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[DRAFT] The People's Estate

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Sensorland
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

[DRAFT] The People's Estate

Postby Sensorland » Mon Aug 05, 2024 11:32 pm

This one's pretty self-explanatory, I think. It's an issue about socialism and feudalism (yes, these are compatible policies). I tried to think about the realistic dilemmas that might be faced by such a nation, and this is what I came up with. The first two options both preserve the nobility, because I figure that if a socialist nation hasn't already abolished feudalism, there's probably a unique political situation going on there.

Current Draft
Title: The People’s Estate
Validity: Has socialism and feudalism

The issue: Engineers from the Central Planning Bureau have drawn up a proposal for the construction of a brand new state-of-the-art industrial district in an underdeveloped province of @@NAME@@. The project would create numerous jobs and has the potential to revitalize the area. However, it would require the seizure of the historic estate of the Maxbridge noble family.

Option 1
“Must we nobles be forced to suffer yet another indignity at the hands of the unwashed masses?” laments Lord Maxbridge, who carefully sips his tea and dabs his face with a handkerchief before continuing. “Should this odious project go ahead, my family’s great legacy will be destroyed, and the social order that has sustained our nation will finally be toppled. This land is my home, and it belongs under my family’s stewardship. Taking it away would be tantamount to stripping us of our titles. This must not be allowed to go ahead, and the rights of noble families to protect their estates—along with their honor—should be enshrined in law.”
Effect: all @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ are equal but some are more equal than others

Option 2
“With all due respect to His Lordship, this project is more important than preserving some stuffy manor,” protests Planning Bureau officer @@RANDOMNAME@@, taking a messy bite of a sandwich and talking with @@HIS@@ mouth full. “We’re certainly not after anyone’s titles. This land can be used to provide a much-needed boost to the local economy and to @@NAME@@’s production capacity. Nobles need to understand that it’s not the past anymore, and that they won’t be allowed to hoard valuable land away from the working class. I’m sure that the Maxbridges will settle into their cozy new government housing in no time!”
Effect: nobles can often be found wistfully reminiscing about the good old days

Option 3
“Maybe we should be after Lord Maxbridge’s titles,” argues upstart Party member Leon Maximilien Cromwell, fiddling with a bread-slicing contraption with a falling blade. “The nobility is the enemy of the people’s government! As long as the aristocracy is officially recognized, they will stand in the way of progress. The people have entrusted @@LEADER@@ to govern @@NAME@@, not these fatcats! Strip them of their land, their titles, their riches, and any remaining power they might have. And if any of them resist… off with their heads!”
Effect: there’s no room for patricians in the dictatorship of the proletariat


Previous Drafts
Title: The People’s Estate
Validity: Has socialism and feudalism

The issue: Engineers from the Central Planning Bureau have drawn up a proposal for the construction of a brand new state-of-the-art industrial district in an underdeveloped province of @@NAME@@. The project would create numerous jobs and has the potential to revitalize the area. However, it would require the seizure of the historic estate of the Maxbridge noble family.

Option 1
“Must we nobles be forced to suffer yet another indignity at the hands of the unwashed masses?” laments Lord Maxbridge. “Should this odious project go ahead, my family’s great legacy will be destroyed, and the social order that has sustained our nation will finally be toppled. It would be tantamount to stripping us nobles of our titles. This must not be allowed to go ahead, and the rights of noble families to protect their estates—along with their honor—should be enshrined in law.”
Effect: all @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ are equal but some are more equal than others

Option 2
“This is ridiculous,” protests Planning Bureau officer @@RANDOMNAME@@. “This project would be a huge benefit for the local workers and for the economy of @@NAME@@. We’re only after Lord Maxbridge’s land, not his titles or his head. Nobles need to understand that it’s not the past anymore, and that they have no right to hoard valuable land that can be put to good use for the working class. I’m sure that the Maxbridges will settle into their cozy new government housing in no time!”
Effect: nobles can often be found wistfully reminiscing about the good old days

Option 3
“I’m sorry, why do we still have nobles again?” asks upstart Party member Leon Maximilien Cromwell. “The people’s revolution will be incomplete until the injustice of feudalism is done away with entirely! The people have entrusted @@LEADER@@ to govern @@NAME@@, not Lord Maxbridge or any other aristocrat. Strip them of their land, their titles, their riches, and any remaining power they might have. And if any of them resist… off with their heads!”
Effect: there’s no room for patricians in the dictatorship of the proletariat

Title: The People’s Estate
Validity: Has socialism and feudalism

The issue: Engineers from the Bureau of Central Planning have drawn up plans for the construction of a state-of-the-art industrial district in an underdeveloped province of @@NAME@@. The project would create numerous jobs and has the potential to revitalize the area. However, it would require the seizure of the historic estate of the Maxbridge noble family.

Option 1
“Must we nobles be forced to suffer yet another indignity at the hands of the unwashed masses?” laments Lord Maxbridge. “Should this odious project go ahead, my family’s great legacy will be destroyed, and the social order that has sustained our nation will finally be toppled. It would be tantamount to stripping us nobles of our titles. This must not be allowed to go ahead, and the rights of noble families to protect their estates—along with their honor—should be enshrined in law.”
Effect: all @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ are equal but some are more equal than others

Option 2
“This is ridiculous,” protests Planning Bureau officer @@RANDOMNAME@@. “This project would immensely benefit the proletariat of @@NAME@@. We’re only after Lord Maxbridge’s land, not his titles or his head. Nobles need to understand that it’s not the past anymore, and that they have no right to hoard valuable land that can be put to good use for the working class. We can move the Maxbridges into some of our fine new government housing!”
Effect: nobles can often be found wistfully reminiscing about the good old days

Option 3
“I’m sorry, why do we still have nobles again?” asks upstart Party member Leon Maximilien Cromwell. “The people’s revolution will be incomplete until the injustice of feudalism is done away with entirely! The people have entrusted @@LEADER@@ to govern @@NAME@@, not Lord Maxbridge or any other aristocrat. Strip them of their land, their titles, their riches, and any remaining power they might have. And if any of them resist, we’ll show them the power of the proletariat.”
Effect: there’s no room for patricians in the dictatorship of the proletariat
Last edited by Sensorland on Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:07 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Tue Aug 06, 2024 4:43 am

Sensorland wrote:It's an issue about socialism and feudalism (yes, these are compatible policies).
It's worth looking at how the game defines them, instead of what they mean in normal English.

"Feudalism" is taken to specifically mean serfdom, i.e., nobles own the land and serfs do whatever work the nobles whose land they live on tell them to.

"Socialism" is taken to mean centrally-planned economies, i.e., the government controls the economy and workers do whatever work the central planning committee tells them to.

Notice a similarity?

Sensorland wrote:However, it would require the seizure of the historic estate of the Maxbridge noble family.
Why is this one estate so important? Is there really no free land anywhere that you could build new stuff without tearing down one of the the most important historic sites in the nation, and even if there isn't, isn't there someone else you could steal from instead?

In fact, you said the province was underdeveloped. That sounds like it would imply lots of unused land.

Sensorland wrote:all @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ are equal, but some are more equal than others
Effect lines should rarely include commas, and especially not when it would divide them into two nearly-complete sentences like this. Remember how they look on the nation page.

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Sensorland
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Postby Sensorland » Tue Aug 06, 2024 10:10 am

Trotterdam wrote:It's worth looking at how the game defines them, instead of what they mean in normal English.

"Feudalism" is taken to specifically mean serfdom, i.e., nobles own the land and serfs do whatever work the nobles whose land they live on tell them to.

"Socialism" is taken to mean centrally-planned economies, i.e., the government controls the economy and workers do whatever work the central planning committee tells them to.

Notice a similarity?

Yes, although I'd argue you're putting too much weight on the policy descriptions over the established catalog of issues dealing with these policies. "Socialism" is assumed to come with certain ideological commitments favoring communism, and so it's fair to say there's a tension there. But even discarding that, notice that there's also a tension between the definitions you provided: what if the central planning committee and the feudal nobles have different priorities? It's not like conflict between the central authority and local nobility is a foreign concept when it comes to feudalism; this just happens to be in the context of a state-planned economy instead of a struggle between a monarch and the nobility.

Trotterdam wrote:Why is this one estate so important? Is there really no free land anywhere that you could build new stuff without tearing down one of the the most important historic sites in the nation, and even if there isn't, isn't there someone else you could steal from instead?

Nope, there isn't. Frankly I don't even feel like it's necessary to have an explanation for this; it wouldn't be anywhere near the least believable thing asserted in an issue description. Also, the Maxbridge estate may not even really be "one of the most historic sites in the nation", and technically the issue doesn't specify that it needs to be torn down. Maybe the building is just being repurposed.


Trotterdam wrote:Effect lines should rarely include commas, and especially not when it would divide them into two nearly-complete sentences like this. Remember how they look on the nation page.

Yep, you're right. That's an easy fix, though.
Sensorland of the West Pacific
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Author of issue #1325
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SherpDaWerp wrote:I'd say Sensorland is correct - a particularly enterprising 7-year-old may return from the wilderness and go straight to work in the coal mines.

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Sensorland
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Postby Sensorland » Fri Aug 09, 2024 2:37 pm

/bump
Sensorland of the West Pacific
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SherpDaWerp wrote:I'd say Sensorland is correct - a particularly enterprising 7-year-old may return from the wilderness and go straight to work in the coal mines.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:28 am

Option 2- We're only after the lord's land- yea, well, exactly. The land means more than meaningless titles. Also, wouldn't these serfs also want their freedom in addition to the land?
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sensorland
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Postby Sensorland » Sat Aug 10, 2024 12:05 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:Option 2- We're only after the lord's land- yea, well, exactly. The land means more than meaningless titles. Also, wouldn't these serfs also want their freedom in addition to the land?

Not really sure what your first point is getting at. Anyway, assuming that there remain serfs in this bizarre socialist-feudalist society (and I'm not entirely sure that's a fair assumption about every nation answering this issue any more than it'd be fair to assume a monarchy is an absolute monarchy), presumably they'd be either liberated or pressed into state service in the new industrial district.
Sensorland of the West Pacific
AKA Sensoria (The Outback), Sensorian Isles (Warzone Trinidad)
NS is a fun game. Don't take it too seriously.
Author of issue #1325
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SherpDaWerp wrote:I'd say Sensorland is correct - a particularly enterprising 7-year-old may return from the wilderness and go straight to work in the coal mines.

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Sensorland
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Postby Sensorland » Wed Aug 14, 2024 7:37 pm

New draft. Mostly wording changes.
Sensorland of the West Pacific
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NS is a fun game. Don't take it too seriously.
Author of issue #1325
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SherpDaWerp wrote:I'd say Sensorland is correct - a particularly enterprising 7-year-old may return from the wilderness and go straight to work in the coal mines.

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Sanctified Hellas
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Postby Sanctified Hellas » Tue Aug 20, 2024 5:34 am

I like this issue very much, even if I probably won't ever see it!
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Lelscrep
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Postby Lelscrep » Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:42 pm

A reasonable, easy to follow issue for niche nations is always nice. :)

As option three implies, though it's possible, a feudal-socialist nation seems like a situation that needs to give one way eventually; I'm surprised there's no noble whispering in @@LEADER@@'s ear to just "be rid of this silly socialist notion". If that's the implication of option one it may need to be spelled out more, because (aside from Maxbridge's opening remark) it reads to me like protection of their land from above (@@LEADER@@), not from the masses, who under feudalism would already not have the right to purchase land without a noble's permission.
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Sensorland
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Postby Sensorland » Fri Aug 23, 2024 11:24 am

Lelscrep wrote:A reasonable, easy to follow issue for niche nations is always nice. :)
Thank you!

Lelscrep wrote:As option three implies, though it's possible, a feudal-socialist nation seems like a situation that needs to give one way eventually; I'm surprised there's no noble whispering in @@LEADER@@'s ear to just "be rid of this silly socialist notion".

This was a deliberate choice on my end. I picture the feudal-socialist society as one with an uneasy balance of power, where the nobles have few bargaining chips and are desperately trying to hold on to what clout they still have. I'd be open to adding an additional noble voice who's a bit more scheming or ambitious, but I think Maxbridge serves his current role well, and I don't think an option to abolish socialism is necessary for this issue.

Lelscrep wrote:If that's the implication of option one it may need to be spelled out more, because (aside from Maxbridge's opening remark) it reads to me like protection of their land from above (@@LEADER@@), not from the masses, who under feudalism would already not have the right to purchase land without a noble's permission.

Well, some might say that Leader is the masses. Dictatorship of the proletariat and all that jazz. But yes, the idea is that it would be giving noble estates protection from government seizure of their land.
Sensorland of the West Pacific
AKA Sensoria (The Outback), Sensorian Isles (Warzone Trinidad)
NS is a fun game. Don't take it too seriously.
Author of issue #1325
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SherpDaWerp wrote:I'd say Sensorland is correct - a particularly enterprising 7-year-old may return from the wilderness and go straight to work in the coal mines.

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Sensorland
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Postby Sensorland » Tue Dec 31, 2024 5:00 pm

/bump
Sensorland of the West Pacific
AKA Sensoria (The Outback), Sensorian Isles (Warzone Trinidad)
NS is a fun game. Don't take it too seriously.
Author of issue #1325
Social liberal, progressive, atheist, vegan
SherpDaWerp wrote:I'd say Sensorland is correct - a particularly enterprising 7-year-old may return from the wilderness and go straight to work in the coal mines.

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Arctic Lands
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Postby Arctic Lands » Tue Dec 31, 2024 5:08 pm

Even when it comes to purely policy descriptions, they contradict each other. Feudalism implies private property on each piece of land given to a noble, while Socialism removes that. How can there be nobles with privately owned pieces of land when use of said land is in the hands of "the central planning commitee", which, unlike nobles, is elected, or, at least, not a hereditary position? So, there are no similarities between those, and I believe the game misunderstands feudalism, slavery, capitalism and socialism (they should all be in "Economy" and incompatible with each other).

In existing conditions, this issue fills a very niche empty slot, which is a great thing.
Last edited by Arctic Lands on Tue Dec 31, 2024 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sensorland
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Postby Sensorland » Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:07 pm

New draft. Mostly just wording/flow.
Sensorland of the West Pacific
AKA Sensoria (The Outback), Sensorian Isles (Warzone Trinidad)
NS is a fun game. Don't take it too seriously.
Author of issue #1325
Social liberal, progressive, atheist, vegan
SherpDaWerp wrote:I'd say Sensorland is correct - a particularly enterprising 7-year-old may return from the wilderness and go straight to work in the coal mines.


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