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[EDITED] ON 'DO NOT DEFEND' CLAUSES

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Test eleven one
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[EDITED] ON 'DO NOT DEFEND' CLAUSES

Postby Test eleven one » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:30 pm

Due to the recent events taking place within Roses Without Thorns, a frontier region that has recently fallen to the hands of The Brotherhood Of Malice, and the inaction of many defender regions due to a Do Not Defend clause, members of the World Assembly, especially those in smaller communities that differ from the feeders, restorers and sinkers who are responsible for the protection of regions,

Urging the WA to recognize when frontiers and regions branded with a DND clause has changed in security and government,

Shocked at the inaction of WA nations and WA defender organizations, due to the lack of real information provided by defenders, and the complete lack of confidence inspired in the region due to this Do Not Defend clause,

Implying Roses without Thorns is not the sole subject that has warranted this passage, but a huge catalyst that has lead to issues with these clauses to resurface,

Acknowledging that much information is shared by exclusively higher-ups from these defender organizations, and lower ranked nations are not even aware of some of the actions of these regions, which creates a form of disconnect between soldiers from WA defense organizations and officers, and creating a system where infantry and lower-ranked nations in raider and defender organizations do not know what they are fighting for, essentially creating apathy to the real causes and makes nations likely only join for vanity provided by the defender organizations, such as medals, rewards and promotions within their regions,

Disgusted by the presence of mildew and cobwebs found on the paperwork of untouched DND clauses since 2022,

With the example of:

Recognizing that while many actions took place within the government buildings and offices in Roses Without Thorns, the permittance of these actions were mainly procured by disgraced or banned nations, who have either been struck by lightning or are no longer a part of Roses Without Thorns, and that the lack of administration or security as well as inexperience from the very young nations comprising the moderation team, which have led to many scandals within the parliament, and is mainly a result of the refusal of defender organizations who issue these DND clauses to acknowledge the departure of disgraced nations or change within government, electing Lethinia, who is a major participant within the multiverse and has created several threads within the illusive "Forum 7" Dimension to either collect positive criticism or train nations for certain scenarios, and should possibly be subject to a commendation themselves,

Recognizing that these clauses can make it difficult to void, since many officers of major defender organizations are unwilling to communicate or accept any real change unless pressured to by either other large WA based militaries, or from their own population, which rarely happens due to the lack of transparency provided,

The World Assembly, Hereby

1. Advises Defender organizations to publicly list the reasoning behind 'Do Not Defend' clauses, which can be potentially omitted if leaked footage from inside regional offices are too graphic to show or go into detail, or any private or confidential information that the defender does not wish to disclose,

2. Pushes for Defender organizations to try to negotiate diplomatically, or even provide aid when unrest appears within offices,

3. Urges World Assembly nations to monitor 'Do Not Defend' clauses, and be more lenient towards regions,

4. Recognize that while their own beliefs may be a factor in these clauses, they will be more impartial when deciding on them,

5. Accepts if defender organizations need to raid a region temporarily to decontaminate corruption from within

6. Recognize that a Do Not Defend clause is should be issued only in emergencies, or when a region's government is incredibly unpleasant and very corrupt, such as...
  • Actively housing and providing shelter for fascist members,
  • Leaked footage of corruption within the government halls are incredibly disgusting, such as racially charged insults, and unpleasant imagery and are actively occuring.
  • They are responsible for the destruction of smaller regions, and are specifically targeting defender organizations back,
  • The list can be changed if it is deemed necessary

7. Implying that the conditions for revoking a Do Not Defend clause are not based on whether the region has improved from the above but...
  • are under new management or rule, and actively strengthening their laws and security,
  • has shown a significant degree of improvement and has purged uncouth and malevolent people from both its administration and residency, despite the original government still being in power
  • can be revoked if defender organizations deem it necessary

ok for the raiders joining, I AM NOT TRYING TO DEFEND OR LIBERATE ROSES WITHOUT THORNS
Last edited by Test eleven one on Sun Oct 13, 2024 6:38 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Greater Cetus
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Postby Greater Cetus » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:32 pm

Just be glad BBD ain't here...

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The Kaisers Syndicates
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Postby The Kaisers Syndicates » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:32 pm

Definitely for
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Test eleven one
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Postby Test eleven one » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:32 pm

Greater Cetus wrote:Just be glad BBD ain't here...

whats he gonna do
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Improper Classifications
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Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:34 pm

just let it go.
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Test eleven one
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Postby Test eleven one » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:34 pm

Improper Classifications wrote:just let it go.

WERE NOT TRYING TO LIBERATE RWT BRUH
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Trinitraria
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Postby Trinitraria » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:35 pm

For. Defeatism over vague reasons is getting a little absurd lately.

that being said, this seems unenforceable.
Last edited by Trinitraria on Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Merethin
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Postby Merethin » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:35 pm

You can't make defenders do stuff via WA proposals.

You've been raided. Your region won't be saved. Move on. Making endless WA proposals won't change anything except annoy everyone involved.
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The Galactic Authority of Progress
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Postby The Galactic Authority of Progress » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:35 pm

Could be written better, but good in intention.
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Postby Pathonia » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:37 pm

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, I don't believe your draft fits any of the labels provided by the Security Council.

Liberations ~ Prevents a region's governor from imposing a password (and striking down any existing ones?)
Injunctions ~ Preventing a region's transition from a stronghold to a frontier, or vice verse.
C&C ~ Commend/Condemn a nation or region for exemplary or horrific actions respectively.
Declarations ~ Statements of opinion.

I do not believe that an SC draft of any sort- such as yours -could really force a defender organisation to do much of anything, including explaining a Do Not Defend verdict.
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Postby Trinitraria » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:38 pm

Pathonia wrote:Unless I'm sorely mistaken, I don't believe your draft fits any of the labels provided by the Security Council.

Liberations ~ Prevents a region's governor from imposing a password (and striking down any existing ones?)
Injunctions ~ Preventing a region's transition from a stronghold to a frontier, or vice verse.
C&C ~ Commend/Condemn a nation or region for exemplary or horrific actions respectively.
Declarations ~ Statements of opinion.

I do not believe that an SC draft of any sort- such as yours -could really force a defender organisation to do much of anything, including explaining a Do Not Defend verdict.


It’s (kinda) titled as if it were a declaration- and could be revised to be one. Still, agreed.
Last edited by Trinitraria on Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Greater Cetus
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Postby Greater Cetus » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:40 pm

Against.

Frontiers are supposed to be raided. You can only be safe by signing a treaty with raiders, or turning into a governorship.

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Tungstan
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Postby Tungstan » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:40 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this would probably be illegal under R1(d).

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Pathonia
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Postby Pathonia » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:42 pm

Trinitraria wrote:
Pathonia wrote:Unless I'm sorely mistaken, I don't believe your draft fits any of the labels provided by the Security Council.

Liberations ~ Prevents a region's governor from imposing a password (and striking down any existing ones?)
Injunctions ~ Preventing a region's transition from a stronghold to a frontier, or vice verse.
C&C ~ Commend/Condemn a nation or region for exemplary or horrific actions respectively.
Declarations ~ Statements of opinion.

I do not believe that an SC draft of any sort- such as yours -could really force a defender organisation to do much of anything, including explaining a Do Not Defend verdict.


It’s (kinda) titled as if it were a declaration- and could be revised to be one. Still, agreed.

Most aspects of the draft, I think, fit under the label of being a declaration.

The section below, however, was the portion that seemed to be an issue to me. It's worded such that one could easily assume it's intention to legally obligate defender organisations to publicly list their reasons behind DND verdicts.
1. Requires Defender organizations to publicly list the reasoning behind 'Do Not Defend' clauses, which can be potentially omitted if leaked footage from inside regional offices is too graphic to show or go into detail,


Outside of that, it's probably a fine draft, though I'm still rereading it to check if I missed anything else that's critical within it.

EDIT:
It appears it's been changed to 'advises.'
Certainly strikes me as being a declaration, now that it's been changed.
-
Personally, I still feel that- with the pile now consisting of such a large force -any sort of activity related to the RWOT takeover is/was primarily written with the intention of somehow retaking the region, regardless of the feasibility of it.
I don't believe I support this draft.
[My reasoning to believe this is related to that event being with how much discussion the DND verdict sparked within the case of that region.]
Last edited by Pathonia on Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Merethin » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:44 pm

Trinitraria wrote:
Pathonia wrote:Unless I'm sorely mistaken, I don't believe your draft fits any of the labels provided by the Security Council.

Liberations ~ Prevents a region's governor from imposing a password (and striking down any existing ones?)
Injunctions ~ Preventing a region's transition from a stronghold to a frontier, or vice verse.
C&C ~ Commend/Condemn a nation or region for exemplary or horrific actions respectively.
Declarations ~ Statements of opinion.

I do not believe that an SC draft of any sort- such as yours -could really force a defender organisation to do much of anything, including explaining a Do Not Defend verdict.


It’s (kinda) titled as if it were a declaration- and could be revised to be one. Still, agreed.

A declaration still doesn't have the ability to do anything. If not, the recent declaration regarding embassy collectors would have nuked most of them.

On another note, I imagine you've been on the site long enough to witness other occupations - for me, Kelios and UEPU are the ones I can name off the top of my head. Surely you've seen how defenders rushed to their aid (in the SC at least), how libjuncts were submitted almost instantly, and the regions eventually were freed.

As a newish raider myself, I went tag raiding once, and was stopped by defenders half of the time - they cared enough to stop us from putting reversible graffiti on two-nation regions without a WA delegate.

If defenders are willing to defend pretty much anything that can be touched by raiders, it begs the question - if they don't bother to defend a region, there must be a very good reason. Accept it.
Last edited by Merethin on Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Test eleven one
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Postby Test eleven one » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:44 pm

Should I add more stuff
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Test eleven one
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Postby Test eleven one » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:45 pm

holy these raiders are raiding world assembly proposals
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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:45 pm

The above posts by Pathonia are correct in regards to legality. A Declaration can not require anyone to do anything, just advise it.
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Test eleven one
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Postby Test eleven one » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:46 pm

looking for a co-author who can submit it and also add periods since I forgot
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Suthanimark
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Postby Suthanimark » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:46 pm

Please, God, Allah, Sheva, the Jade Emperor, ancestors, and Papa Legba. Let this all end.
Nobody's coming to miraculously save RWoT. Nobody who has any GP clout wants to save RWoT.
RWoT made the big mistake of letting fascists in and by the time they decided that it was a bad idea, it was too late for them.
It's not your place, nor anyone else's, to be telling defenders which regions they have to defend. If defenders don't want to touch a region with a gods-damned ten foot pole, then that's their choice.
Just let it go.
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Trinitraria
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Postby Trinitraria » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:46 pm

Merethin wrote:
Trinitraria wrote:
It’s (kinda) titled as if it were a declaration- and could be revised to be one. Still, agreed.

A declaration still doesn't have the ability to do anything. If not, the recent declaration regarding embassy collectors would have nuked most of them.

On another note, I imagine you've been on the site long enough to witness other occupations - for me, Kelios and UEPU are the ones I can name off the top of my head. Surely you've seen how defenders rushed to their aid, how libjuncts were submitted almost instantly, and the regions eventually were freed.

As a newish raider myself, I went tag raiding once, and was stopped by defenders half of the time - they cared enough to stop us from putting reversible graffiti on two-nation regions without a WA delegate.

If defenders are willing to defend pretty much anything that can be touched by raiders, it begs the question - if they don't bother to defend a region, there must be a very good reason. Accept it.


Unrelated to the post of mine that you quoted. Furthermore, I’m thoroughly uninterested in the moralization of a blatant griefing run.

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Test eleven one
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Postby Test eleven one » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:47 pm

Suthanimark wrote:Please, God, Allah, Sheva, the Jade Emperor, ancestors, and Papa Legba. Let this all end.
Nobody's coming to miraculously save RWoT. Nobody who has any GP clout wants to save RWoT.
RWoT made the big mistake of letting fascists in and by the time they decided that it was a bad idea, it was too late for them.
It's not your place, nor anyone else's, to be telling defenders which regions they have to defend. If defenders don't want to touch a region with a gods-damned ten foot pole, then that's their choice.
Just let it go.

stop glazing elsa, im not trying to liberate rwt
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Merethin
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Postby Merethin » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:49 pm

Trinitraria wrote:
Merethin wrote:A declaration still doesn't have the ability to do anything. If not, the recent declaration regarding embassy collectors would have nuked most of them.

On another note, I imagine you've been on the site long enough to witness other occupations - for me, Kelios and UEPU are the ones I can name off the top of my head. Surely you've seen how defenders rushed to their aid, how libjuncts were submitted almost instantly, and the regions eventually were freed.

As a newish raider myself, I went tag raiding once, and was stopped by defenders half of the time - they cared enough to stop us from putting reversible graffiti on two-nation regions without a WA delegate.

If defenders are willing to defend pretty much anything that can be touched by raiders, it begs the question - if they don't bother to defend a region, there must be a very good reason. Accept it.


Unrelated to the post of mine that you quoted. Furthermore, I’m thoroughly uninterested in the moralization of a blatant griefing run.

My apologies if it wasn't clear, my post starting from the second paragraph was directed towards the proposal, proposal author(s), and people who keep trying to flood the SC with proposals to defend RWOT no matter what.
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Test eleven one
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Postby Test eleven one » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:52 pm

Merethin wrote:
Trinitraria wrote:
Unrelated to the post of mine that you quoted. Furthermore, I’m thoroughly uninterested in the moralization of a blatant griefing run.

My apologies if it wasn't clear, my post starting from the second paragraph was directed towards the proposal, proposal author(s), and people who keep trying to flood the SC with proposals to defend RWOT no matter what.

your awfully quiet after I said I didnt want to liberate Roses Without Thorns
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Postby The Scarlet Rot » Sat Oct 12, 2024 4:53 pm

lol
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