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How to Learn

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Kostane
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Founded: Nov 07, 2022
Father Knows Best State

How to Learn

Postby Kostane » Fri Oct 04, 2024 3:15 pm

In the United States, where I live, what children are taught in schools and how they learn these things has increasingly become a political topic. This is for good reason — learning is the foundation to the entire future. Honestly, there’s a lot of interesting discussion over the best ways to learn (even outside of what I’m forced to read in English class), to the point where there’s an entire field of study (pedagogy) devoted to it. But, there are several different methods of learning I’ve encountered over the years (please let me know if you have an idea I have not covered here — pedagogy is a very diverse field of study that I am admittedly not deeply educated on):

Learning by memorization: This is the most basic type of learning, the kind that nearly everyone is familiar with. You learn a bunch of relevant facts, and then get tested on your ability to memorize these facts. From the ABCs, to multiplication tables, stretching all the way to later history classes and mathematical formulas, learning by memorization is fairly commonplace, at least from what I’ve encountered in my educational experiences.

Learning by doing: Learning by doing involves the practical applications of things. I’ve seen this the most in my science classes, through things like dissections, labs measuring specific forces, and more. Learning by doing involves experimentation, and forming your own hypothesis. But, this does not just have to be limited to science classes — deriving formulas is used in mathematical, especially when learning about proofs. Classes like history or English, which are more theoretical are harder to learn by doing.

Learning by discussing: This is rooted in the idea that there’s no one right answer to a question. Only by gaining the ability to consider the multitude of perspectives that exist can we actually learn more in-depth about a subject. It’s also the most political controversial for both sides — progressives hate discussions that could contradict their beliefs (for example the absolutely horrible discussions about benefits of slavery that people are forced to learn in Florida), while conservatives rail against discussions over critical theory. Discussions are mostly found in English class, but other classes can involve them, depending on the structure of the curriculum.

These are most likely not all the different perspectives on how students best learn, and they definitely should not be taken as absolutes. A mixture of these styles is necessary for a well-rounded education. So, NationStates, what is the best way to make learning truly valuable?

I think that a mixture of these styles three is necessary — memorization should be used sparingly to establish a minimum basis for further education by the other two. It should be limited just to facts that would be unable to be learned through the other two methods. Then, students would use learning by doing to develop their own conclusions based on testing and experimenting with new things. Whether this is analyzing a book, doing a lab, or deriving math formulas, this step would likely be done as homework. All of this would be in preparation for learning through discussion, which would happen in the classroom. The teacher’s role would be minimal, merely as a moderator to make sure students stay on topic. Students would discuss their conclusions they gained by doing, and ultimately gain more knowledge on different perspectives. At the end, if necessary, the teacher would share their own perspective and/or other mainstream perspectives that were not fully addressed in the discussion. In this way, students would be able to develop their own ideas, ensuring creative thinking that stretches beyond a particular subject matter.
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Isla Byron
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Founded: May 12, 2024
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Isla Byron » Fri Oct 04, 2024 3:34 pm

i've heard (and also think it's the most reasonable to) learn the way you do things. isn't that just learning by doing though? no.

you learn by doing regarding physical activities. you learn by doing on an assembly line, the mcdonalds kitchen, writing, reading, drawing, and more.

you learn by memorizing for stupid high school classes. outside of that you need remember shit for college and interlink it with your 'learn by doing' brain. you can't write equations if you forgot how to write.

to learn by discussion is the mysterious third thing. the socratic seminar that everyone thinks is so awesome until a charismatic, quick rhetorician shows up. and then its no fun except for that person. facts dont win here per se, just the person who comes off the best to the audience. but i think maybe the best place to apply this is like an english or art class. art, media (i hate that word) is subjective blah blah blah.

outside of that it is really that simple. there is no how to. you just do your best. i never understood the focus on learning in school anyway. just goof off and pay attention to the right parts. good grades are great and everything but friends are better, way better. i wish i did the latter but at least i still have time.
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"Through certain half-deserted streets"
"When the evening is spread out against the sky"
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Floofybit
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Fri Oct 04, 2024 4:36 pm

I love learning by RP but it applies to very few things.
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Kostane
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Kostane » Fri Oct 04, 2024 4:53 pm

Isla Byron wrote:i've heard (and also think it's the most reasonable to) learn the way you do things. isn't that just learning by doing though? no.

If I understand your post, you’re saying the best way to learn is to learn the practical applications of things and not underlying theory. This does not seem to me to be beneficial — if you don’t understand why something works, progress can never be made to improve it. I think it’s most important to think about the why behind things (which is where discussion comes into play).

you learn by doing regarding physical activities. you learn by doing on an assembly line, the mcdonalds kitchen, writing, reading, drawing, and more.

you learn by memorizing for stupid high school classes. outside of that you need remember shit for college and interlink it with your 'learn by doing' brain. you can't write equations if you forgot how to write.

This seems to miss the point of learning. Memorization solely for high school classes and college is not applicable beyond that. The point of memorization should be beyond school. Memorization is for the arbitrary rules that make society function — from basic mathematics to laws.

to learn by discussion is the mysterious third thing. the socratic seminar that everyone thinks is so awesome until a charismatic, quick rhetorician shows up. and then its no fun except for that person. facts dont win here per se, just the person who comes off the best to the audience. but i think maybe the best place to apply this is like an english or art class. art, media (i hate that word) is subjective blah blah blah.

This does not constitute learning by discussion. If people are not involved in a discussion, that is a failure to reach learning by discussion, not a failure inherent in learning by discussion. Facts don’t win in the real world. Every person should have a responsibility to coherently explain their viewpoints, otherwise they commit themselves to blindly follow propaganda. Learning by discussion is the world’s best safeguard against the coming information dictatorship. If you can’t understand that there are different opinions, and understand why you support your own, then you are little more than a sheep following state propaganda.

outside of that it is really that simple. there is no how to. you just do your best. i never understood the focus on learning in school anyway. just goof off and pay attention to the right parts. good grades are great and everything but friends are better, way better. i wish i did the latter but at least i still have time.

I don’t understand the focus on friends in school. If you want to make friends, drop out of school and go make friends. But, you are lucky to have education, heavily subsidized by the state in most cases, that allows you to be prepared for your future. Education is the critical point in any advanced society — you cannot have development, innovation, or substantive discussions that drive society forward with education. Good grades are worthless, so it is true that friends are better. But good learning is absolutely irreplaceable.
Floofybit wrote:I love learning by RP but it applies to very few things.

Unsure of whether this counts as learning by doing (as it is a simulation of doing something), or learning by discussing (as it is an interaction with other people over competing viewpoints of what the RP is). Learning by RP is definitely a very interesting and probably more engaging way of learning.
Kostane is an old nation, rising from its enslavement to an AI overlord with attempts to be a global superpower.
Hi there! Pronouns are he/him, I’m a high schooler from Illinois who does debate in his free time (in addition to NS).
Kostane

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Stantenople
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Founded: Dec 13, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Critical Thinking

Postby Stantenople » Fri Oct 04, 2024 5:39 pm

Although perhaps not entirely on the topic of learning, but rather on the topic of "what is being taught", I am of the rather firm belief that economics, at least the concept of supply and demand should be a compulsory subject/topic. How and why there are monopolies etc.

I am sure it could, as a side effect, teach a student critical thought. ie. Company A can make more selling at $1000 while selling less rather than the market equilibrium of $5/$6. Why is that, and who is the larger beneficiary of this. Is there a way to prohibit this from happening to products in the lifesaving industry? If so, why isn't it happening already?

We must remember a staggering number of the population of most countries only truly make contact with the market informally through trading with friends at school, to brick and mortar stores. A person is perfectly capable of living a marvelous life while being entirely unaware of how supply and demand works;

However. I am certain that it is for their own good that they are not easily swayed by politicians saying as an example that private medical aid will save you more while in actuality those companies have a mark-up of products for non medical aid members as opposed to universal coverage of something akin to it will have you paying a small fee instead which would ensure your own quality treatment should you need it.

Though perhaps medical aid is a poor choice and I have not delved too much into my mentioned topics, though I hope to have made my message clear

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Oct 04, 2024 7:05 pm

Learning languages by total immersion could be construed as learning by doing. You have to actively listen, practice pronunciation, phonetics, read, speak. All these require doing.
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So uh lab here
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Conservative Democracy

Postby So uh lab here » Fri Oct 04, 2024 7:08 pm

Carefully that is the best way to learn.
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Torisakia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Torisakia » Fri Oct 04, 2024 8:03 pm

I'm more of a learning by doing person. You can sit there and explain a concept to me 1 million times and I'll never get it. But gives me hands-on experience with it and I'll learn everything there is to know in less than a week. Yes, I do fall somewhere on the Autism spectrum.

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Isla Byron
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Founded: May 12, 2024
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Isla Byron » Fri Oct 04, 2024 9:24 pm

Kostane wrote:lengthy debunk of why im stupid and wrong /s

i think ultimately my mistake here was the is/ought gap. i think i meant to direct the post as something of a dirge for my educational experience and how to function in school. granted that isn't exactly what the thread is about per se but i think it would be helpful to think practically like this. im talking about my experience as an american student with some college down and i want to drop a dose of le cynical epic realisme /s again because we're outside of f7 and im scared.

it's difficult. it's not like you can drop out at like 12, because you need your diploma, so most people there stick it out for the 1/1000 chance they can be a desk receptionist instead of a kitchen receptionist. they dont wanna be there, especially the guys because they're convinced they're gonna be welders until they die, but the girls wanna eat hot chip and scroll tiktok or instagram reels (which admittedly are very funny places.) and it's not like having a high school diploma is much different than not having one at all, you're gonna be stuck in the same food service job anyway. so, people online and everyone else that you trust in your life like parents, teachers, therapists, tiktokers, and god knows who else begin to tell you that a college degree is the next high school diploma. you're stuck in burger king, and now you're even dumber for it.

you scrounge up the money to go to school and afford the payments if your parents hate you or can't support you. you're at the loneliest point in your life for the 12th time smoking carts in a forgotten parking lot. you move in to your dorm. everyone has their doors closed. it's so quiet you can hear a mouse getting electrocuted to death in the walls. now you're completely isolated with a dormmate that is too scared or too inconvenienced to talk to you. about a month in you have a fat pile of work in your chromebook, and you found out that your dormmate is schizophrenic, the violent kind, the hard way. the school moves you to a different room in a nick of time and you still feel like the worst type of plastic garbage.

the semester ends and you get your grades back. your parents demand to see it if they supported you. it's bad. you were too depressed to work on anything but the work you did do wasn't completely bad. you turn in your final project late and it's a zero. this was all a big failure and you're solely and completely responsible for it. your parents ream you for days and weeks without end. and tell you to get a real fuckin' job. too bad they're all locked behind a paywall.

maybe education is for the gilded elite. for the perfect blonde white girls that like biology, or those rapey white boys who wanna pretend to be le funny better call saul, a combination made in hell. they have parents that love them after all, or at least parents that love them enough to send them far, far away. but maybe not parents that care enough if their daughter gets roofied by anyone, a professor, a manchild, by a man that looks like a superhero. no one would believe you anyway because it's not like you have friends that go like 'yaaaas' get em queen. you're at a stupid christian college. the chance that anyone says 'yaas' is demographically impossible as your sperm-freezing father likes to say. if you're lucky you have friends you can 'network' with. but it looks bad to make such a ruckus, so you get a few private condolences. maybe those are the ones that matter.

eventually, you're tired of this. rich or poor, black or white, mcdonalds or burger king. you buy a bunch of oxy and plan to go out partying. some stupid cop resurrects you with a lethal amount of narcan though. you're going to heaven sober. god raises you through the clouds, cold and humid, and brings you to the holy sun bask of abrahamic god. in all his wise years, he relives this unfortunate woman's torment, weeping. returning from his white eyed trance god puts a hand on the woman's shoulder and asks, 'why didn't you try memorizing your notes?'

anyways, i hope you guys account for which one is learning by doing or memorization. it'll matter in the grand scheme of things someday when the teachers wage goes up from $7.50 to $15 which is the magical number that should free america from poverty. okay i'll let you guys go from my dictatorial mind tyranny. i just want you guys to know real people live like this.

tl;dr lord sweet buddha please make me numb. it really feels like focusing on 'what type of education is the best' is missing the point. establish the conditions for kids and especially young adults to learn, they'll learn however they choose to, they know what's most efficient for them. they know themselves better than anyone else after all, (or at least hopefully.)
unlimited lesbian supremacist dystopianism-maxxing belief system
"Let us go, now you and I..."
"Through certain half-deserted streets"
"When the evening is spread out against the sky"
"Like a patient etherized upon a table"
"Let us go, through half deserted streets"
"The muttering retreats"
"Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels,
"And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:"
"Streets that follow like a tedious argument"
"Of insidious intent"
"To lead you to an overwhelming question..."
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?'"
"Let us go and make our visit."

woww what a good poem. how did i find it? cyberpunk 2077. im no english major.

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Aadhiris
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Aadhiris » Sat Oct 19, 2024 4:33 pm

/bump, somewhat of an interesting topic.
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BEEstreetz
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Founded: May 28, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby BEEstreetz » Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:24 pm

It's an interesting topic but OP needs to expand by introducing a few terms.

Pedagogy: Study of systematic and applied teaching methods for the transmission of knowledge and character development. Contemporary definitions limit Pedagogy to the study of transferring education. This limitation has a long history. It is most concerned with leaning spaces and teaching methods, aka classrooms and transmission of education.
Didactics: Methods by which epistemic will and knowledge is instilled by transmitting of what (is being taught), how (is it being taught) and why (justification on historical and socio-cultural choices of why this is taught). It is most concerned with learning methods and socialisation.

While these are in shambles, for the sake of OP, I'll expand specifically the teaching methods in a classroom setting:
  • Dialogue teaching (OP calls "discussion" but means the critical approach): Applicable only in private school settings.
  • Instrumental learning and evidence-based teaching "by doing": Most commonly applied method as it's the quickest way to pump out StEM graduates. However, I wouldn't call it education.
  • Memorisation? Memorisation is used in early years because it helps develop your brain. This isn't as common as it's portrayed to be and when it is used, it's used in social science fields - Which renders them completely useless. Memorisation should be practiced throughout life in the form of pursuing Formal sciences (Logic, Maths, Computer Science). It is quintessential before pursuing others, since you don't know how to think without it.
  • Model Learning/Learning by Model: Is the one I advocate for. You learn and teach by the ideal models presented to you which have clear patterns. You are tested on three levels: Replicating the model (memorisation); Creating the model (providing creativity and awarding innovation-relating it to behaviour pedagogy); Pattern connection of the models (this shouldn't be a criteria for most people)

There are a lot of issues with pursuing anything more than this. The only country which extensively covers Pedagogy as it should be is Denmark, having a specific state-funded institution for instilling education, behaviour, and socio-cultural values in all children.
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