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[LAST CALL] Bad Religion

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.
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Umbratellus
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Founded: Aug 22, 2021
Tyranny by Majority

[LAST CALL] Bad Religion

Postby Umbratellus » Sun Aug 11, 2024 8:29 pm

Salutations everyone,

I had what I thought was a fun idea for nations with the Atheism policy while I was out on a hike this morning - what if you got to have your own little French Revolution in the aftermath of the policy's passing? It's topic I've long enjoyed reading about - the germ of my nation's lore began with a Fanatic Materialist Stellaris nation - and I've acquainted myself with many of the peculiar practices that briefly arose before being washed away by history (and Napoleon) in the revolution's aftermath to better flesh out a believable history for my supremely secular nation. I believe that I have characterized this draft in a sufficiently distinct fashion to largely differentiate it from #1014, but if it appears to others that there may be too much overlap, I'll see what I can do to make it more unique. I hope everyone enjoys this good faith attempt at an issue having a little bit of good fun at the irrationality of rationality. ;) Comments, criticisms, and suggestions are always welcome!




TITLE: Bad Religion

VALIDITY: Has Atheism policy

DESCRIPTION: In between body-racking sobs, your brother stammers out, "...and then my youngest, she—she asked me, 'Daddy, does God love me?' I don't know where she could have gotten such a sick notion in her head! We—you've got to find out who's corrupting the minds of our children and putting religious ideas like this in their heads, and put a stop to it!"

OPTION 1: "Look around! Look around," loudly proclaims radical futurist Umberto Broccoli. "Everywhere we see, our frescos and façades, the statues in our streets, the poems on our parchments, they all bear the indelible stain of religion and uphold the irrational! All your niece would have to have done is visit any gallery or public avenue to see pieces by the so-called 'great masters,' and the gods and old ruling order they upheld." Lighting a priceless Da Finci painting on fire, he roars, "It's time to abolish it all! Burn down the museums, smash their sculptures, sack the libraries filled with their archaic screeds - their stranglehold on the arts must be ended once and for all!"

OUTCOME 1: every record has been erased and every picture painted over

OPTION 2: "Ah, the sad truth is," muses the newly appointed National Philosopher Max Togaspierre, "she may well have learned such foolish notions from those who meant best for her; one of her instructors might well have asked her to recite the days of the week: Thor'sday, perhaps?" Loudly slapping an out of date calendar on the wall, he continues, "look, even the length of the week reflects some ancient creation myth! There should be a much more logical system of horology: base-ten perhaps? It's high time we expunge the sciences of every trace of the rotten remnants of religion!"

OUTCOME 2: the second day of the week has been renamed from Tuesday to Twosday

OPTION 3: Slamming his fist on a table, atheist hardliner Jakob Hubert begins a furious rant. "It's not the paintings of dead men or the postulations of some dead monk that are poisoning the minds of our children, it's the religious! The living, damnable religious! Even now they ferret their sickening tomes in secret places, and practice their wretched rites in the shadows! For all we know they could have left some putrid pamphlet that your niece stumbled across in public! We must turn the full surveillance capabilities of the state against this cancer. Every man, woman, or child we even suspect of harboring irrational belief should be brought in for 'interrogation,' and when we uncover some unsanctioned ceremony - public executions for the whole lot of them!"

OUTCOME 3: the guillotine's a-swingin' all night long

OPTION 4: A mysterious robed figure waves a dismissive hand, "the child is simple, she merely craves the comforts that religion once offered the people; community, structure, systemization of the world around them. We must offer our own enlightened alternative: secular and rational cults! We can take the old shuttered churches and cathedrals and appoint them our Temples of Reason! The streets will reverberate with mantras of supreme atheist logic! At every corner we will proclaim a euphoric new dogma of our truth and liberty!"

OUTCOME 4: soi-disant free-thinkers line up for their weekly sermons





TITLE: Bad Religion (Draft 3)

VALIDITY: Has Atheism policy

DESCRIPTION: In between body-racking sobs, your brother stammers out, "...and then my youngest, she—she asked me, 'Daddy, does God love me?' I don't know where she could have gotten such a sick notion in her head! We—you've got to find out who's corrupting the minds of our children and putting religious ideas like this in their heads, and put a stop to it!"

OPTION 1: "Look around! Look around," loudly proclaims radical futurist Umberto Broccoli. "Everywhere we see; our frescos and façades; the statues in our streets; the poems on our parchments; they all bear the indelible stain of religion and uphold the dogma of the irrational! All your niece would have to have done is visit any gallery or public avenue to see pieces by the so-called 'great masters,' and the gods and old ruling order they upheld." Lighting a priceless Da Finci painting on fire, he roars, "It's time to abolish it all! Burn down the museums, smash their sculptures, sack the libraries filled with their archaic screeds - their stranglehold on the arts must be ended once and for all!"

OUTCOME 1: it's possible to count all the works of art in @@NAME@@ on a single hand

OPTION 2: "Ah, but the sad truth is," muses the newly appointed National Philosopher Max Togaspierre, "she may well have learned such foolish notions from those who meant best for her; one of her instructors might well have asked her to recite the days of the week; Thor'sday, perhaps? It's a sad blight on the legacy of our sciences that so much of it has been tainted by the superstitions of misguided natural philosophers that forsook rationality for the comforts of belief." Loudly slapping an out of date calendar on the wall, he continues, "look at this, even the length of the week reflect some ancient creation myth! Why seven? There should be a much more logical and rational system of horology; base-ten perhaps? It's high time we expunge the sciences of every trace of the rotten remnants of religion!"

OUTCOME 2: the second day of the week has been renamed from Tuesday to Twosday

OPTION 3: Slamming his fist on a table, atheist hardliner Jakob Hubert begins a furious rant. "It's not the paintings of dead men or the postulations of some dead monk that are poisoning the minds of our children, it's the religious! The living, damnable religious! Even now they ferret their sickening tomes in secret places, and practice their wretched rites in the shadows! For all we know they could have left some putrid pamphlet that your niece stumbled across in public! We must turn the full surveillance capabilities of the state against this cancer. Every man, woman, or child we even suspect of harboring irrational belief should be brought in for 'interrogation,' and when we uncover some unsanctioned ceremony - public executions for the whole lot of them!"

OUTCOME 3: the guillotine's a-swingin' all night long

OPTION 4: A mysterious robed figure waves a dismissive hand, "the child is simple, she merely craves the comforts that religion once offered the people; community, structure, systemization of the world around them. We must simply offer our own enlightened alternative; secular and rational cults! We can take the old shuttered churches and cathedrals and appoint them our Temples of Reason! The streets will reverberate with mantras of supreme atheist logic! At every corner we will proclaim a euphoric new dogma of our truth and liberty!"

OUTCOME 4: logical free-thinkers line up for their weekly sermons at the Temple of Reason



TITLE: Bad Religion (Draft 2)

VALIDITY: Has Atheism policy

DESCRIPTION: In between body-racking sobs, your brother stammers out, "...and then my youngest, she—she asked me, 'Daddy, does God love me?' I don't know where she could have gotten such a sick notion in her head! We—you've got to find out who's corrupting the minds of our children and putting religious ideas like this in their heads, and put a stop to it!"

OPTION 1: "Look around! Look around," loudly proclaims radical futurist Umberto Broccoli. "Everywhere we see; our frescos and façades; the statues in our streets; the poems on our parchments; they all bear the indelible stain of religion and uphold the dogma of the irrational! All your niece would have to have done is visit any gallery or public avenue to see pieces by the so-called 'great masters,' and the gods and old ruling order they upheld." Lighting a priceless Da Finci painting on fire, he roars, "It's time to abolish it all! Burn down the mus-," he begins sputtering and choking on the fumes of the toxic paints, and after regaining his composure, wheezes out, "burn down the museums, smash their sculptures, sack the libraries filled with their archaic screeds - their stranglehold on the arts must be ended once and for all!"

OUTCOME 1: the most ancient painting in @@NAME@@ is 10 years old

OPTION 2: "Ah, but the sad truth is," muses the newly appointed National Philosopher Max Togaspierre, "she may well have learned such foolish notions from those who meant best for her; one of her instructors might well have asked her to name the planets, all named after miserable old deities! Maybe she was asked to recite the days of the week; Thor'sday, perhaps? It's a sad blight on the legacy of our sciences that so much of it has been tainted by the superstitions of misguided natural philosophers that forsook rationality for the comforts of belief." Loudly slapping an out of date calendar on the wall, he continues, "look at this, even the length of the week reflect some ancient creation myth! Why seven? There should be 10 months in a year, 10 days in a week, 10 hours in a day; a much more logical and rational system of horology. It's high time we expunge the sciences of every trace of the rotten remnants of religion!"

OUTCOME 2: Godwin's law has been renamed to Sciencewin's law

OPTION 3: Slamming his fist on a table, atheist hardliner Jakob Hubert begins a furious rant. "It's not the paintings of dead men or the postulations of some dead monk that are poisoning the minds of our children, it's the religious! The living, damnable religious! Even now they ferret their sickening tomes in secret places, and practice their wretched rites in the shadows! For all we know they could have left some putrid pamphlet that your niece stumbled across in public! We must turn the full surveillance capabilities of the state against this cancer. Every man, woman, or child we even suspect of harboring irrational belief should be brought in for 'interrogation,' and when we uncover some unsanctioned ceremony - public executions for the whole lot of them!"

OUTCOME 3: the guillotine's a-swingin' all night long

OPTION 4: A mysterious robed figure waves a dismissive hand, "the child is simple, she merely craves the comforts that religion once offered the people; community, structure, systemization of the world around them. We must simply offer our own enlightened alternative; secular and rational cults! We can take the old shuttered churches and cathedrals and appoint them our Temples of Reason! The streets will reverberate with mantras of supreme atheist logic! At every corner we will proclaim a euphoric new dogma of our truth and liberty!" Looking around with a sly grin, @@HE@@ continues, "I also have a great idea for a new fertility cult, too..."

OUTCOME 4: logical free-thinkers line up for their weekly sermons at the Temple of Reason




TITLE: Bad Religion (Draft 1)

VALIDITY: Has Atheism policy

DESCRIPTION: Ever since the glorious @@TYPE@@ outlawed the barbaric practice of religion, a grand new age of supreme rational enlightenment has dawned. Unfortunately, the poisonous tendrils of religion have yet to be fully uprooted, preventing @@NAME@@ from reaching supreme hyper-rational enlightenment. A council of the land's most reasonable figures has been convened to determine how best to eradicate superstition from the land.

OPTION 1: "The arts have long languished under the burden of the so-called 'great masters,' and the religious dogma that their works upheld," proclaims radical futurist Umberto Broccoli while lighting a priceless Da Finci painting on fire. "What are these old 'masterpieces' all depicting? Gods, divinities, and the old ruling order that was upheld by their doctrines. It's time to abolish it all! Burn down the mus-," he begins sputtering and choking on the fumes of the toxic paints, and after regaining his composure, wheezes out, "burn down the museums, smash their statues, sack the libraries filled with their archaic screeds - their stranglehold on the arts must be ended once and for all!"

OUTCOME 1: the most ancient painting in @@NAME@@ is 10 years old

OPTION 2: "The arts have suffered? Shameful ignorance - it's the sciences that have atrophied the most from the ruinous influence of religion," shouts the newly appointed and red in the face National Philosopher Max Togaspierre. "The planets whizzing above our heads are named after miserable old deities! They should be named after great @@DENOMYM@@ thinkers! Countless scientific theorems are littered with the detritus of misguided natural philosophers who forsook rationality for the comforts of belief! Godwin's Law? It should be Sciencewin's Law! Even our horological systems uphold a religious framework! What's rational about a 7 day week? Nothing! Nothing at all! We must rationalize time - 10 months in a year, 10 days a week, 10 hours a day. Free science from this wretched legacy!"

OUTCOME 2: workers groan under the ultra-rational 9 day work week

OPTION 3: Slamming his fist on the table, atheist hardliner Jakob Hubert begins a furious rant. "It's not the paintings of dead men or the postulations of some dead monk that are dragging @@NAME@@ down, it's the damned religious! The living, damnable religious! Even now they ferret their sickening tomes in secret places, and practice their wretched rites in the shadows, perverting the minds of the youth! We must turn the full surveillance capabilities of the state against this cancer! Every man, woman, or child we even suspect of harboring irrational belief should be brought in for 'interrogation,' and when we uncover some unsanctioned ceremony - public executions for the whole lot of them!"

OUTCOME 3: the guillotine's a swingin' all night long

OPTION 4: Gazing around the room, a mysterious robed figure waves a dismissive hand, "I hope that cooler heads may prevail here; destruction is easy enough, but we must ask ourselves, what did religion provide for the people? Community, structure, systemization of the world around them. If we really want to throw off the yoke of religion once and for all, we must provide an alternative to what their houses of worship once provided - secular and rational cults! We should take their grand churches and cathedrals and convert them into Temples of Reason preaching a doctrine of supreme atheistic logic! No more will we celebrate our cerebral subjugation to the heavens; it is time to proclaim a new dogma of our truth and liberty!" Looking around with a sly grin, @@HE@@ continues, "I also have a great idea for a new fertility cult, too..."

OUTCOME 4: logical free-thinkers line up for their weekly sermons at the Temple of Reason
Last edited by Umbratellus on Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:12 pm, edited 18 times in total.

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Prisoma
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Posts: 41
Founded: Nov 07, 2023
Democratic Socialists

Postby Prisoma » Mon Aug 12, 2024 4:11 am

Very well written

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Bir Matras
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Posts: 191
Founded: Jun 24, 2024
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Bir Matras » Mon Aug 12, 2024 4:16 am

Shouldn't it be "the guillotines are swinging all night long?

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Umbratellus
Diplomat
 
Posts: 646
Founded: Aug 22, 2021
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Umbratellus » Mon Aug 12, 2024 4:39 am

Prisoma wrote:Very well written

Thank you! I appreciate it. ^^

Bir Matras wrote:Shouldn't it be "the guillotines are swinging all night long?

What makes you say that? As far as I can tell guillotine is a singular noun.

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Bir Matras
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Posts: 191
Founded: Jun 24, 2024
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Bir Matras » Mon Aug 12, 2024 4:47 am

Bir Matras wrote:Shouldn't it be "the guillotines are swinging all night long?

What makes you say that? As far as I can tell guillotine is a singular noun.

You wrote:" the guillotine's a swinging all night long." if you meant a singular guillotine it should be "is" and not "a"
Last edited by Bir Matras on Mon Aug 12, 2024 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Umbratellus
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Posts: 646
Founded: Aug 22, 2021
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Umbratellus » Mon Aug 12, 2024 4:54 am

Bir Matras wrote:You wrote:" the guillotine's a swinging all night long." if you meant a singular guillotine it should be "is" and not "a"

Oh, if you expand out the contraction it’s “the guillotine is a swingin’ all night long,” I intended it to have a little bit of a musical/poetic quality to imply a sense of casualness or blasé about the executions.
Last edited by Umbratellus on Mon Aug 12, 2024 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sensorland
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Posts: 2019
Founded: Jun 30, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sensorland » Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:53 am

Umbratellus wrote:It's topic I've long enjoyed reading about - the germ of my nation's lore began with a Fanatic Materialist Stellaris nation
Oh, nice, a fellow Stellaris player. Anyway, this issue is brilliant. Huge fan.
My annotations in blue.
Umbratellus wrote:
TITLE: Bad Religion

VALIDITY: Has Atheism policy

DESCRIPTION: Ever since the glorious @@TYPE@@ outlawed the barbaric practice of religion, a grand new age of supreme rational enlightenment has dawned. Reminds me of the opener for 1213: The War of Man and Beast. Unfortunately, the poisonous tendrils of religion have yet to be fully uprooted, preventing @@NAME@@ from reaching supreme hyper-rational enlightenment. Not to mention euphoria! How can your people be euphoric if they're still experiencing phony gods' blessings and not being enlightened by their intelligence? A council has been convened to determine how best to eradicate superstition from the land.

OPTION 1: "The arts have long languished under the burden of the so-called 'great masters,' and the religious dogma that their works upheld," proclaims radical futurist @@RANDOMNAME@@ while lighting a priceless painting on fire. "What are these old 'masterpieces' all depicting? Gods, divinities, and the old ruling order that was upheld by their doctrines. It's time to abolish it all! Burn down the mus-," Did @@NAME@@ not have a renaissance, or is this guy just ignorant? @@HE@@ begins sputtering and choking on the fumes of the toxic paints, and after regaining his composure, wheezes out, "burn down the museums, smash their statues, sack the libraries filled with their archaic screeds - their stranglehold on the arts must be ended once and for all!" I imagine this option will tank the culture of anyone picks it.

OUTCOME 1: the most ancient painting in @@NAME@@ is 10 years old

OPTION 2: "The arts have suffered? Shameful ignorance - it's the sciences that have atrophied the most from the ruinous influence of religion," shouts the newly appointed and red in the face National Philosopher @@RANDOMNAME@@. Oh, surely you can do better than a random name here. This option is very French Revolution inspired, so you could spoof the name of a French philosopher from that time, or another popular anti-religious scientific realist figure. "The planets whizzing above our heads are named after miserable old deities! They should be named after great @@DENOMYM@@ thinkers! Countless scientific theorems are littered with the detritus of misguided natural philosophers who forsook rationality for the comforts of belief! Godwin's Law? It should be Sciencewin's Law! Even our horological systems uphold a religious framework! What's rational about a 7 day week? Nothing! Nothing at all! We must rationalize time - 10 months in a year, 10 days a week, 10 hours a day. Free science from this wretched legacy!"

OUTCOME 2: workers groan under the ultra-rational 9 day work week

OPTION 3: Slamming @@HIS@@ fist on the table, atheist hardliner @@RANDOMNAME@@ begins a furious rant. "It's not the paintings of dead men or the postulations of some dead monk that are dragging @@NAME@@ down, it's the damned religious! The living, damnable religious! Even now they ferret their sickening tomes in secret places, and practice their wretched rites in the shadows! We must turn the full surveillance capabilities of the state against this cancer! Every man, woman, or child we even suspect of harboring irrational belief should be brought in for 'interrogation,' and when we uncover some unsanctioned ceremony - public executions for the whole lot of them!" Invalid for nations without capital punishment?

OUTCOME 3: the guillotine's a swingin' all night long

OPTION 4: Gazing around the room, a mysterious robed figure waves a dismissive hand , "I hope that cooler heads may prevail here; destruction is easy enough, but we must ask ourselves, what did religion provide for the people? Community, structure, systemization of the world around them. If we really want to throw off the yoke of religion once and for all, we must provide an alternative to what their houses of worship once provided - secular and rational cults! We should take their grand churches and cathedrals and convert them into Temples of Reason preaching a doctrine of supreme atheistic logic! No more will we celebrate our cerebral subjugation to the heavens; it is time to proclaim a new dogma of our truth and liberty!" Looking around with a sly grin, @@HE@@ continues, "I also have a great idea for a new fertility cult, too..." Fantastic option. No notes.

OUTCOME 4: logical free-thinkers line up for their weekly sermons at the Temple of Reason

My only concern is that there's no option to change course. I do get what you're going for and how you want it to be distinct from 1014, but I still think it's not ideal if all of the speakers in an issue more or less agree on the broad strokes, if not the details of how to proceed. That aside... *chef's kiss.* One of the best drafts I've seen in a while. Lots of fun, fantastic for the nations it targets. Great stuff.
Sensorland of the West Pacific
AKA Sensoria (The Outback), Sensorian Isles (Warzone Trinidad)
NS is a fun game. Don't take it too seriously.
Author of issue #1325
Social liberal, progressive, atheist, vegan
SherpDaWerp wrote:I'd say Sensorland is correct - a particularly enterprising 7-year-old may return from the wilderness and go straight to work in the coal mines.

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Umbratellus
Diplomat
 
Posts: 646
Founded: Aug 22, 2021
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Umbratellus » Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:49 am

Hey Sensorland, thanks for the great feedback! I'm going to snip out your annotations from the issue text to make replying a little easier. For some of them, I'm going to explain my reasoning behind the initial draft, and then I'll see what you think after that - if course correction is still needed or what steps could be taken to convey the original idea a little better.

Sensorland wrote:Reminds me of the opener for 1213: The War of Man and Beast.


I haven't ever gotten that issue before! I've never really had a vegetarian nation, lol. I think there's wee bit of thematic overlap in the self-mythologization of the nation, so it's appropriate.

Not to mention euphoria! How can your people be euphoric if they're still experiencing phony gods' blessings and not being enlightened by their intelligence?


So true. : p

Did @@NAME@@ not have a renaissance, or is this guy just ignorant?


The Futurists in many ways were a revolt against the cultural legacy of the Renaissance. I don't have my copy of the Futurist Manifesto handy at present, so I'm just going to nab an appropriate quote from the Wikipedia article.
"We want to fight implacably against the mindless, snobbish, and fanatical religion of the past, religion nurtured by the pernicious existence of the museums. We rebel against the spineless admiration for old canvases, old statues, and old objects, and against the enthusiasm for everything worm-eaten, grimy, or corroded by time; and we deem it unjust and criminal that people habitually disdain whatever is young, new, and trembling with life."

For an issue occurring in the nebulous "now" and not during the actual French Revolution, I thought invoking a Futurist perspective would be both interesting and appropriate for the extremity of the suggested action. Should I perhaps rephrase that line a little to suggest that @@NAME@@'s art isn't so medieval? Alternatively though, a bunch of self-proclaimed rationalists being ignorant adds to the meta-level humor I'll discuss a little bit below lol.

I imagine this option will tank the culture of anyone picks it.


As would I! You can't have a cultural revolution without breaking a few Eycks. : p

Oh, surely you can do better than a random name here. This option is very French Revolution inspired, so you could spoof the name of a French philosopher from that time, or another popular anti-religious scientific realist figure.


That is a very valid point! I also wanted to reference an artist in option 1 as well, ala "a priceless X painting," but I hadn't considered extending that to the rest of the names throughout. I'll see if I can come up with some good homages and parodies. It was quite well passed my usual bedtime when I hammered out the issue, so the thought hadn't even crossed my mind.

Invalid for nations without capital punishment?


I think it would be appropriate circumstances to obtain the policy, especially considering it insinuates the use of torture on suspected religious individuals.

Fantastic option. No notes.


Haha, thank you! The state cults that were established by the French Revolution are an interesting little episode in history, even if the Bacchic excesses of the Cult of Reason were perhaps a tad overblown by counter-revolutionary propaganda. Doesn't mean you can't go there on NationStates, though!

My only concern is that there's no option to change course. I do get what you're going for and how you want it to be distinct from 1014, but I still think it's not ideal if all of the speakers in an issue more or less agree on the broad strokes, if not the details of how to proceed. That aside... *chef's kiss.* One of the best drafts I've seen in a while. Lots of fun, fantastic for the nations it targets. Great stuff


Thanks again, I appreciate the kind words! To elaborate a little bit on what I see as the meta-level humor for the issue; you have a bunch of angry men (and one pervert) coming together to try to make the land a more rational place; by engaging in group think, extreme group polarization (including calling for torture & mass executions) - all while decrying the barbarism of religion - situational irony, I think. I'm also of the school of thought that not every issue about X policy needs an option to repeal it (from what I can tell, there's about 3x as many issues that repeal Atheism as do add it, and I've accidentally removed it twice already lol); plus 5 options would be a lot for one issue. I'm not opposed to writing a new option, I would just like to see some consensus that it's needed to round it out. To me personally though, I did see the fourth option as somewhat changing direction; it's less destructive and more considerate of what religion provides to society, even if the speaker is mostly just in it for the orgies lol.
Last edited by Umbratellus on Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Umbratellus
Diplomat
 
Posts: 646
Founded: Aug 22, 2021
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Umbratellus » Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:00 pm

Alright, made a slight edit to the issue; @@RANDOMNAME@@s are out, fixed names are in!

For option 1, the speaker is now Umberto Broccoli, burning a painting by "Da Finci". The newly appointed National Philosopher is now Max Togaspierre. The speaker calling for mass executions is now Jakob Hubert, a Germanification of the etymology of Jacques Hébert - who appropriately perished under the fall of a guillotine. Let me know if you think they're decent puns. Image
Last edited by Umbratellus on Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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United Greater Seljuk State
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 144
Founded: Aug 12, 2024
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Greater Seljuk State » Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:03 pm

Umbratellus wrote:Salutations everyone,

I had what I thought was a fun idea for nations with the Atheism policy while I was out on a hike this morning - what if you got to have your own little French Revolution in the aftermath of the policy's passing? It's topic I've long enjoyed reading about - the germ of my nation's lore began with a Fanatic Materialist Stellaris nation - and I've acquainted myself with many of the peculiar practices that briefly arose before being washed away by history (and Napoleon) in the revolution's aftermath to better flesh out a believable history for my supremely secular nation. I believe that I have characterized this draft in a sufficiently distinct fashion to largely differentiate it from #1014, but if it appears to others that there may be too much overlap, I'll see what I can do to make it more unique. As an Atheist myself, I hope everyone enjoys this good faith attempt at an issue having a little bit of good fun at the irrationality of rationality. ;) Comments, criticisms, and suggestions are always welcome!

TITLE: Bad Religion

VALIDITY: Has Atheism policy

DESCRIPTION: Ever since the glorious @@TYPE@@ outlawed the barbaric practice of religion, a grand new age of supreme rational enlightenment has dawned. Unfortunately, the poisonous tendrils of religion have yet to be fully uprooted, preventing @@NAME@@ from reaching supreme hyper-rational enlightenment. A council has been convened to determine how best to eradicate superstition from the land.

OPTION 1: "The arts have long languished under the burden of the so-called 'great masters,' and the religious dogma that their works upheld," proclaims radical futurist Umberto Broccoli while lighting a priceless Hierophant Borscht painting on fire. "What are these old 'masterpieces' all depicting? Gods, divinities, and the old ruling order that was upheld by their doctrines. It's time to abolish it all! Burn down the mus-," @@HE@@ begins sputtering and choking on the fumes of the toxic paints, and after regaining his composure, wheezes out, "burn down the museums, smash their statues, sack the libraries filled with their archaic screeds - their stranglehold on the arts must be ended once and for all!"

OUTCOME 1: the most ancient painting in @@NAME@@ is 10 years old

OPTION 2: "The arts have suffered? Shameful ignorance - it's the sciences that have atrophied the most from the ruinous influence of religion," shouts the newly appointed and red in the face National Philosopher Max Togaspierre. "The planets whizzing above our heads are named after miserable old deities! They should be named after great @@DENOMYM@@ thinkers! Countless scientific theorems are littered with the detritus of misguided natural philosophers who forsook rationality for the comforts of belief! Godwin's Law? It should be Sciencewin's Law! Even our horological systems uphold a religious framework! What's rational about a 7 day week? Nothing! Nothing at all! We must rationalize time - 10 months in a year, 10 days a week, 10 hours a day. Free science from this wretched legacy!"

OUTCOME 2: workers groan under the ultra-rational 9 day work week

OPTION 3: Slamming @@HIS@@ fist on the table, atheist hardliner Jakob Hubert begins a furious rant. "It's not the paintings of dead men or the postulations of some dead monk that are dragging @@NAME@@ down, it's the damned religious! The living, damnable religious! Even now they ferret their sickening tomes in secret places, and practice their wretched rites in the shadows! We must turn the full surveillance capabilities of the state against this cancer! Every man, woman, or child we even suspect of harboring irrational belief should be brought in for 'interrogation,' and when we uncover some unsanctioned ceremony - public executions for the whole lot of them!"

OUTCOME 3: the guillotine's a swingin' all night long

OPTION 4: Gazing around the room, a mysterious robed figure waves a dismissive hand , "I hope that cooler heads may prevail here; destruction is easy enough, but we must ask ourselves, what did religion provide for the people? Community, structure, systemization of the world around them. If we really want to throw off the yoke of religion once and for all, we must provide an alternative to what their houses of worship once provided - secular and rational cults! We should take their grand churches and cathedrals and convert them into Temples of Reason preaching a doctrine of supreme atheistic logic! No more will we celebrate our cerebral subjugation to the heavens; it is time to proclaim a new dogma of our truth and liberty!" Looking around with a sly grin, @@HE@@ continues, "I also have a great idea for a new fertility cult, too..."

OUTCOME 4: logical free-thinkers line up for their weekly sermons at the Temple of Reason

Shouldn't Outcome IV be «ceremonies» instead of «sermons»?
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Postby Umbratellus » Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:05 pm

United Greater Seljuk State wrote:Shouldn't Outcome IV be «ceremonies» instead of «sermons»?

Can you elaborate on that for me? To me sermons makes it sound like they're visiting for weekly mass, making it a situationally ironic outcome.

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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Aug 13, 2024 2:45 am

Point of contention- description- there's a difference between a religion and superstition
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Postby Umbratellus » Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:33 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Point of contention- description- there's a difference between a religion and superstition

A superstition is any belief or practice considered by non-practitioners to be irrational or supernatural, attributed to fate or magic, perceived supernatural influence, or fear of that which is unknown.


…superstitions as irrational beliefs at odds with scientific knowledge of the world

- source

The difference is the perception to an outsider, not the practitioner. From an anti-theistic perspective, all religion is superstition.
Last edited by Umbratellus on Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:38 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Aug 13, 2024 6:47 am

Umbratellus wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Point of contention- description- there's a difference between a religion and superstition

A superstition is any belief or practice considered by non-practitioners to be irrational or supernatural, attributed to fate or magic, perceived supernatural influence, or fear of that which is unknown.


…superstitions as irrational beliefs at odds with scientific knowledge of the world

- source

The difference is the perception to an outsider, not the practitioner. From an anti-theistic perspective, all religion is superstition.

Fair enough. Carry on
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Tue Aug 13, 2024 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Socialismia » Tue Aug 13, 2024 3:36 pm

Shouldn't option 3 have an alternate for nations without execution?
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Postby Umbratellus » Tue Aug 13, 2024 3:54 pm

Socialismia wrote:Shouldn't option 3 have an alternate for nations without execution?

Issue options can add a policy too; and besides, the Reign of Terror wasn’t really known for its restraint or high minded rehabilitation efforts. A good portion of the options that add the Atheism policy already involve forcibly committing the religious to psychiatric institutions; where do you go from there that’s more extreme? The Atheism policy itself represents a government where religion is a crime, not just a “really secular” government.
Last edited by Umbratellus on Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:04 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Postby Umbratellus » Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:19 am

Made a slight tweak to the description;
A council has been convened to determine how best to eradicate superstition from the land.

has been expanded to
A council of the land's most reasonable figures has been convened to determine how best to eradicate superstition from the land.

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Postby Varnash » Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:30 am

maybe consider changing “a swingin’” to “a-swingin’”
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Postby Umbratellus » Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:34 am

Varnash wrote:maybe consider changing “a swingin’” to “a-swingin’”

Why is that? I'm reviewing my rules for hyphenation right now and I'm not seeing anything that would suggest it's a "more proper" form—thought it is certainly possible I'm just overlooking something or else misremembering it here.
Last edited by Umbratellus on Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Verdant Haven » Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:59 am

This is well written, but as you speculate in your intro, it basically just is Issue 1014 again. "Execute Religious People" is 1014.1 and "Focus on teaching science and reason" is 1014.2. What's more, the actual description basically is the same – "You're atheist, but people still practice religion."

I think there is room for this, and the French Revolution angle on addressing rationality is absolutely a good way to do so, but I would try to find a more specific event or trigger than just "religion still exists." That may help then guide the nature of the options presented, so that they perhaps avoid overlap quite as much. I think focusing, again, on *specifics* (like the arts in option 1) will help, because the options in 1014 are more looking at the general, societal situation.

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Postby Umbratellus » Mon Aug 19, 2024 10:15 am

Verdant Haven wrote:This is well written, but as you speculate in your intro, it basically just is Issue 1014 again. "Execute Religious People" is 1014.1 and "Focus on teaching science and reason" is 1014.2. What's more, the actual description basically is the same – "You're atheist, but people still practice religion."

I think there is room for this, and the French Revolution angle on addressing rationality is absolutely a good way to do so, but I would try to find a more specific event or trigger than just "religion still exists." That may help then guide the nature of the options presented, so that they perhaps avoid overlap quite as much. I think focusing, again, on *specifics* (like the arts in option 1) will help, because the options in 1014 are more looking at the general, societal situation.


Thanks for the valuable feedback here, it's appreciated! So, my intention with the second option there was not to focus on "teaching science and reason," so much as to focus on removing religion from science (and education more broadly). Do you have any suggestions on how I might convey that a little better? It's possible I'll undergo more radical revisions for some of the options here, but a few pointers to get my thoughts meandering in the right direction are always welcome.

I'll try to see if I can think of a good "trigger" for the events of the issue—probably something more-or-less inspired by the events that kicked off the Reign of Terror. Maybe a small uprising - similar to but obviously not quite in the same scale as the Vendée (incidentally, I saw Thomas Hovenden's Breton Soldier on vacation earlier this year) - would be an appropriate flashpoint, and set the tone for the violent atmosphere even better. I know there's any issue about religious figures protesting secular government restrictions (the monk in yellow burning himself alive one), but to my knowledge there aren't any that begin with a violent uprising against the government by religious holdouts. Do you think that might be a direction worth pursuing here (might necessitate a validity check against having very high pacifism)? Could also leave room for a 5th option to change course as was previously suggested in the thread, though I'm not sure if that might be getting a bit too long for the issue.
Last edited by Umbratellus on Mon Aug 19, 2024 10:32 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Postby Varnash » Mon Aug 19, 2024 10:47 am

Umbratellus wrote:
Varnash wrote:maybe consider changing “a swingin’” to “a-swingin’”

Why is that? I'm reviewing my rules for hyphenation right now and I'm not seeing anything that would suggest it's a "more proper" form—thought it is certainly possible I'm just overlooking something or else misremembering it here.


the hyphen connects the a to the word, showing that the a is not another word but actually a prefix used to create a more musical tone
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Postby Umbratellus » Mon Aug 19, 2024 10:49 am

Varnash wrote:the hyphen connects the a to the word, showing that the a is not another word but actually a prefix used to create a more musical tone

Fair enough! If the outcome survives my pending major revisions, I will update it to reflect that.

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Postby Verdant Haven » Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:02 am

If you want violence, perhaps an attack à la Henri IV, who was killed by a zealot convinced that the king was planning an outright war against their religious leader, which can lead to questions about how this zealot was radicalized in a supposedly secular nation. One could even frame some options a bit like the outcomes of the Machine infernale plot against Napoleon, in response to which he deliberately ignored the evidence his police chief gave against the actual conspirators, in order to persecute and execute people that better fit his public narrative.

I'm not sure the violence is actually necessary though (1014 being as violent as it is, that may continue to lead towards similar outcomes). It could be less a matter of a flashpoint and more of just an inciting incident. Something like Leader's young niece or nephew asking their parent, Leader's sibling, questions about a religious topic might lead to a crusade to find the source of their curiosity, which could end up with similar blame placed on the arts, the calendar, the existence of formerly religious buildings, etc. "Corrupting the youth" has long been a cry of religious conservatives against unorthodox believers - one could drive home the irony here by using it by non-believers worried about faith.

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Postby Umbratellus » Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:08 am

Verdant Haven wrote:If you want violence, perhaps an attack à la Henri IV, who was killed by a zealot convinced that the king was planning an outright war against their religious leader, which can lead to questions about how this zealot was radicalized in a supposedly secular nation. One could even frame some options a bit like the outcomes of the Machine infernale plot against Napoleon, in response to which he deliberately ignored the evidence his police chief gave against the actual conspirators, in order to persecute and execute people that better fit his public narrative.


I'm not super familiar with either of those situations, I'll definitely have some homework here to study up on! Image

I'm not sure the violence is actually necessary though (1014 being as violent as it is, that may continue to lead towards similar outcomes). It could be less a matter of a flashpoint and more of just an inciting incident. Something like Leader's young niece or nephew asking their parent, Leader's sibling, questions about a religious topic might lead to a crusade to find the source of their curiosity, which could end up with similar blame placed on the arts, the calendar, the existence of formerly religious buildings, etc. "Corrupting the youth" has long been a cry of religious conservatives against unorthodox believers - one could drive home the irony here by using it by non-believers worried about faith.

Oh yeah, I really like that idea; thanks for the suggestion! I will try having a thoroughly updated draft out sometime this week. I think I've already got some ideas on how to weave together a more cohesive narrative structure, too. Violence is always an easy turn, but this definitely presents a more nuanced direction for the issue. Something as simple as a young niece asking, "Does God love me?" could work really well here I think; the framing of the question entails a certain (childlike) belief in the existence of the supernatural that could reasonably lead people to asking who put that notion in her head.
Last edited by Umbratellus on Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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