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The Amsterdam Pogrom

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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Tinhampton
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The Amsterdam Pogrom

Postby Tinhampton » Fri Nov 08, 2024 2:03 am

I use this word not to inspire fear or sensationalism, but because both Israel's President and the Netherlands' Prime Minister most prominent party leader have used it to describe an assault on a group of Maccabi Tel Aviv fans after their team suffered a 5-0 defeat away to Ajax in the UEFA Europa League last night. As the BBC said:
Israeli football fans have faced a series of attacks in the centre of Amsterdam, officials say, with riot police having to intervene several times to protect them.

Prime Minister Dick Schoof condemned "antisemitic attacks" and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said two "rescue planes" were being sent to Amsterdam after what Israel's military described as "severe and violent incidents against Israelis". Amsterdam's mayor and authorities said that despite a massive police presence, Israeli fans had been injured in several parts of the Dutch capital. Supporters of Israeli club Maccabi Tel Aviv had travelled to Amsterdam for a Europa League match against Ajax.

Schoof said he had followed developments with horror, adding that he had spoken to Netanyahu and emphasising that the "perpetrators will be tracked down and prosecuted".

Police said 57 people were detained. There had already been arrests and trouble in Dam Square ahead of the match involving Maccabi fans and pro-Palestinian protesters, and there were reports of supporters setting off fireworks and tearing down a Palestinian flag on a nearby street. But the unrest grew after the game. Police said it was unclear who had taken part in the riots, telling local media that those involved were wearing dark clothing.

Several videos circulated on social media, with one showing a man being kicked and beaten on the ground and another showing someone being run over. In some videos, people could be heard shouting pro-Palestinian slogans, although the footage has not been verified by the BBC.

Israeli President Isaac Herzog spoke of a "pogrom" against Maccabi fans and Israeli citizens. Dutch anti-Islam politician Geert Wilders who leads the biggest party in parliament also spoke of a pogrom, saying "authorities will be held accountable for their failure to protect the Israeli citizens".

Amsterdam Mayor Femke Halsema had earlier sought to prevent trouble by moving pro-Palestinian protesters away from the Johan Cruyff Arena. But Dutch reports said a large group had then tried to head to the stadium, only to be stopped by riot police.

Herzog said on X that he trusted the Dutch authorities would act immediately to "protect, locate and rescue all Israelis and Jews under attack". Israeli officials urged citizens to remain in their hotels and public broadcaster Kan quoted the foreign ministry as saying it had lost contact with three people.

The US special envoy on antisemitism, Deborah Lipstadt, said she was horrified by the attacks in Amsterdam, which were "terribly reminiscent of a classic pogrom" and that she was deeply disturbed by how long they had lasted. She pointed out that the violence had taken place two days before the anniversary of the Nazi pogrom against Jews in Germany in November 1938.

What is your reaction to this gruesome assault, and why? I genuinely do not think that comparisons to Kristallnacht are warranted at this time: unlike Nazi Germany, the Netherlands has a government that will always stand up for the rights of Jews. So far as I can tell, however, this is a very clear, very targetted attack by a group of non-state protestors on Israeli Jews simply for being Israeli Jews; any and all violent protestors should be brought to justice, with additional hate crime charges if necessary. I sometimes fear that we are seeing a return to the era of football hooliganism, but this goes beyond that given the current situation.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Futurist State of Flassau
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Postby Futurist State of Flassau » Fri Nov 08, 2024 2:19 am

Tinhampton wrote:I use this word not to inspire fear or sensationalism, but because both Israel's President and the Netherlands' Prime Minister have used it to describe an assault on a group of Maccabi Tel Aviv fans after their team suffered a 5-0 defeat away to Ajax in the UEFA Europa League last night. As the BBC said:
Israeli football fans have faced a series of attacks in the centre of Amsterdam, officials say, with riot police having to intervene several times to protect them.

Prime Minister Dick Schoof condemned "antisemitic attacks" and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said two "rescue planes" were being sent to Amsterdam after what Israel's military described as "severe and violent incidents against Israelis". Amsterdam's mayor and authorities said that despite a massive police presence, Israeli fans had been injured in several parts of the Dutch capital. Supporters of Israeli club Maccabi Tel Aviv had travelled to Amsterdam for a Europa League match against Ajax.

Schoof said he had followed developments with horror, adding that he had spoken to Netanyahu and emphasising that the "perpetrators will be tracked down and prosecuted".

Police said 57 people were detained. There had already been arrests and trouble in Dam Square ahead of the match involving Maccabi fans and pro-Palestinian protesters, and there were reports of supporters setting off fireworks and tearing down a Palestinian flag on a nearby street. But the unrest grew after the game. Police said it was unclear who had taken part in the riots, telling local media that those involved were wearing dark clothing.

Several videos circulated on social media, with one showing a man being kicked and beaten on the ground and another showing someone being run over. In some videos, people could be heard shouting pro-Palestinian slogans, although the footage has not been verified by the BBC.

Israeli President Isaac Herzog spoke of a "pogrom" against Maccabi fans and Israeli citizens. Dutch anti-Islam politician Geert Wilders who leads the biggest party in parliament also spoke of a pogrom, saying "authorities will be held accountable for their failure to protect the Israeli citizens".

Amsterdam Mayor Femke Halsema had earlier sought to prevent trouble by moving pro-Palestinian protesters away from the Johan Cruyff Arena. But Dutch reports said a large group had then tried to head to the stadium, only to be stopped by riot police.

Herzog said on X that he trusted the Dutch authorities would act immediately to "protect, locate and rescue all Israelis and Jews under attack". Israeli officials urged citizens to remain in their hotels and public broadcaster Kan quoted the foreign ministry as saying it had lost contact with three people.

The US special envoy on antisemitism, Deborah Lipstadt, said she was horrified by the attacks in Amsterdam, which were "terribly reminiscent of a classic pogrom" and that she was deeply disturbed by how long they had lasted. She pointed out that the violence had taken place two days before the anniversary of the Nazi pogrom against Jews in Germany in November 1938.

What is your reaction to this gruesome assault, and why? I genuinely do not think that comparisons to Kristallnacht are warranted at this time: unlike Nazi Germany, the Netherlands has a government that will always stand up for the rights of Jews. So far as I can tell, however, this is a very clear, very targetted attack by a group of non-state protestors on Israeli Jews simply for being Israeli Jews; any and all violent protestors should be brought to justice, with additional hate crime charges if necessary. I sometimes fear that we are seeing a return to the era of football hooliganism, but this goes beyond that given the current situation.

Literally just Composition Fallacy, just because the State of Israel is made of Jews and is also Genocidal, doesn't mean all jews is Genocidal, but some people believe they are.
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Nov 08, 2024 2:50 am

Tinhampton wrote:I use this word not to inspire fear or sensationalism, but because both Israel's President and the Netherlands' Prime Minister have used it to describe an assault on a group of Maccabi Tel Aviv fans after their team suffered a 5-0 defeat away to Ajax in the UEFA Europa League last night. As the BBC said:
Israeli football fans have faced a series of attacks in the centre of Amsterdam, officials say, with riot police having to intervene several times to protect them.

Prime Minister Dick Schoof condemned "antisemitic attacks" and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said two "rescue planes" were being sent to Amsterdam after what Israel's military described as "severe and violent incidents against Israelis". Amsterdam's mayor and authorities said that despite a massive police presence, Israeli fans had been injured in several parts of the Dutch capital. Supporters of Israeli club Maccabi Tel Aviv had travelled to Amsterdam for a Europa League match against Ajax.

Schoof said he had followed developments with horror, adding that he had spoken to Netanyahu and emphasising that the "perpetrators will be tracked down and prosecuted".

Police said 57 people were detained. There had already been arrests and trouble in Dam Square ahead of the match involving Maccabi fans and pro-Palestinian protesters, and there were reports of supporters setting off fireworks and tearing down a Palestinian flag on a nearby street. But the unrest grew after the game. Police said it was unclear who had taken part in the riots, telling local media that those involved were wearing dark clothing.

Several videos circulated on social media, with one showing a man being kicked and beaten on the ground and another showing someone being run over. In some videos, people could be heard shouting pro-Palestinian slogans, although the footage has not been verified by the BBC.

Israeli President Isaac Herzog spoke of a "pogrom" against Maccabi fans and Israeli citizens. Dutch anti-Islam politician Geert Wilders who leads the biggest party in parliament also spoke of a pogrom, saying "authorities will be held accountable for their failure to protect the Israeli citizens".

Amsterdam Mayor Femke Halsema had earlier sought to prevent trouble by moving pro-Palestinian protesters away from the Johan Cruyff Arena. But Dutch reports said a large group had then tried to head to the stadium, only to be stopped by riot police.

Herzog said on X that he trusted the Dutch authorities would act immediately to "protect, locate and rescue all Israelis and Jews under attack". Israeli officials urged citizens to remain in their hotels and public broadcaster Kan quoted the foreign ministry as saying it had lost contact with three people.

The US special envoy on antisemitism, Deborah Lipstadt, said she was horrified by the attacks in Amsterdam, which were "terribly reminiscent of a classic pogrom" and that she was deeply disturbed by how long they had lasted. She pointed out that the violence had taken place two days before the anniversary of the Nazi pogrom against Jews in Germany in November 1938.

What is your reaction to this gruesome assault, and why? I genuinely do not think that comparisons to Kristallnacht are warranted at this time: unlike Nazi Germany, the Netherlands has a government that will always stand up for the rights of Jews. So far as I can tell, however, this is a very clear, very targetted attack by a group of non-state protestors on Israeli Jews simply for being Israeli Jews; any and all violent protestors should be brought to justice, with additional hate crime charges if necessary. I sometimes fear that we are seeing a return to the era of football hooliganism, but this goes beyond that given the current situation.


Was this before or after they loudly booed the act of remembrance towards the victims of the Valencia floods, gloated about how all the schools in Gaza are shut because all the kids are dead, or chanted about “fuck Palestine, let the IDF win to fuck the Arabs” or were going around before the game tearing down Palestinian flags?

Or were we not meant to mention that bit?
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Postby Turenia » Fri Nov 08, 2024 2:57 am

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest, and of course, there will be people who defend those responsible for it.
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:00 am

Turenia wrote:It doesn't surprise me in the slightest, and of course, there will be people who defend those responsible for it.


It doesn’t surprise you that if you deliberately antagonise people they’re liable to fight back?
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Life empire
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Postby Life empire » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:01 am

Vassenor wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:I use this word not to inspire fear or sensationalism, but because both Israel's President and the Netherlands' Prime Minister have used it to describe an assault on a group of Maccabi Tel Aviv fans after their team suffered a 5-0 defeat away to Ajax in the UEFA Europa League last night. As the BBC said:
Israeli football fans have faced a series of attacks in the centre of Amsterdam, officials say, with riot police having to intervene several times to protect them.

Prime Minister Dick Schoof condemned "antisemitic attacks" and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said two "rescue planes" were being sent to Amsterdam after what Israel's military described as "severe and violent incidents against Israelis". Amsterdam's mayor and authorities said that despite a massive police presence, Israeli fans had been injured in several parts of the Dutch capital. Supporters of Israeli club Maccabi Tel Aviv had travelled to Amsterdam for a Europa League match against Ajax.

Schoof said he had followed developments with horror, adding that he had spoken to Netanyahu and emphasising that the "perpetrators will be tracked down and prosecuted".

Police said 57 people were detained. There had already been arrests and trouble in Dam Square ahead of the match involving Maccabi fans and pro-Palestinian protesters, and there were reports of supporters setting off fireworks and tearing down a Palestinian flag on a nearby street. But the unrest grew after the game. Police said it was unclear who had taken part in the riots, telling local media that those involved were wearing dark clothing.

Several videos circulated on social media, with one showing a man being kicked and beaten on the ground and another showing someone being run over. In some videos, people could be heard shouting pro-Palestinian slogans, although the footage has not been verified by the BBC.

Israeli President Isaac Herzog spoke of a "pogrom" against Maccabi fans and Israeli citizens. Dutch anti-Islam politician Geert Wilders who leads the biggest party in parliament also spoke of a pogrom, saying "authorities will be held accountable for their failure to protect the Israeli citizens".

Amsterdam Mayor Femke Halsema had earlier sought to prevent trouble by moving pro-Palestinian protesters away from the Johan Cruyff Arena. But Dutch reports said a large group had then tried to head to the stadium, only to be stopped by riot police.

Herzog said on X that he trusted the Dutch authorities would act immediately to "protect, locate and rescue all Israelis and Jews under attack". Israeli officials urged citizens to remain in their hotels and public broadcaster Kan quoted the foreign ministry as saying it had lost contact with three people.

The US special envoy on antisemitism, Deborah Lipstadt, said she was horrified by the attacks in Amsterdam, which were "terribly reminiscent of a classic pogrom" and that she was deeply disturbed by how long they had lasted. She pointed out that the violence had taken place two days before the anniversary of the Nazi pogrom against Jews in Germany in November 1938.

What is your reaction to this gruesome assault, and why? I genuinely do not think that comparisons to Kristallnacht are warranted at this time: unlike Nazi Germany, the Netherlands has a government that will always stand up for the rights of Jews. So far as I can tell, however, this is a very clear, very targetted attack by a group of non-state protestors on Israeli Jews simply for being Israeli Jews; any and all violent protestors should be brought to justice, with additional hate crime charges if necessary. I sometimes fear that we are seeing a return to the era of football hooliganism, but this goes beyond that given the current situation.


Was this before or after they loudly booed the act of remembrance towards the victims of the Valencia floods, gloated about how all the schools in Gaza are shut because all the kids are dead, or chanted about “fuck Palestine, let the IDF win to fuck the Arabs” or were going around before the game tearing down Palestinian flags?

Or were we not meant to mention that bit?


so what I'm hearing, is that you think attacking groups of civilians is ok because certain members of that group have opinions you disagree with and are vocal about it? that same sort of reasoning could easily be used to justify most if not all genocides so unless you're pro-genocide, what the hell is that reasoning?

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Postby Vassenor » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:17 am

Life empire wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Was this before or after they loudly booed the act of remembrance towards the victims of the Valencia floods, gloated about how all the schools in Gaza are shut because all the kids are dead, or chanted about “fuck Palestine, let the IDF win to fuck the Arabs” or were going around before the game tearing down Palestinian flags?

Or were we not meant to mention that bit?


so what I'm hearing, is that you think attacking groups of civilians is ok because certain members of that group have opinions you disagree with and are vocal about it? that same sort of reasoning could easily be used to justify most if not all genocides so unless you're pro-genocide, what the hell is that reasoning?


Show the class where I actually said that.
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Postby Xshor » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:17 am

imagine flying all the way across europe just to be loudly amd violently racist in public nonstop and then your team loses 5-0 and you get beat up in the street while your government has to bail you out. funniest shit ive ever seen. shouldnt have left the bomb shelters buddy
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Postby Estravia » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:28 am

Xshor wrote:imagine flying all the way across europe just to be loudly amd violently racist in public nonstop and then your team loses 5-0 and you get beat up in the street while your government has to bail you out. funniest shit ive ever seen. shouldnt have left the bomb shelters buddy

Someone reported you for this lol. Agreed, you don't get to claim to be the victim when YOU are the visitor and YOU are the one being racist, and then face consequences for your shit behaviour.
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Postby Rusozak » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:28 am

Futurist State of Flassau wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:I use this word not to inspire fear or sensationalism, but because both Israel's President and the Netherlands' Prime Minister have used it to describe an assault on a group of Maccabi Tel Aviv fans after their team suffered a 5-0 defeat away to Ajax in the UEFA Europa League last night. As the BBC said:
Israeli football fans have faced a series of attacks in the centre of Amsterdam, officials say, with riot police having to intervene several times to protect them.

Prime Minister Dick Schoof condemned "antisemitic attacks" and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said two "rescue planes" were being sent to Amsterdam after what Israel's military described as "severe and violent incidents against Israelis". Amsterdam's mayor and authorities said that despite a massive police presence, Israeli fans had been injured in several parts of the Dutch capital. Supporters of Israeli club Maccabi Tel Aviv had travelled to Amsterdam for a Europa League match against Ajax.

Schoof said he had followed developments with horror, adding that he had spoken to Netanyahu and emphasising that the "perpetrators will be tracked down and prosecuted".

Police said 57 people were detained. There had already been arrests and trouble in Dam Square ahead of the match involving Maccabi fans and pro-Palestinian protesters, and there were reports of supporters setting off fireworks and tearing down a Palestinian flag on a nearby street. But the unrest grew after the game. Police said it was unclear who had taken part in the riots, telling local media that those involved were wearing dark clothing.

Several videos circulated on social media, with one showing a man being kicked and beaten on the ground and another showing someone being run over. In some videos, people could be heard shouting pro-Palestinian slogans, although the footage has not been verified by the BBC.

Israeli President Isaac Herzog spoke of a "pogrom" against Maccabi fans and Israeli citizens. Dutch anti-Islam politician Geert Wilders who leads the biggest party in parliament also spoke of a pogrom, saying "authorities will be held accountable for their failure to protect the Israeli citizens".

Amsterdam Mayor Femke Halsema had earlier sought to prevent trouble by moving pro-Palestinian protesters away from the Johan Cruyff Arena. But Dutch reports said a large group had then tried to head to the stadium, only to be stopped by riot police.

Herzog said on X that he trusted the Dutch authorities would act immediately to "protect, locate and rescue all Israelis and Jews under attack". Israeli officials urged citizens to remain in their hotels and public broadcaster Kan quoted the foreign ministry as saying it had lost contact with three people.

The US special envoy on antisemitism, Deborah Lipstadt, said she was horrified by the attacks in Amsterdam, which were "terribly reminiscent of a classic pogrom" and that she was deeply disturbed by how long they had lasted. She pointed out that the violence had taken place two days before the anniversary of the Nazi pogrom against Jews in Germany in November 1938.

What is your reaction to this gruesome assault, and why? I genuinely do not think that comparisons to Kristallnacht are warranted at this time: unlike Nazi Germany, the Netherlands has a government that will always stand up for the rights of Jews. So far as I can tell, however, this is a very clear, very targetted attack by a group of non-state protestors on Israeli Jews simply for being Israeli Jews; any and all violent protestors should be brought to justice, with additional hate crime charges if necessary. I sometimes fear that we are seeing a return to the era of football hooliganism, but this goes beyond that given the current situation.

Literally just Composition Fallacy, just because the State of Israel is made of Jews and is also Genocidal, doesn't mean all jews is Genocidal, but some people believe they are.


And Likud actually fans the flames of this because they want Jewish people worldwide to feel an existential threat only they can protect them from.
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Postby Turenia » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:34 am

Estravia wrote:
Xshor wrote:imagine flying all the way across europe just to be loudly amd violently racist in public nonstop and then your team loses 5-0 and you get beat up in the street while your government has to bail you out. funniest shit ive ever seen. shouldnt have left the bomb shelters buddy

Someone reported you for this lol. Agreed, you don't get to claim to be the victim when YOU are the visitor and YOU are the one being racist, and then face consequences for your shit behaviour.

It's so strange; the phenomenon of people on the liberal side of the political spectrum supporting horrific violence being meted out due to mere allegations of "but they were being racist :( ".
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Postby Futurist State of Flassau » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:36 am

Turenia wrote:
Estravia wrote:Someone reported you for this lol. Agreed, you don't get to claim to be the victim when YOU are the visitor and YOU are the one being racist, and then face consequences for your shit behaviour.

It's so strange; the phenomenon of people on the liberal side of the political spectrum supporting horrific violence being meted out due to mere allegations of "but they were being racist :( ".

This can be reversed for the Conservative, Libertarian and Socialist sides as well.
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Life empire
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Postby Life empire » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:36 am

Vassenor wrote:
Life empire wrote:
so what I'm hearing, is that you think attacking groups of civilians is ok because certain members of that group have opinions you disagree with and are vocal about it? that same sort of reasoning could easily be used to justify most if not all genocides so unless you're pro-genocide, what the hell is that reasoning?


Show the class where I actually said that.


well if you don't believe that then this:

Vassenor wrote:Was this before or after they loudly booed the act of remembrance towards the victims of the Valencia floods, gloated about how all the schools in Gaza are shut because all the kids are dead, or chanted about “fuck Palestine, let the IDF win to fuck the Arabs” or were going around before the game tearing down Palestinian flags?

Or were we not meant to mention that bit?


would not be a valid argument by your own standards

Futurist State of Flassau wrote:
Turenia wrote:It's so strange; the phenomenon of people on the liberal side of the political spectrum supporting horrific violence being meted out due to mere allegations of "but they were being racist :( ".

This can be reversed for the Conservative, Libertarian and Socialist sides as well.


I'd like to see that actually, specifically the libertarian one
Last edited by Life empire on Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:38 am

Life empire wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Show the class where I actually said that.


well if you don't believe that then this:

Vassenor wrote:Was this before or after they loudly booed the act of remembrance towards the victims of the Valencia floods, gloated about how all the schools in Gaza are shut because all the kids are dead, or chanted about “fuck Palestine, let the IDF win to fuck the Arabs” or were going around before the game tearing down Palestinian flags?

Or were we not meant to mention that bit?


would not be a valid argument by your own standards

Futurist State of Flassau wrote:This can be reversed for the Conservative, Libertarian and Socialist sides as well.


I'd like to see that actually, specifically the libertarian one


So how does pointing out excised context mean I believe that?
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Postby Knights of LUSITANIA » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:39 am

Turenia wrote:It doesn't surprise me in the slightest, and of course, there will be people who defend those responsible for it.

Sorry bub, it isn't a pogrom or anti-semitism when hooligans do hooligan things just because it's Jews this time. Violence is a natural, even if unfortunate, part of bread n circus sports, and football fans beat eachother up all the time.The racism angle just doesn't stick when they spend the rest of the year getting into violent alcohol fueled fist-fights with their regional and national rivals all the same.

You wear the wrong color near the home team stadium, and you're risking a confrontation. If you are an away team fan and you posture/yap back, you elevate your chances of getting your nogging knocked about a bit every second you choose to prolongue the encounter. Do you think the israeli fans just lowered their heads and didn't escalate either? Have you ever been to a football match?

I'm not defending the situation or hooliganism in general at all, I'm describing to you what the unspoken common sense knowledge about these sports events and how a very select but vocal and boisterous few behave in them. But you already knew all that, and that isn't why you made this thread, is it?

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Postby The BlAAtschApen » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:40 am

Xshor wrote:imagine flying all the way across europe just to be loudly amd violently racist in public nonstop and then your team loses 5-0 and you get beat up in the street while your government has to bail you out. funniest shit ive ever seen. shouldnt have left the bomb shelters buddy


Victim blaming.




I hope the dutch authorities can get the aggressors responsible for the violence against a group that was just supporting their team.
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Turenia
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Postby Turenia » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:41 am

Vassenor wrote:
Life empire wrote:
well if you don't believe that then this:



would not be a valid argument by your own standards



I'd like to see that actually, specifically the libertarian one


So how does pointing out excised context mean I believe that?

Yes, of course it does. Everyone here is used to the style of your arguments, so it's not surprising.

People would have more respect for you if you were overt about it instead of hiding behind semantics because you're terrified of moderator action.
Last edited by Turenia on Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:42 am

The BlAAtschApen wrote:
Xshor wrote:imagine flying all the way across europe just to be loudly amd violently racist in public nonstop and then your team loses 5-0 and you get beat up in the street while your government has to bail you out. funniest shit ive ever seen. shouldnt have left the bomb shelters buddy


Victim blaming.




I hope the dutch authorities can get the aggressors responsible for the violence against a group that was just supporting their team.


I’m not sure gloating about the murder of kids is “supporting their team” in a football match.
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Postby Turenia » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:42 am

Knights of LUSITANIA wrote:and that isn't why you made this thread, is it?

Huh? I didn't make this thread.
Last edited by Turenia on Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Life empire » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:42 am

Vassenor wrote:
Life empire wrote:
well if you don't believe that then this:



would not be a valid argument by your own standards



I'd like to see that actually, specifically the libertarian one


So how does pointing out excised context mean I believe that?


ok, put simply, two options, either the context is irrelevant, the perpetrators are still pieces of shit and should still be charged, the context simply doesn't matter, or you believe those pro-genocide arguments, which one?

Vassenor wrote:
The BlAAtschApen wrote:
Victim blaming.




I hope the dutch authorities can get the aggressors responsible for the violence against a group that was just supporting their team.


I’m not sure gloating about the murder of kids is “supporting their team” in a football match.


well he never said that, he said another poster was victim blaming, which he was
Last edited by Life empire on Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Vassenor » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:43 am

Life empire wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So how does pointing out excised context mean I believe that?


ok, put simply, two options, either the context is irrelevant, the perpetrators are still pieces of shit and should still be charged, the context simply doesn't matter, or you believe those pro-genocide arguments, which one?


The pro-genocide argument that slaughtering kids is bad?
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Postby Life empire » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:46 am

Vassenor wrote:
Life empire wrote:
ok, put simply, two options, either the context is irrelevant, the perpetrators are still pieces of shit and should still be charged, the context simply doesn't matter, or you believe those pro-genocide arguments, which one?


The pro-genocide argument that slaughtering kids is bad?


no, that attacking civilians because some people vocally disagree with you is fine, you know what I mean, it was my first reply to you in this thread, stop being dishonest, don't dodge the question, just tell me, is the context irrelevant, or do you believe in pro-genocide arguments?

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Postby Estravia » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:49 am

Turenia wrote:
Estravia wrote:Someone reported you for this lol. Agreed, you don't get to claim to be the victim when YOU are the visitor and YOU are the one being racist, and then face consequences for your shit behaviour.

It's so strange; the phenomenon of people on the liberal side of the political spectrum supporting horrific violence being meted out due to mere allegations of "but they were being racist :( ".


If a bunch of people visited Israel for a soccer match, booed and jeered throughout a minute of silence for the holocaust, tore down Israeli flags, and screamed slurs at the Israelis their entire visit, people would absolutely beat them up, and rightfully so. It would be completely unacceptable. Just cause they are Israelis does not exempt them from the reverse applying to them.
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Postby Turenia » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:54 am

Estravia wrote:
Turenia wrote:It's so strange; the phenomenon of people on the liberal side of the political spectrum supporting horrific violence being meted out due to mere allegations of "but they were being racist :( ".


If a bunch of people visited Israel for a soccer match, booed and jeered throughout a minute of silence for the holocaust, tore down Israeli flags, and screamed slurs at the Israelis their entire visit, people would absolutely beat them up, and rightfully so. It would be completely unacceptable. Just cause they are Israelis does not exempt them from the reverse applying to them.

...by extension justifying pretty much every instance of football violence that has ever occurred. Yawn.
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Postby Durius » Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:26 am

The acts are ought to be condemned and the perpetrators brought to justice, as always should. Still, UEFA and the Netherlands are certainly putting themselves in a very irresponsible position by allowing Israeli teams to still compete in international competitions. They know very well that football instigates violence in many adepts, so it's senseless in this geopolitical conjecture to allow their teams to play. These could have been acts done against Russian teams if they were not rightfully banned too.

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