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Which economic ideology is the best?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Which economic ideology is the best?

Economic liberalism
35
22%
A mix of economic liberalism and nationalism
15
10%
Economic nationalism
9
6%
A mix of economic nationalism and socialism
12
8%
Economic socialism
35
22%
A mix of economic socialism and liberalism
33
21%
A mix of all three
18
11%
 
Total votes : 157

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Port Carverton
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Which economic ideology is the best?

Postby Port Carverton » Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:21 pm

Economics is a complicated subject. People can't agree on the role of government in the economy. Nevertheless, something has to be choosed to run the country. In general, there are three main economic ideologies. These are economic liberalism, economic nationalism and economic socialism.

Economic liberalism is the idea that government should stay out of the economy, so it supports privatization of state-owned enterprises, deregulation of economic sectors and free trade. It is the current consensus in the world despite both left-wing (economic socialism) and right-wing (economic nationalism) opposition to it. A good example of economic liberalism was the presidency of Ronald Reagan, the premiership of Margaret "Iron Lady" Thatcher and the opening of the Chinese economy under Deng Xiaoping.

Economic nationalism is kind of a middle of the road between liberalism and socialism. Although it promotes state intervention in the economy to protect national industry, it still allows private actors to invest, run and create businesses. The main goal of economic nationalism is to align the economy with the foreign policy of the country. This is done through tariffs and subsidies to local businesses with the purpose of making it strong to help the country be self-sufficient. An example of this could be the current Chinese economy, or the economic policy of fascist regimes.

Economic socialism is the belief that the economy should serve the common good, whether it is controlled by the government, workers or society in general. Socialism has an emphasis on equality, so goods are distributed equally to serve everyone's needs. Production is also for use instead of profit. An example of a socialist economy is the current rebels in Chiapas, who operate under libertarian (as in very limited government) socialism. Another example of this was the USSR, although this one was authoritarian instead.

It is important to note that no country follows a certain ideology completely. All countries follow a mix of all three, for example Canada who despite being very business friendly overall maintains goverment control over healthcare and imposes many tariffs on foreign goods, hell there isn't even free trade between the provinces.

Personally I am a partisan of economic liberalism, I think government is very inefficient. However, there is truth to arguments from economic socialists and nationalists.

So what do you think NSG?

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Limitata
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Anarchy

Postby Limitata » Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:22 pm

Austrian Economics.
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Postby Kostane » Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:25 pm

I support economic socialism for basic necessities like healthcare, housing, food, education, etc. But, for luxury goods like cars and computers the economy should be privatized to promote competition. There should also be private drug companies and housing contractors that would compete for government sponsorship, similar to how the defense department works. Some things should be for the common good because people deserve to live, but luxury goods that are not fully necessary allow the economy to expand.
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby ARIsyan- » Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:29 pm

This thread would make any sensible economics professor vomit.
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The United States of the America
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Postby The United States of the America » Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:29 pm

Any ideology that allows to put a leash to ultra rich 1% from monopolizing everything and controlling the government BUT NOT constricting economic freedom that would make, for example: small businesses and private farms impossible.

Collectivization of farms/FULL planned economy like USSR ends up with shortage and low quality of goods BUT a nightmare timeline like today all thanks to Reagan "trickle-down economics" neoliberal bullshit and the NAFTA resulted in widening wealth gap and other obvious issues like healthcare and the rising cost of living/rent all because the 1% wants to turn the United States into a economic zone (or a shopping mall) instead of a sovereign nation built and maintained by every class but especially the working class.

A delicate balance is the most optimal.
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Postby Gurkland » Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:47 pm

Port Carverton wrote:Economics is a complicated subject. People can't agree on the role of government in the economy. Nevertheless, something has to be choosed to run the country. In general, there are three main economic ideologies. These are economic liberalism, economic nationalism and economic socialism.

Economic liberalism is the idea that government should stay out of the economy, so it supports privatization of state-owned enterprises, deregulation of economic sectors and free trade. It is the current consensus in the world despite both left-wing (economic socialism) and right-wing (economic nationalism) opposition to it. A good example of economic liberalism was the presidency of Ronald Reagan, the premiership of Margaret "Iron Lady" Thatcher and the opening of the Chinese economy under Deng Xiaoping.

Economic nationalism is kind of a middle of the road between liberalism and socialism. Although it promotes state intervention in the economy to protect national industry, it still allows private actors to invest, run and create businesses. The main goal of economic nationalism is to align the economy with the foreign policy of the country. This is done through tariffs and subsidies to local businesses with the purpose of making it strong to help the country be self-sufficient. An example of this could be the current Chinese economy, or the economic policy of fascist regimes.

Economic socialism is the belief that the economy should serve the common good, whether it is controlled by the government, workers or society in general. Socialism has an emphasis on equality, so goods are distributed equally to serve everyone's needs. Production is also for use instead of profit. An example of a socialist economy is the current rebels in Chiapas, who operate under libertarian (as in very limited government) socialism. Another example of this was the USSR, although this one was authoritarian instead.

It is important to note that no country follows a certain ideology completely. All countries follow a mix of all three, for example Canada who despite being very business friendly overall maintains goverment control over healthcare and imposes many tariffs on foreign goods, hell there isn't even free trade between the provinces.

Personally I am a partisan of economic liberalism, I think government is very inefficient. However, there is truth to arguments from economic socialists and nationalists.

So what do you think NSG?

I am just a pragmatic, i do support a fully privatizated economy, with the government that should own part of the shares of the most profitable companies to boost revenues, the government shouldn't bail out any company, and it's important that the government own assets and wealth, even abroad so the currency maintain its strength and public debt is less of an issue. I do like simple regulations that only focuses on worker rights and health standards, i do believe in complete free trade, i do believe that subsidies as form of investments and government loans only work for a developing economy such as Korea. The only thing that should be socialized are land and rent because ricardian law has proven that unlike the rest of the economy, they do not work well in a free market.
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Postby Vendellamoore » Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm

Laissez-Faire Capitalism
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Postby Urine Town » Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:13 pm

Vendellamoore wrote:Laissez-Faire Capitalism


I’m more of a Laissez-Faire Communist guy myself

In all seriousness, economic socialism always. Jeff Bezos (as an example) could single handedly pay for everyone’s cancer treatment on Planet Earth, among many other acts of philanthropy. If his money was redistributed towards these patients, far fewer people would die of cancer. Now imagine this money being redistributed on a large scale from every Fortune 500 CEO towards everyone in America who is simply trying to make a living. The world would be a far better place without billionaires
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Postby Tundra Terra » Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:21 pm

Since I prefer to own my own property, I more support the economic liberalism with a dash of nationalism to pickup areas that aren't economically viable in a free market.
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Saarenmaa
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Saarenmaa » Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:01 am

Ideology without economic ideology - long live anarchy!
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Durius
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Postby Durius » Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:35 am

Saarenmaa wrote:Ideology without economic ideology - long live anarchy!

That's a very stupid ideology.


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Entropan
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Postby Entropan » Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:55 am

Sorry for being a pedant, I'm quite tired

Port Carverton wrote:Economics is a complicated subject. People can't agree on the role of government in the economy. Nevertheless, something has to be choosed to run the country. In general, there are three main economic ideologies. These are economic liberalism, economic nationalism and economic socialism.

Economic liberalism is the idea that government should stay out of the economy, so it supports privatization of state-owned enterprises, deregulation of economic sectors and free trade. It is the current consensus in the world despite both left-wing (economic socialism) and right-wing (economic nationalism) opposition to it. A good example of economic liberalism was the presidency of Ronald Reagan, the premiership of Margaret "Iron Lady" Thatcher and the opening of the Chinese economy under Deng Xiaoping.


Most economic 'liberals accept some form of state intervention in the economy. Pretty much everyone does, with the exceptions of fringe groups such as the Austrians

Port Carverton wrote:Economic nationalism is kind of a middle of the road between liberalism and socialism. Although it promotes state intervention in the economy to protect national industry, it still allows private actors to invest, run and create businesses. The main goal of economic nationalism is to align the economy with the foreign policy of the country. This is done through tariffs and subsidies to local businesses with the purpose of making it strong to help the country be self-sufficient. An example of this could be the current Chinese economy, or the economic policy of fascist regimes.


That is called dirigisme, and you left out some pretty important schools of thought before going to "planned market economy" (i.e Keynesianism)

Port Carverton wrote:Economic socialism is the belief that the economy should serve the common good, whether it is controlled by the government, workers or society in general. Socialism has an emphasis on equality, so goods are distributed equally to serve everyone's needs. Production is also for use instead of profit. An example of a socialist economy is the current rebels in Chiapas, who operate under libertarian (as in very limited government) socialism. Another example of this was the USSR, although this one was authoritarian instead.


There's a significant difference between the planned economies of former-communist states and the market economies or democratically-planned economies advocated by actual socialists
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c o r p o r a t i s m and mixed economy will always be favorable to me. Call me a Nazi or a Fascist, but I ain't racist. Call me a Libtard or Scandinavian simp but I'm a proud 3rd-worlder Muslim!
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Port Carverton
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Postby Port Carverton » Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:06 am

Entropan wrote:Sorry for being a pedant, I'm quite tired

Port Carverton wrote:Economics is a complicated subject. People can't agree on the role of government in the economy. Nevertheless, something has to be choosed to run the country. In general, there are three main economic ideologies. These are economic liberalism, economic nationalism and economic socialism.

Economic liberalism is the idea that government should stay out of the economy, so it supports privatization of state-owned enterprises, deregulation of economic sectors and free trade. It is the current consensus in the world despite both left-wing (economic socialism) and right-wing (economic nationalism) opposition to it. A good example of economic liberalism was the presidency of Ronald Reagan, the premiership of Margaret "Iron Lady" Thatcher and the opening of the Chinese economy under Deng Xiaoping.


Most economic 'liberals accept some form of state intervention in the economy. Pretty much everyone does, with the exceptions of fringe groups such as the Austrians

Port Carverton wrote:Economic nationalism is kind of a middle of the road between liberalism and socialism. Although it promotes state intervention in the economy to protect national industry, it still allows private actors to invest, run and create businesses. The main goal of economic nationalism is to align the economy with the foreign policy of the country. This is done through tariffs and subsidies to local businesses with the purpose of making it strong to help the country be self-sufficient. An example of this could be the current Chinese economy, or the economic policy of fascist regimes.


That is called dirigisme, and you left out some pretty important schools of thought before going to "planned market economy" (i.e Keynesianism)

Port Carverton wrote:Economic socialism is the belief that the economy should serve the common good, whether it is controlled by the government, workers or society in general. Socialism has an emphasis on equality, so goods are distributed equally to serve everyone's needs. Production is also for use instead of profit. An example of a socialist economy is the current rebels in Chiapas, who operate under libertarian (as in very limited government) socialism. Another example of this was the USSR, although this one was authoritarian instead.


There's a significant difference between the planned economies of former-communist states and the market economies or democratically-planned economies advocated by actual socialists

Yes, but nonetheless they want it to stay out of the economy as much as possible.

This isn't about schools of thought or specific economic systems. It's about more general economic ideologies.

"Actual socialists" you people need to start accepting that socialism can be flawed and can fail like anything else in the world.

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Postby BEEstreetz » Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:25 am

Voted for mix of economic liberalism and socialism because of agreement with what Archregimancy said.

Want to see more elaboration on people voting for economic nationalism, at least as defined in OP... You can make some (niche) feasible economic policies which are recommended by National Strategy Documents of foreign policies, though the listed examples and protectionism in itself are usually not favorable today for most (any) foreign policies. Kind of interested to see what people have in mind.
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Entropan
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Postby Entropan » Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:36 am

Port Carverton wrote:This isn't about schools of thought or specific economic systems. It's about more general economic ideologies.


keynesianism isn't a general economic ideology distinguishable from social democracy?

If it was the general economic ideologies, then you'd have:

Economic liberalism: mixed economy with a bias towards the private sector, private ownership intact
Social democracy: mixed economy with no bias towards either public or private sector, private ownership intact
Economic nationalism: mixed economy with a bias towards the public sector, private ownership intact
Communism: planned economy, ownership by the state
Socialism: planned or market economy, ownership of enterprises

Port Carverton wrote: "Actual socialists" you people need to start accepting that socialism can be flawed and can fail like anything else in the world.


socialism can be flawed, but it, like everything else, has a definition, one which i don't believe you to be accurately representing
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Port Carverton
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Postby Port Carverton » Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:42 am

Entropan wrote:
Port Carverton wrote:This isn't about schools of thought or specific economic systems. It's about more general economic ideologies.


keynesianism isn't a general economic ideology distinguishable from social democracy?

If it was the general economic ideologies, then you'd have:

Economic liberalism: mixed economy with a bias towards the private sector, private ownership intact
Social democracy: mixed economy with no bias towards either public or private sector, private ownership intact
Economic nationalism: mixed economy with a bias towards the public sector, private ownership intact
Communism: planned economy, ownership by the state
Socialism: planned or market economy, ownership of enterprises

Port Carverton wrote: "Actual socialists" you people need to start accepting that socialism can be flawed and can fail like anything else in the world.


socialism can be flawed, but it, like everything else, has a definition, one which i don't believe you to be accurately representing

That is not the definition of economic liberalism. Economic liberalism is what Hayek, Friedman and Smith have promoted; free markets with free trade.

Social democrats are also socialists who won't own up to it/are too scared to admit it.

Also ownership of enterprises by whom?

I'm guessing the reason that I am not representing it very well is that I dared to say socialists (in this case marxist-leninists) are indeed socialists.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:43 am

I'm not an economist, so my opinion is worth basically nil. But I'll give it anyway.

I think a mixed market system is the best way to go. Markets are the most efficient way to run an economy, and a planned economy would not work with anywhere near the same level of efficiency. However completely unregulated markets wouldn't be any good either. Freedom is very important to me, and that includes freedom of businesses, but it also includes freedom FROM business. And that is a very difficult needle to thread, as being under the thumb of a corporation is nothing like being under the thumb of a private person. Unregulated stateless capitalism can rob your freedom just as much as a tyrannical government, even if it doesn't use any direct coercion. Freedom is great, but it IS kind of a paradox. It's not really possible to make it so that every single person is 100% truly free with zero restrictions. It's kind of a balancing act. "The freer the market, the freer the people," is true to a point, but at a certain point it peaks and then begins to make people LESS free.

So yeah, market economy with sensible regulation and public works where necessary. I know it's not exactly out of character for me to come out with the milktoast take, but oh well.
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Postby Gaybeans » Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:47 am

I'm an economic socialist. The existence of billionaires is abhorrent and I cannot be convinced otherwise.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:08 am

Lightly regulated free market capitalism.
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Postby Tillania » Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:29 am

Ethel mermania wrote:Lightly regulated free market capitalism.

Tightly regulated market capitalism.
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