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[On Hold] Liberate Fifth Empire

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Grishahakkaverchynot
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[On Hold] Liberate Fifth Empire

Postby Grishahakkaverchynot » Wed May 01, 2024 1:30 pm

I've thought that this pre-emptive liberation may be an interesting idea for a bit, so I'm going to draft it here. Feel free to leave feedback. THis proposal will not likely be submitted until proper circumstances come to light.
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Liberate Fifth Empire

The Security Council,

Observing that Fifth Empire spreads and promotes fascism rather blatantly and is one of the largest regions doing so,

Noting that SC #358 makes the stance of this council on fascism clear,

Appalled that the region and its officials have been allowed to promote fascism and harmful behaviors for over twelve years, in the face of some of its allied Nazi regions being destroyed,

Noticing that several resolutions passed in this council have made a precedent to liberate regions pushing fascism for invasion, including a Nazi region successor, Lux Immortalem, liberated in SC #496, and accepting that they are not in danger as of the moment of the resolution, which SC #245 has done by punitively liberating KAISERREICH,

Realizing that this region has already experienced the disappearance of several officials for crimes beyond our comprehension, and this may continue until there are no more successors,

Deciding that this resolution is necessary, for the region to be assured true destruction by the anti-fascist forces the moment their last governor has met their fate,

Hereby liberates Fifth Empire.
Last edited by Grishahakkaverchynot on Wed May 22, 2024 5:17 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Rusticus Damianus
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Postby Rusticus Damianus » Wed May 01, 2024 1:32 pm

Full support.

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Postby New Westmore » Wed May 01, 2024 1:36 pm

Full support. Fascists do not get a voice here.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed May 01, 2024 2:03 pm

No-brainer support here.
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Eshtrushe
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Postby Eshtrushe » Wed May 01, 2024 2:11 pm

Support the concept, but I can think of ways it can be improved.

First of all-would mentioning the WA officially condemns Fascism be superfluous, considering you referenced a resolution which mentioned that itself?

Also, you should not include this:
Realizing that this forces the region to permanently maintain a governor nation, lest it be destroyed,


Instead, you should mention the region's history of having governors DEAT'd and point out that that may happen again, even to the point that there is no successor, thus allowing anti-fascists to seize the region and put an end to the largest fascist region on NationStates. Do emphasis how it is the largest and most powerful/influential, doing more to help spread fascism than any other region.
Last edited by Eshtrushe on Fri Apr 12, 2024 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Nu Elysium » Wed May 01, 2024 2:15 pm

Full support.
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Improper Classifications
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Postby Improper Classifications » Wed May 01, 2024 2:50 pm

It's not bad. You could certainly improve it - get a little deep into the history behind it - but sure.
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Tesseris
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Postby Tesseris » Wed May 01, 2024 2:53 pm

I kind of support this but I don't want to give commies something to celebrate over. As much as Fascism is detestable, allowing the potential destruction of Fifth Empire would bring a surge of leftist sentiment to NS that I do not wish to see.
Last edited by Tesseris on Wed May 01, 2024 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Eshtrushe
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Postby Eshtrushe » Wed May 01, 2024 3:20 pm

Tesseris wrote:I kind of support this but I don't want to give commies something to celebrate over. As much as Fascism is detestable, allowing the potential destruction of Fifth Empire would bring a surge of leftist sentiment to NS that I do not wish to see.

That is a fair concern, but we can have our cake and eat it too here: if you are concerned about that, try to build up anti-Communist sentiment yourself.
Last edited by Eshtrushe on Fri Apr 12, 2024 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grishahakkaverchynot
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Postby Grishahakkaverchynot » Wed May 01, 2024 3:24 pm

Eshtrushe wrote:Support the concept, but I can think of ways it can be improved.

First of all-would mentioning the WA officially condemns Fascism be superfluous, considering you referenced a resolution which mentioned that itself?

Also, you should not include this:
Realizing that this forces the region to permanently maintain a governor nation, lest it be destroyed,


Instead, you should mention the region's history of having governors DEAT'd and point out that that may happen again, even to the point that there is no successor, thus allowing anti-fascists to seize the region and put an end to the largest fascist region on NationStates. Do emphasis how it is the largest and most powerful/influential, doing more to help spread fascism than any other region.

Did stuff about the governors getting deleted part. After Triskelions got deleted, I took a look at their rmb, some of them seem to think the site mods want to kill the region.// About the WA condemning fascism... I know there are resolutions other than SC #496 that mentioned anti-fascism, I will certainly change some things there.
Improper Classifications wrote:It's not bad. You could certainly improve it - get a little deep into the history behind it - but sure.

Including more info.... I may have to get to that.
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Improper Classifications
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Postby Improper Classifications » Wed May 01, 2024 3:35 pm

Grishahakkaverchynot wrote:Did stuff about the governors getting deleted part. After Triskelions got deleted, I took a look at their rmb, some of them seem to think the site mods want to kill the region.// About the WA condemning fascism... I know there are resolutions other than SC #496 that mentioned anti-fascism, I will certainly change some things there.
Improper Classifications wrote:It's not bad. You could certainly improve it - get a little deep into the history behind it - but sure.

Including more info.... I may have to get to that.

Remember every anti-fascist resolution has to mention Advancement of Anti-Fascist Action (SC#358) :p

I would word it something like,
Noting the Empire's long history, lasting almost as long as its own, of government officials swept into the dustbin by the powers that be for crimes beyond our comprehension, creating a uniquely fragile situation,

Believing this Resolution is necessary to swiftly seize the region under the control of anti-fascist forces the moment that the last Emperor is prophetically annihilated,
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Daphomir
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Postby Daphomir » Wed May 01, 2024 3:38 pm

Daphomir will not just sit around and watch as regions fall to the fascist plague. Therefore, this draft receives my full support.
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Grishahakkaverchynot
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Postby Grishahakkaverchynot » Wed May 01, 2024 3:44 pm

Improper Classifications wrote:
Grishahakkaverchynot wrote:Did stuff about the governors getting deleted part. After Triskelions got deleted, I took a look at their rmb, some of them seem to think the site mods want to kill the region.// About the WA condemning fascism... I know there are resolutions other than SC #496 that mentioned anti-fascism, I will certainly change some things there.

Including more info.... I may have to get to that.

Remember every anti-fascist resolution has to mention Advancement of Anti-Fascist Action (SC#358) :p

I would word it something like,
Noting the Empire's long history, lasting almost as long as its own, of government officials swept into the dustbin by the powers that be for crimes beyond our comprehension, creating a uniquely fragile situation,

Believing this Resolution is necessary to swiftly seize the region under the control of anti-fascist forces the moment that the last Emperor is prophetically annihilated,

Ah, SC #358. I'll make sure to reference that. I've worded what you've mentioned a little differently, but it should be somewhat good. I might have to credit you.
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Saint Tomas and the Northern Ice Islands
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Postby Saint Tomas and the Northern Ice Islands » Wed May 01, 2024 3:58 pm

Genius idea, let's go liberate a region with a governor and 4 successors who have all logged in within the last two days. That ought to stop pesky fascism!
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Grishahakkaverchynot
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Postby Grishahakkaverchynot » Wed May 01, 2024 4:08 pm

Saint Tomas and the Northern Ice Islands wrote:Genius idea, let's go liberate a region with a governor and 4 successors who have all logged in within the last two days. That ought to stop pesky fascism!

It's a pre-emptive liberation, as in I don't believe they are at risk of being invaded in the near future. But this liberation won't likely go away. The fascists on the other hand.... After Triskelions met their demise at the hands of the mods, there seemed to be some posts calling him a martyr, and that maybe some of them are next. So their governor may seem to think that they need a successor a little more critically due to this draft, and then they may inadvertently make someone's spy nation a successor, and then... stuff hits the fan for them after that
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Siluvia
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Postby Siluvia » Wed May 01, 2024 4:08 pm

“The Free-Market Confederacy of Siluvia most strongly opposes this proposal. Not only do we consider it a violation of regional sovereignty, but a violation of the principle of self-governance. We call on all delegates and members of this council to join us in opposition; after all, it could be your region that is next to be ‘liberated’.”
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Grishahakkaverchynot
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Postby Grishahakkaverchynot » Wed May 01, 2024 4:13 pm

Siluvia wrote:“The Free-Market Confederacy of Siluvia most strongly opposes this proposal. Not only do we consider it a violation of regional sovereignty, but a violation of the principle of self-governance. We call on all delegates and members of this council to join us in opposition; after all, it could be your region that is next to be ‘liberated’.”

Most other WA delegates don't like fascism, so their regions aren't going to be as targeted. FE.... proclaims itself on the banner as "The Super-Fascists". There may need to be some lines set down, but FE is probably well beyond any reasonable line one may draw.
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United Bongo States of the New America
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Postby United Bongo States of the New America » Wed May 01, 2024 4:20 pm

Siluvia wrote:“The Free-Market Confederacy of Siluvia most strongly opposes this proposal. Not only do we consider it a violation of regional sovereignty, but a violation of the principle of self-governance. We call on all delegates and members of this council to join us in opposition; after all, it could be your region that is next to be ‘liberated’.”

This isn't about regional sovereignty anymore. This region propagated misconduct in NationStates for too long, and liberation serves as an instance that fascism, like discrimination and racism, must be opposed, and frankly, I cannot comprehend how hideous it is that the fascists are de-humazing ethnicities .

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Postby ARIsyan- » Wed May 01, 2024 4:37 pm

Full support
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Postby Sauros » Wed May 01, 2024 4:41 pm

Hope this passes.
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The Ice States
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Postby The Ice States » Wed May 01, 2024 4:43 pm

While I do think the site would be better off getting rid of fascist regions such as Fifth Empire, would an SC Liberation really achieve anything? The region's governor appears fairly active and unlikely to cease to exist; further, there are multiple successors.
Last edited by The Ice States on Wed May 01, 2024 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Grishahakkaverchynot » Wed May 01, 2024 4:54 pm

The Ice States wrote:While I do think the site would be better off getting rid of fascist regions such as Fifth Empire, would an SC Liberation really achieve anything? The region's governor appears fairly active and unlikely to cease to exist; further, there are multiple successors.

This is meant to also provide a "shape up or ship out" message to them. They can either "shape up" (maybe tone down the messages in support of discriminating against others) or "ship out" (a governor might get deated, and there either was no successor, or that successor was a spy).
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Postby ARIsyan- » Wed May 01, 2024 4:54 pm

The Ice States wrote:While I do think the site would be better off getting rid of fascist regions such as Fifth Empire, would an SC Liberation really achieve anything? The region's governor appears fairly active and unlikely to cease to exist; further, there are multiple successors.

Reminder that the region's governors consistently get DEATd
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The Ice States
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Postby The Ice States » Wed May 01, 2024 4:59 pm

Grishahakkaverchynot wrote:
The Ice States wrote:While I do think the site would be better off getting rid of fascist regions such as Fifth Empire, would an SC Liberation really achieve anything? The region's governor appears fairly active and unlikely to cease to exist; further, there are multiple successors.

This is meant to also provide a "shape up or ship out" message to them. They can either "shape up" (maybe tone down the messages in support of discriminating against others) or "ship out" (a governor might get deated, and there either was no successor, or that successor was a spy).

ARIsyan- wrote:Reminder that the region's governors consistently get DEATd

I highly doubt that this will reach the stage of "no successor"; it seems unlikely that all four Successors, as well as the current Governor, will be deleted, and none of them will themselves appoint a Successor. I don't think this resolution would have much effect if there is a spy Governor; firstly, the spy Governor can just lift a password, secondly I seem to remember that Liberations mechanically have no effect if there is an active Governor.

That said, passing this probably would not cause active harm either.
Last edited by The Ice States on Wed May 01, 2024 5:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Astrobolt
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Postby Astrobolt » Wed May 01, 2024 5:00 pm

Hard against. This accomplishes nothing beyond giving them attention. Due to the fact there are numerous successors, a liberation would likely be useless. We can revisit this if the situation changes.
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