't care about prior criminal history, so they'll have work experience when they get out.

Work makes the time go faster, else you're just stuck rotting away in front of the TV. What's lacking, in my opinion, is actual education and efforts at making sure that they stay out once they're out.

You can have work programs that are voluntary.


You can also have work programs that are forced.
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★ NEWS: Arrogord-to-Glaznogorsk Railway Project completed, Five-Year Plan lauded as great success. | Major social housing expansion plans announced in Cheboluga Oblast. | Commonwealth government to temporarily house war refugees from the Republic of Einheitswelt in wake of civil conflict.

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Haganham
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Postby Haganham » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:03 am

Batakhovia wrote:
Haganham wrote:You can have work programs that are voluntary.


You can also have work programs that are forced.

Yes. Those are the ones that should be banned.
Slavery... is bad.
Imagine reading a signature, but over the course of it the quality seems to deteriorate and it gets wose an wose, where the swenetence stwucture and gwammer rewerts to a pwoint of uttew non swence, an u jus dont wanna wead it anymwore (o´ω`o) awd twa wol owdewl iws jus awfwul (´・ω・`);. bwt tw sinawtur iwswnwt obwer nyet, it gwos own an own an own an own. uwu wanyaa stwop weadwing bwut uwu cwant stop wewding, uwu stwartd thwis awnd ur gwoing two fwinibsh it nowo mwattew wat! uwu hab mwoxie kwiddowo, bwut uwu wibl gwib ub sowon. i cwan wite wike dis fwor owors, swo dwont cwalengbe mii..

… wbats dis??? uwu awe stwill weedinb mwie sinatwr?? uwu habe awot ob detewemwinyanyatiom!! 。◕‿◕。! u habve comopweedid tha signwtr, good job!

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:03 am

Pretty fucked up to vote to stay a slave state, California. Sort your shit out.


Batakhovia wrote:
Haganham wrote:You can have work programs that are voluntary.


You can also have work programs that are forced.

You can, but what's the point?
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Batakhovia
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Postby Batakhovia » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:07 am

Haganham wrote:
Batakhovia wrote:
You can also have work programs that are forced.

Yes. Those are the ones that should be banned.
Slavery... is bad.


So is crime.

It's not even slavery either. The work is like barely anything unless you're doing teamster work as part of the trustees. They can opt for 3-hour shifts instead of the full eight, and they get remunerated for their work minus the incurred expenses of keeping them there.

They should be forced because they do not get a choice in rehabilitation, there's no option to say "actually, I'd rather not go to prison because prison sucks". Don't want to work? Don't go to prison then.

They should be forced because most of them are so strung out on smuggled Buprenorphine that they will otherwise have zero motivation to actually do anything with themselves during their incarceration.

And they should work because, actually, the prison labour system is interdependent. Prison clothes need to be washed, mouths need to be fed. Somebody's got to do it, and if it means forcing somebody to do it, so be it.
Last edited by Batakhovia on Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Commonwealth of Batakhovia is a highly militarised and socially-conservative multiethnic federal union consisting of six semi-autonomous republics. (MT/PMT, NS stats not canon, see policies here)

National State TV and Radio Company of the Commonwealth of Batakhovia (Bateleradio)

★ NEWS: Arrogord-to-Glaznogorsk Railway Project completed, Five-Year Plan lauded as great success. | Major social housing expansion plans announced in Cheboluga Oblast. | Commonwealth government to temporarily house war refugees from the Republic of Einheitswelt in wake of civil conflict.

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Postby Stellar Colonies » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:26 am

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction".

It's a lie to say that slavery is abolished in the United States until the bolded is struck out.
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:59 am

Hutsuls wrote:Well, California is run and dominated by democrats, the party who created racist organization KKK, the ones or rather they fashioned it “Southern Democrats” who seceded from union and created Confederate States. This is the party which has the most number of racists and they project that onto Donald Trump. What is so surprising about this slavery move? This is normal for those people. It was expected actually.

And ironic is that those people who they project their own racism on, the deep red states, abolished such things a long time back.


The FSB really needs a better dossier on America's political parties, JFC this take is just objectively wrong on so many levels.
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Bienenhalde
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Postby Bienenhalde » Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:41 am

Stellar Colonies wrote:
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction".

It's a lie to say that slavery is abolished in the United States until the bolded is struck out.


Except the first clause does not just say "slavery", it says "neither slavery nor involuntary servitude", implying that not all involuntary servitude is necessarily slavery.

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Postby My Holy Cushion » Sat Nov 09, 2024 11:48 am

Slembana wrote:
Hutsuls wrote:Well, California is run and dominated by democrats, the party who created racist organization KKK, the ones or rather they fashioned it “Southern Democrats” who seceded from union and created Confederate States. This is the party which has the most number of racists and they project that onto Donald Trump. What is so surprising about this slavery move? This is normal for those people. It was expected actually.

And ironic is that those people who they project their own racism on, the deep red states, abolished such things a long time back.

What a stupid thing to say. Literal neo-Nazis and the KKK support Trump and the Republicans. The parties switched.



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Floofybit
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Postby Floofybit » Sat Nov 09, 2024 12:27 pm

What a terrible law but that's Cali for ia. I should probably do more research before saying Cali has terrible laws.
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Postby Saiwana » Sat Nov 09, 2024 12:32 pm

Well, is the alternative not to have them sit in a cell all day doing nothing? The conviction they get isn't as much of a punishment unless they're compelled to work, and in practice- it isn't as if they're made to do physical labor from sun up until sun down.
It is just to make those people useful again and recoup some of the costs of keeping them locked up.
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Postby Ineva » Sat Nov 09, 2024 12:54 pm

The average prisoner costs U.S. taxpayers $43,836 per year as of 2021. Picking up litter is really the least they can do to pay off their teacher's salary of a debt to society.
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Winter Ends
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Postby Winter Ends » Sat Nov 09, 2024 1:48 pm

Batakhovia wrote:Former convict here.

I don't care about this. Prisoners should work.

This is not a proposition about the idea of prisoners working, it's about forced labor-- something that does exist in CA prisons. So much so, infact, that nearly 30% of our states firefighters were incarcerated in 2019-2020. We paid the people who put their lives on the line for us a measly two bucks a day in some cases.
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:50 pm

Ineva wrote:The average prisoner costs U.S. taxpayers $43,836 per year as of 2021. Picking up litter is really the least they can do to pay off their teacher's salary of a debt to society.


Man, where is it that teachers are making those kinds of big bucks?
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Sat Nov 09, 2024 5:44 pm

Hutsuls wrote:Well, California is run and dominated by democrats, the party who created racist organization KKK, the ones or rather they fashioned it “Southern Democrats” who seceded from union and created Confederate States. This is the party which has the most number of racists and they project that onto Donald Trump. What is so surprising about this slavery move? This is normal for those people. It was expected actually.

And ironic is that those people who they project their own racism on, the deep red states, abolished such things a long time back.

Last I checked, the Democratic Party hasn't been the party of racists for about six decades or so.
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Postby Dimetrodon Empire » Sat Nov 09, 2024 5:50 pm

Shame on California.

Forced labor is vile, regardless of who you do it to.
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Nov 09, 2024 7:52 pm

Ineva wrote:The average prisoner costs U.S. taxpayers $43,836 per year as of 2021. Picking up litter is really the least they can do to pay off their teacher's salary of a debt to society.

Being imprisoned does not confer a debt on the prisoner.
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For the union makes us strong.

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