NATION

PASSWORD

We have to pass laws to protect freedoms we thought we had

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Neu California
Senator
 
Posts: 3792
Founded: Jul 12, 2009
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

We have to pass laws to protect freedoms we thought we had

Postby Neu California » Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:06 am

Washington Post wrote:One of the most disquieting pieces of legislation hit the Maryland General Assembly last month.

It’s House Bill 785 — the Freedom to Read Act.

“A library should not exclude material from its catalogue because of the origin, background or views of a person who created the material,” it says.

“A library should not prohibit or remove material from its catalogue because of partisan or doctrinal disapproval.”

And the gut punch is about the librarians themselves. They shall not be “dismissed, demoted, suspended, disciplined, reassigned, transferred or otherwise retaliated against,” the bill states.

This part is urgent.

“I have had library workers come to me and say, ‘I’m scared to recommend books to young people,’” said Tiffany Sutherland, president of the Maryland Library Association and a librarian in Calvert County. Her co-workers feel under siege and beleaguered.

Texas and Florida have been the epicenters of America’s recent book-banning movement. But the book challenges, the retaliation against librarians and the chill of educational discourse are also a concern in blue Maryland.

“This is something you saw on the national news,” said Del. Dana Jones (D-Anne Arundel), who introduced the bill in January. “But it’s happening here, too.”

A similar federal bill — the Fight Book Bans Act — was introduced in the U.S. House in December. Meanwhile, last year Illinois became the first state to pass a law penalizing libraries that ban books. New Jersey was considering one.

The bill in Maryland would be a sweeping and pioneering stand against a trend right out of Europe’s totalitarian age or any of the science-fiction books my kids read (when they were still able to get them in the library).

In the 2022-2023 school year, there were 3,362 instances of books being banned from public school classrooms and libraries, according to Pen America. The organization’s tally includes instances “where students’ access to books in school libraries and classrooms in the United States was restricted or diminished, for either limited or indefinite periods of time.”

It’s the volume of attacks that is new in our era.

Sutherland said that in her 14 years as a librarian, she could previously think of only two instances of book challenges.

“Now, it’s a constant barrage of questioning our collection, questioning our profession, questioning what we’re doing, what our intentions are,” Sutherland said.

We can thank the Moms for Liberty — a name as oxymoronic as “down escalator” — for helping to fuel this assault on a freedom we all thought was part of life in the United States.

They have a playbook: finding passages in books that make them clutch their pearls, submitting objections to libraries, then heading to school board meetings.

There, they read graphic passages, fanning themselves or rolling their eyes. At a Carroll County, Md., school board meeting in the fall, they described garments falling to the ground, “secret sweetness” and rape, apologizing to the audience — which, at these meetings, usually includes the students they’re allegedly protecting.

The campaign was successful in Carroll County — getting more than 50 books removed, including “Slaughterhouse-Five,” “The Handmaid’s Tale” and “Water for Elephants.”

Now the objectors are heading to the Howard County school board with their lists. It must be exhausting to read all those books and demand that a school bans them, right?

“When we see the challenge forms,” Jones, the legislator, said, “there’s a box that asks: ‘Have you read this book that you’re challenging?’ And more times than not, it’s ‘No, I haven’t read the book.’”

Turns out, the Moms for Liberty website links to a cheat code, BookLooks.org, the lazy conservatives’ highlight reel of out-of-context, lurid, violent, provocative or controversial passages of books — no deep reading necessary. Easier for kids to find, too.

While book banners are slamming school boards and librarians with piles of paperwork and appeals, there are other tactics that have remained under the radar.

Sometimes, the objectors just take the book they want to get rid of and walk out with it. Sutherland said she sees that often.

Jones said some libraries that put out a display of books for Pride Month have told her that someone comes in, checks them all out, then returns them in July.

“It happens with Black History Month, too,” she said. “That’s not okay.”

The fine for deliberately walking out with or destroying a book used to be $250. Jones’ bill raises it to $1,000 and a possible three-month jail sentence — all to say to the book banners, “We see you, and we know what you’re doing,” she said.

The fact is, you can’t have it both ways, book banners. You can’t claim freedom and liberty and then decide what books other people can read. You can’t object to the government, then ask the government to do your parenting for you by banning the books you don’t want your kids to read.

“It’s your choice to leave that book on the shelf,” Jones said. “If it’s not right for you, if it’s not right for your family, nobody’s telling you to check it out.”


It's sad that Maryland needs to pass a law preserving freedom of the press. It really is. Especially when in most cases, the ban petitioners admit that they haven't actually read the books in question.

So, NSG, how effective do you think these laws against book bans will be? And how necessary are they?

My opinion: they should at least be moderately effective (three years in prison for destroying a library book or taking it out without checking it out, assuming it's intentional) especially as Moms for Liberty's influence wanes. And the sheer fact that Moms for Liberty got so much influence in the first place shows just how necessary these laws are, that being extremely.
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little"-FDR
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist"-Dom Helder Camara
"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"-Unknown
He/him
Aspie and proud
I'm a weak agnostic without atheistic or theistic leanings.
Endless sucker for romantic lesbian stuff

"During my research I interviewed a guy who said he was a libertarian until he did MDMA and realized that other people have feelings, and that was pretty much the best summary of libertarianism I've ever heard"

User avatar
Kernen
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9966
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:55 am

Like constitutional carry. It's distinctly unfair that anybody needs to pass additional laws to codify that which is inherent in the Constitution.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

User avatar
Port Carverton
Minister
 
Posts: 2988
Founded: Sep 27, 2023
New York Times Democracy

Postby Port Carverton » Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:06 am

3 years for destruction of a book seems insane.

User avatar
Corporate Collective Salvation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1823
Founded: Mar 22, 2023
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Corporate Collective Salvation » Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:47 am

Kernen wrote:Like constitutional carry. It's distinctly unfair that anybody needs to pass additional laws to codify that which is inherent in the Constitution.

It is what happens when a society where words mean things degenerates into one where words mean anything, or nothing, changing by issue, without notice.
The first victim of politics is language, followed closely by truth.
Last edited by Corporate Collective Salvation on Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
"You cannot think your way into right action, but you can act your way into right thinking."
- Bill Wilson, Alcoholics Anonymous

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24214
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Distruzio » Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:50 am

“I have had library workers come to me and say, ‘I’m scared to recommend books to young people,’” said Tiffany Sutherland, president of the Maryland Library Association and a librarian in Calvert County. Her co-workers feel under siege and beleaguered.


Lol.

Why. What's in the books?
Eastern Orthodox Christian
Christ is King
Glorify Him

capitalism is not natural
secularism is not neutral
liberalism is not tolerant

User avatar
Ci Arovannea
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 55
Founded: Apr 05, 2023
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ci Arovannea » Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:30 pm

Distruzio wrote:
“I have had library workers come to me and say, ‘I’m scared to recommend books to young people,’” said Tiffany Sutherland, president of the Maryland Library Association and a librarian in Calvert County. Her co-workers feel under siege and beleaguered.


Lol.

Why. What's in the books?

Usually something that isn't highly oversanitized 1950s family sitcom material.

So. Y'know. Most books ever written are offensive to these kinds of people.
Just Osmauri.
Nothing else.

User avatar
Kalaron
Senator
 
Posts: 4175
Founded: Jun 20, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Kalaron » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:16 pm

Distruzio wrote:
“I have had library workers come to me and say, ‘I’m scared to recommend books to young people,’” said Tiffany Sutherland, president of the Maryland Library Association and a librarian in Calvert County. Her co-workers feel under siege and beleaguered.


Lol.

Why. What's in the books?

Often times they're books about someone's experience with gender, or their understanding of their own sexuality and the struggles of growing up in a society that penalizes non-conformity, or it'll just be a book of advice for how to come out as gay.

So all things you hate, since you want to to repress gay people.

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24214
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Distruzio » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:42 pm

Kalaron wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
Lol.

Why. What's in the books?

Often times they're books about someone's experience with gender, or their understanding of their own sexuality and the struggles of growing up in a society that penalizes non-conformity, or it'll just be a book of advice for how to come out as gay.


Exactly.
Eastern Orthodox Christian
Christ is King
Glorify Him

capitalism is not natural
secularism is not neutral
liberalism is not tolerant

User avatar
Kalaron
Senator
 
Posts: 4175
Founded: Jun 20, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Kalaron » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:43 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Kalaron wrote:Often times they're books about someone's experience with gender, or their understanding of their own sexuality and the struggles of growing up in a society that penalizes non-conformity, or it'll just be a book of advice for how to come out as gay.


Exactly.

I'm glad you can admit that you want to hurt gay people? Not the flex you think it is but w/e lol

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24214
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Distruzio » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:53 pm

Kalaron wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
Exactly.

I'm glad you can admit that you want to hurt gay people? Not the flex you think it is but w/e lol


It doesn't "hurt gay people" to tell folks reading sex-stuff to kids is not good.
Eastern Orthodox Christian
Christ is King
Glorify Him

capitalism is not natural
secularism is not neutral
liberalism is not tolerant

User avatar
Kalaron
Senator
 
Posts: 4175
Founded: Jun 20, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Kalaron » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:55 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Kalaron wrote:I'm glad you can admit that you want to hurt gay people? Not the flex you think it is but w/e lol


It doesn't "hurt gay people" to tell folks reading sex-stuff to kids is not good.

You highlighted the book giving advice to kids on how to come out as gay. That's not "sex-stuff", that's advice on how to live honestly, or to avoid getting hurt by family-members who don't approve.

That you think that's bad shows you want to hurt gay people. I don't really appreciate you being scared to defend the shit you do.

User avatar
Necroghastia
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12736
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:56 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Kalaron wrote:I'm glad you can admit that you want to hurt gay people? Not the flex you think it is but w/e lol


It doesn't "hurt gay people" to tell folks reading sex-stuff to kids is not good.

By your logic, the Bible is "sex stuff," since it talks about gender roles and depicts couples.
The Land of Spooky Scary Skeletons!

Pronouns: she/her

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24214
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Distruzio » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:59 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
It doesn't "hurt gay people" to tell folks reading sex-stuff to kids is not good.

By your logic, the Bible is "sex stuff," since it talks about gender roles and depicts couples.


The Bible is better suited.
Eastern Orthodox Christian
Christ is King
Glorify Him

capitalism is not natural
secularism is not neutral
liberalism is not tolerant

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24214
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Distruzio » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:00 pm

Kalaron wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
It doesn't "hurt gay people" to tell folks reading sex-stuff to kids is not good.

You highlighted the book giving advice to kids on how to come out as gay. That's not "sex-stuff", that's advice on how to live honestly, or to avoid getting hurt by family-members who don't approve.

That you think that's bad shows you want to hurt gay people. I don't really appreciate you being scared to defend the shit you do.


What acts make a person "gay" again? Is it chasing butterflies or eating green beans? Oh! That's right. It's who they have sex with.
Eastern Orthodox Christian
Christ is King
Glorify Him

capitalism is not natural
secularism is not neutral
liberalism is not tolerant

User avatar
Necroghastia
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12736
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:01 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Kalaron wrote:You highlighted the book giving advice to kids on how to come out as gay. That's not "sex-stuff", that's advice on how to live honestly, or to avoid getting hurt by family-members who don't approve.

That you think that's bad shows you want to hurt gay people. I don't really appreciate you being scared to defend the shit you do.


What acts make a person "gay" again? Is it chasing butterflies or eating green beans? Oh! That's right. It's who they have sex with.

One can be gay and as virginal as Mary.
The Land of Spooky Scary Skeletons!

Pronouns: she/her

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59089
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:03 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
What acts make a person "gay" again? Is it chasing butterflies or eating green beans? Oh! That's right. It's who they have sex with.

One can be gay and as virginal as Mary.


Well? How do we know she wasn’t a lesbian? You were expected to have a husband in those days.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24214
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Distruzio » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:07 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
What acts make a person "gay" again? Is it chasing butterflies or eating green beans? Oh! That's right. It's who they have sex with.

One can be gay and as virginal as Mary.


Unironically... no joke... no snark... absolutely seriously...

such a person would be far less sinful than me, in that regard. Regardless, that person should NOT advocate for laws enshrining these books in public schools.
Eastern Orthodox Christian
Christ is King
Glorify Him

capitalism is not natural
secularism is not neutral
liberalism is not tolerant

User avatar
Kalaron
Senator
 
Posts: 4175
Founded: Jun 20, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Kalaron » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:07 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Kalaron wrote:You highlighted the book giving advice to kids on how to come out as gay. That's not "sex-stuff", that's advice on how to live honestly, or to avoid getting hurt by family-members who don't approve.

That you think that's bad shows you want to hurt gay people. I don't really appreciate you being scared to defend the shit you do.


What acts make a person "gay" again? Is it chasing butterflies or eating green beans? Oh! That's right. It's who they have sex with.

So you're not straight if you've never had sex? That's the kind of high-IQ take you're giving here, that's the thing you confidently just kicked out into the public discourse?

You aren't straight if you've had sex with a woman, for reference, nor are you gay for having had sex with a man. It's a term of identity, to describe what you're attracted to. Here's another term of identity, being a fan of a particular sports team. You can be a fan without going to a game, you could just....say what team you would support if you went to one.
Last edited by Kalaron on Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bovad
Minister
 
Posts: 2364
Founded: Mar 16, 2022
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Bovad » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:09 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:One can be gay and as virginal as Mary.


Unironically... no joke... no snark... absolutely seriously...

such a person would be far less sinful than me, in that regard. Regardless, that person should NOT advocate for laws enshrining these books in public schools.

So should we lock children in complexes run by asexuals until the age of 18?
Þ=Th. Join the revival.
Marxist-leninist, atheist, pro-choice, pro-LGBT+. Fuck Nazis.
GENERATION 34: The first time you see this, copy it into your signature on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross" -Apocryphally attributed to Sinclair Lewis.

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24214
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Distruzio » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:12 pm

Kalaron wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
What acts make a person "gay" again? Is it chasing butterflies or eating green beans? Oh! That's right. It's who they have sex with.

So you're not straight if you've never had sex? That's the kind of high-IQ take you're giving here, that's the thing you confidently just kicked out into the public discourse?


Yes.
Eastern Orthodox Christian
Christ is King
Glorify Him

capitalism is not natural
secularism is not neutral
liberalism is not tolerant

User avatar
Kalaron
Senator
 
Posts: 4175
Founded: Jun 20, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Kalaron » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:14 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Kalaron wrote:So you're not straight if you've never had sex? That's the kind of high-IQ take you're giving here, that's the thing you confidently just kicked out into the public discourse?


Yes.

Well, if you don't understand what the word "sexuality" is then I don't know how to reach you?

I guess here: https://www.youngminds.org.uk/young-per ... r%20person.
The best thing I can really do is give you a link to what it means since you're not exactly fighting with a full deck.

User avatar
Necroghastia
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12736
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:17 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:One can be gay and as virginal as Mary.


Unironically... no joke... no snark... absolutely seriously...

such a person would be far less sinful than me, in that regard. Regardless, that person should NOT advocate for laws enshrining these books in public schools.

Mary had a loving husband, you realize.
The Land of Spooky Scary Skeletons!

Pronouns: she/her

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24214
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Distruzio » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:19 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
Unironically... no joke... no snark... absolutely seriously...

such a person would be far less sinful than me, in that regard. Regardless, that person should NOT advocate for laws enshrining these books in public schools.

Mary had a loving husband, you realize.


What does that have to do with strangers wanting to read sex-books to kids?
Eastern Orthodox Christian
Christ is King
Glorify Him

capitalism is not natural
secularism is not neutral
liberalism is not tolerant

User avatar
Kalaron
Senator
 
Posts: 4175
Founded: Jun 20, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Kalaron » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:19 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:Mary had a loving husband, you realize.


What does that have to do with strangers wanting to read sex-books to kids?

Except it's not a "sex-book" and you just don't know what sexuality is. Like you literally think it's "The state of having had sex"
Last edited by Kalaron on Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Necroghastia
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12736
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:33 pm

Kalaron wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
What does that have to do with strangers wanting to read sex-books to kids?

Except it's not a "sex-book" and you just don't know what sexuality is. Like you literally think it's "The state of having had sex"

Precisely.
The Land of Spooky Scary Skeletons!

Pronouns: she/her

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Durius, Nimzonia, Republics of the Solar Union, Risottia, Shrillland, Spirit of Hope, Vassenor

Advertisement

Remove ads