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Why is authority automatically considered "right-wing"?

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The Wyrese Empire
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Why is authority automatically considered "right-wing"?

Postby The Wyrese Empire » Sun May 26, 2024 4:17 pm

Why is France's Marine Le Pen, the former US President Donald Trump, and other "far right" leaders of countries called outright fascist? In France's case, Marine Le Pen and the rest of the party she is part of get painted as "far right" even though Le Pen and similar people in Europe are still well to the left economically of the US in terms of still supporting state welfare programs and a few other stuff. I get the vibe that she and maybe others are automatically tarred as this because of social views, especially those on immigration and borders.

Let me contrast this with the left. You had genuinely communist/socialist countries like the former USSR and several Asian countries where the leaders ruled with an iron fist and the power of total authority including a few so-called "conservative" social attitudes on subjects like gays, but they are not explicitly called fascist or authoritarian and in fact modern-day socialists and communists appeal to freedom and human rights.

I don't want to troll anyone for whatever beliefs they have on here, my genuine question is in the title.

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Love Peace and Friendship
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Postby Love Peace and Friendship » Sun May 26, 2024 4:20 pm

The Wyrese Empire wrote:Why is France's Marine Le Pen, the former US President Donald Trump, and other "far right" leaders of countries called outright fascist? In France's case, Marine Le Pen and the rest of the party she is part of get painted as "far right" even though Le Pen and similar people in Europe are still well to the left economically of the US in terms of still supporting state welfare programs and a few other stuff. I get the vibe that she and maybe others are automatically tarred as this because of social views, especially those on immigration and borders.

Let me contrast this with the left. You had genuinely communist/socialist countries like the former USSR and several Asian countries where the leaders ruled with an iron fist and the power of total authority including a few so-called "conservative" social attitudes on subjects like gays, but they are not explicitly called fascist or authoritarian and in fact modern-day socialists and communists appeal to freedom and human rights.

I don't want to troll anyone for whatever beliefs they have on here, my genuine question is in the title.

Marie Le Pen may be specifically considered fascist because her party was founded by her more right-wing father, who founded it with individuals associated with France's far right, including former Vichy officials. Only recently has National Rally slowly moderated into Right-Wing populism rather than its more radical roots.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun May 26, 2024 4:21 pm

The Wyrese Empire wrote:Why is France's Marine Le Pen, the former US President Donald Trump, and other "far right" leaders of countries called outright fascist? In France's case, Marine Le Pen and the rest of the party she is part of get painted as "far right" even though Le Pen and similar people in Europe are still well to the left economically of the US in terms of still supporting state welfare programs and a few other stuff. I get the vibe that she and maybe others are automatically tarred as this because of social views, especially those on immigration and borders.

You've answered your own question, chief. People say that they're far right because of their far right beliefs.
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The Wyrese Empire
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Postby The Wyrese Empire » Sun May 26, 2024 5:18 pm

Ifreann wrote:
The Wyrese Empire wrote:Why is France's Marine Le Pen, the former US President Donald Trump, and other "far right" leaders of countries called outright fascist? In France's case, Marine Le Pen and the rest of the party she is part of get painted as "far right" even though Le Pen and similar people in Europe are still well to the left economically of the US in terms of still supporting state welfare programs and a few other stuff. I get the vibe that she and maybe others are automatically tarred as this because of social views, especially those on immigration and borders.

You've answered your own question, chief. People say that they're far right because of their far right beliefs.


I meant social views in this context. My point is that someone who has a "traditionalist" or "conservative" opinion on immigration, culture, borders, or other social issues but are otherwise more left on other issues are automatically considered right or far-right. A lot of issues the US democrats talk about now were not even conceivable 20 years ago to them, never mind the Republicans, and things like an immigration system that had some control (rather than unfettered or unrestricted) were just considered to be moderate.

What's with nicknaming people "chief"? Is that a kind of newer zoomer slang?

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Neu California
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Postby Neu California » Sun May 26, 2024 5:32 pm

The Wyrese Empire wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You've answered your own question, chief. People say that they're far right because of their far right beliefs.


I meant social views in this context. My point is that someone who has a "traditionalist" or "conservative" opinion on immigration, culture, borders, or other social issues but are otherwise more left on other issues are automatically considered right or far-right. A lot of issues the US democrats talk about now were not even conceivable 20 years ago to them, never mind the Republicans, and things like an immigration system that had some control (rather than unfettered or unrestricted) were just considered to be moderate.

What's with nicknaming people "chief"? Is that a kind of newer zoomer slang?

I've heard people call other chief in that context in cartoons I watched when I was kid in the 90s. Cartoons from the 70s, I might add.

As to the rest. It depends on both how many right-wing views they hold and how loud they are about their right-wing views vs their left-wing views. So, someone who's not particularly loud about their left-wing economic views but rants on and on about how LGBT people are destroying society is going to come off as right-wing, for example.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun May 26, 2024 7:07 pm

The Wyrese Empire wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You've answered your own question, chief. People say that they're far right because of their far right beliefs.


I meant social views in this context. My point is that someone who has a "traditionalist" or "conservative" opinion on immigration, culture, borders, or other social issues but are otherwise more left on other issues are automatically considered right or far-right. A lot of issues the US democrats talk about now were not even conceivable 20 years ago to them, never mind the Republicans, and things like an immigration system that had some control (rather than unfettered or unrestricted) were just considered to be moderate.

You are just reiterating that when people hold right wing beliefs they are considered right wing. Your confusion seems to arise from the fact that European right wingers support some policies that would be considered far left in America. There's a couple reasons for this. Obviously these are just different political contexts. Social welfare has a long history in modern Europe. Otto von Bismark was doing Bismarkcare a hundred and forty years ago.

There's also a problem with simplifying the views of the likes of Le Pen to just "supports social welfare". They will tend to support social welfare for, say, married couples with one income, but not for single recent immigrants. And they won't always be so blatant about their policies as that. European right wingers are willing to use social welfare to get the society they want.

And further, there's the matter of extreme polarisation in American politics. In America, when a Democrat points out that livestock farming has a very significant impact on the environment, Republicans start screaming about how AOC is going to literally execute you for eating a burger unless Donald Trump sends her back to Mexico. Joe Biden gets vilified as a far-left madman when he has been on the right wing of the Democratic Party for his whole career.

What's with nicknaming people "chief"? Is that a kind of newer zoomer slang?

I have no idea.
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Turenia
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Postby Turenia » Sun May 26, 2024 9:20 pm

Because most authoritarian regimes in the west are on the centre-right.

They’re also often considered fascists, but that’s mainly by people who want to feel like part of The Resistance.
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