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NDay11 Development Thread

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.
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Chingis
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NDay11 Development Thread

Postby Chingis » Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:04 pm

And that is a wrap! The list of enacted changes can be found here. The link to the previous discussion thread can be found here.

First of all, thank you to everyone who contributed ideas and feedback from last event. I hope that at least some of your ideas or desires were addressed this time around. Secondly, thank you so very much to my fellow techies for their contributions to the event, particularly Roavin, who had to deal with me asking him to make several changes directly to the nationstates database less than 24 hours before the event. Lastly, thank you all in advance for your feedback and ideas on this thread. Please do take the time to tell us about how you feel the event went and what should stay, what should be tweaked and what isn't working. I am also interested in knowing what FEELS fun, and what does not.

Some things to address first:

1. Bugs. Yes, stuff didn't work, and other stuff worked sometimes. I take full responsibility for the somewhat patchy functionality this time around, especially on some of the new changes. You all have my apologies for that. I would really appreciate it if you guys could mention as many of the bugs as you saw/found in this thread as possible (but if 6 other people already have, then there is no need to).
2. Site lag. We are aware that the site died in the first few hours of the event. We will discuss. Thank you all for your patience with that.

My thoughts on the new changes:

1. Shield Bank
- Alas, it did not work. We will fix it. Thank you for being excited about it though.
2. Shielding overflow
- It happened to me a few times, and felt very nice, I see no reason not to keep it.
3. Bikini Atoll
- Certainly a few bugs, I know what causes them but not what they all are, so do let me know. Not sure if this feature was useful this year around, but would love to hear feedback.
4. Production changes
- I was left happy with this overall, it felt nice to me to just click the button more and see bigger numbers.
5. 4x nukes per point of rad
- This felt okay to me, I know that there were bugs with this too and we will also try to catch them all.
6. Cross-Faction shielding.
- I don't know if this felt much different for anyone but am happy to bump the number up past 20%, maybe even to 50. I do think that it should feel more taxing to shield another faction.
7. Captchas
- Seems like they were better?
8. Less prod penalty per radiation point
- I am happy with this, it felt much more fun to play even while irradiated.

Plans for Next NDay:
1. Fixing the code. We want to fix up all the small bugs that found their way into the codebase with the new additions, as well as clean up the UI and flavour text.
2. Score rework with radiation. This is still on the menu, though we didn't have time this time. Expect around a 75% reduction on rad effect for score loss.
3. Lowering the site load. Hoping to redo some parts of the code to reduce the amount of load that the day has on the site, and make it a smoother experience for everyone.
4. Hopefully reworking some parts of the UI to make it nicer.

Long-term plans:
1. Make specialisation more fun. Econs are still cringe, Intels are still mid. Maybe make Mil and Strat feel stronger at what they're good at?
2. Radiation Cleanup. I'm still undecided on the final product with this, but I would like to give factions more tools with which to clean up radiation and get back in the game.
3. Possibly start to slightly punish factions for being large. Nothing major, but it would be cool to deflate the faction sizes slightly.

Your ideas:
1. Turn Shield Bank on/off. I don't dislike this idea.
Last edited by Chingis on Sun Feb 25, 2024 4:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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The Ambis
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Postby The Ambis » Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:41 pm

All of those look really good! Very excited for this go around!
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Altys
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Postby Altys » Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:27 pm

I like those changes and so do the people I've talked to about it, with the exception of cross faction shielding costing more. It seems to implicitly enforce the "merge all factions" meta instead of encouraging them to split up and form alliances with each others (Starlight last event for example had ANAL's strongest puppetmaster and former High Commander - Cat). For defensive alliances seem too costly now. Also means this just buffs existing standalone factions, thus HotA, too.
Last edited by Altys on Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Velstrania
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Postby Velstrania » Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:36 am

I don't think I like the shield bank idea. It allows puppetmasters to just place a large amount of their shields there when there's a period of calm, rather than needing to keep their shields and production in mind or written down more continuously. Running 1000 puppets should be harder, not easier.

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Haganham
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Postby Haganham » Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:54 am

"Faction Ejection

To maintain a distinct NS flavour to faction border-control, we are introducing NDay's first Game Created Faction - Bikini Atoll (located conveniently at fid=0). This faction functions as any other faction, with one exception - when the relevant faction authority (a nation with BC perms in the parent region) utilises the new 'Eject from Faction' button, the offending nation will be teleported into Bikini Atoll, together with all of its targets and targetted nations. The only exceptions are nations with incoming nukes, which cannot be kicked from your faction. Once in Bikini Atoll, nations cannot leave until all the nukes targeted on them have cleared, as usual."

What stops us just ejecting anyone who gets targets on them before a launch is ready?
Last edited by Haganham on Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Imagine reading a signature, but over the course of it the quality seems to deteriorate and it gets wose an wose, where the swenetence stwucture and gwammer rewerts to a pwoint of uttew non swence, an u jus dont wanna wead it anymwore (o´ω`o) awd twa wol owdewl iws jus awfwul (´・ω・`);. bwt tw sinawtur iwswnwt obwer nyet, it gwos own an own an own an own. uwu wanyaa stwop weadwing bwut uwu cwant stop wewding, uwu stwartd thwis awnd ur gwoing two fwinibsh it nowo mwattew wat! uwu hab mwoxie kwiddowo, bwut uwu wibl gwib ub sowon. i cwan wite wike dis fwor owors, swo dwont cwalengbe mii..

… wbats dis??? uwu awe stwill weedinb mwie sinatwr?? uwu habe awot ob detewemwinyanyatiom!! 。◕‿◕。! u habve comopweedid tha signwtr, good job!

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Velstrania
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Postby Velstrania » Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:50 am

Haganham wrote:
"Faction Ejection

To maintain a distinct NS flavour to faction border-control, we are introducing NDay's first Game Created Faction - Bikini Atoll (located conveniently at fid=0). This faction functions as any other faction, with one exception - when the relevant faction authority (a nation with BC perms in the parent region) utilises the new 'Eject from Faction' button, the offending nation will be teleported into Bikini Atoll, together with all of its targets and targetted nations. The only exceptions are nations with incoming nukes, which cannot be kicked from your faction. Once in Bikini Atoll, nations cannot leave until all the nukes targeted on them have cleared, as usual."

What stops us just ejecting anyone who gets targets on them before a launch is ready?

That, and I see the random unauthorised launches as a genuine, desireable part of the game. Means people have to do some diplomacy.

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IN FULL BLOOM
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Postby IN FULL BLOOM » Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:25 pm

Haganham wrote:What stops us just ejecting anyone who gets targets on them before a launch is ready?

This is my question as well - I can see this being taken advantage of.
Of course ejecting the nation takes all of their nukes and shields with them, but larger factions won't be as affected and can just move those nations back in once the incoming nukes are shielded.

But hey - at least we made megafactions stronger.

Velstrania wrote:What stops us just ejecting anyone who gets targets on them before a launch is ready?

As do I. It's been a completely valid and understandable strategy from people who don't participate in megafactions. Unfortunately many of the leaders of those factions could not handle that inconvenience because they want the perfect playing experience at the expense of everyone else.
Last edited by IN FULL BLOOM on Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Velstrania
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Postby Velstrania » Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:43 pm

IN FULL BLOOM wrote:
Haganham wrote:What stops us just ejecting anyone who gets targets on them before a launch is ready?

This is my question as well - I can see this being taken advantage of.
Of course ejecting the nation takes all of their nukes and shields with them, but larger factions won't be as affected and can just move those nations back in once the incoming nukes are shielded.

But hey - at least we made megafactions stronger.

Velstrania wrote:What stops us just ejecting anyone who gets targets on them before a launch is ready?

As do I. It's been a completely valid and understandable strategy from people who don't participate in megafactions. Unfortunately many of the leaders of those factions could not handle that inconvenience because they want the perfect playing experience at the expense of everyone else.

I've been participating in megafactions since n-day 2. The thing is, not only do faction leaders not need that convenience, they should not have any right to it. There is supposed to be some level of chaos in n-day. People are independent actors who have chosen to join your faction. There are some who take up leadership roles, there are some who run hundreds of puppets and I can only assume need new fingers each time. There are some, like me, who run about 60 puppets and do what we can; others run much less but are still bit-part players in a given faction. Being a complete pain in the arse to a faction is a legit way of playing the game. Don't want them to target your friends? Use your (now more expensive) shielding power to stop it.

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Chingis
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Postby Chingis » Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:02 pm

People are free to play however they want within the new set of rules provided. If faction leaders think that they can benefit from kicking all targeted nations into Bikini Atoll, then they are free to do so this NDay. If I think that it makes the game less fun, I will simply tweak the rules/mechanics again for the next NDay, and so on.

However, I like the idea of tradeoffs, which was one of my key principles in making these changes. Factions can now kick their rogues, but in exchange, I have made their shields to other factions a bit more expensive. You can kick your targeted nations, but shielding them while they're in Bikini Atoll will cost you more shields in the long run. You can automate away some of your nuke defences and nukes aren't as crippling to your production any more, but in exchange, the difference in nuke and shield counts is 5x as large. Let's see how these play out for now.
Last edited by Chingis on Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Narvatus
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Postby Narvatus » Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:01 pm

page=factions still says at the bottom "Factions are scored on Strikes minus Radiation." even though this is no longer necessarily true since factions are now scored on strikes minus 1/4th of their radiation

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Chingis
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Postby Chingis » Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:54 pm

Currently, the only piece of code live on this site instead of our test site are the middle two bug fixes from the dispatch. The rest (as well as small flavour-text changes which I am sure we will forget plenty of) should slowly appear over the next few days leading up to the event.
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Almonaster Nuevo
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Postby Almonaster Nuevo » Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:23 pm

Fation endrsements from N-10 appear to have carried over to N-11. Was this intentional?
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Chingis
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Postby Chingis » Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:19 pm

9 to 10, but yeah, not ideal. We'll make sure to clear those next NDay.
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Ancientania
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Postby Ancientania » Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:25 pm

I don't know if this is the right place so please correct me if this is the wrong place.

On a puppet account, I have RO powers. That puppet is in a different region. In addition, because I did not want to nuke myself, that puppet is in my faction. However, I have found that because of some RO power I have in the region it's stationed in I can change the region's N-day faction page. Can you make it so that only ROs that are part of the region's faction can edit the region's N-day page?
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Postby Gorutimania » Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:27 pm

Ancientania wrote:I don't know if this is the right place so please correct me if this is the wrong place.

On a puppet account, I have RO powers. That puppet is in a different region. In addition, because I did not want to nuke myself, that puppet is in my faction. However, I have found that because of some RO power I have in the region it's stationed in I can change the region's N-day faction page. Can you make it so that only ROs that are part of the region's faction can edit the region's N-day page?

That would actually be a good thing to add, to prevent trolling orders from ROs in other factions.
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Ancientania
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Postby Ancientania » Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:29 pm

Gorutimania wrote:
Ancientania wrote:I don't know if this is the right place so please correct me if this is the wrong place.

On a puppet account, I have RO powers. That puppet is in a different region. In addition, because I did not want to nuke myself, that puppet is in my faction. However, I have found that because of some RO power I have in the region it's stationed in I can change the region's N-day faction page. Can you make it so that only ROs that are part of the region's faction can edit the region's N-day page?

That would actually be a good thing to add, to prevent trolling orders from ROs in other factions.

I'm not going to make use of this power but I can't be sure about everyone else. It was just something I'd noticed.
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West Barack and East Obama
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Postby West Barack and East Obama » Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:33 pm

Would Bikini Atoll work as a normal faction aside from no one being able to be ejected and I suppose having no ROs to change faction appearance?
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Postby Roavin » Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:25 am

West Barack and East Obama wrote:Would Bikini Atoll work as a normal faction aside from no one being able to be ejected and I suppose having no ROs to change faction appearance?


Yes, you'll be able to launch nukes and shield from there like any other. Note, though, that you can't explicitly join it - your nation(s) have to be deported there.
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Postby Trotterdam » Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:00 am

Can you make your own faction and then ban yourself?

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Chingis
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Postby Chingis » Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:38 am

Most of the promised changes are now live. The captcha changes are staged for deployment on this server, but don't expect any miracles - those of you using puppets should experience noticeably fewer captchas on average, but I was not able to get any major difference in the captcha types or the way that Google prioritises who gets them and who does not. I'll keep looking into it going forward.

The changes to faction scoring will not occur this year - the score will remain as [strikes - rad], due to this change being surprisingly time-consuming to implement. The changes to radiation taken per strike should be tested and deployed in time for the event to start.
Last edited by Chingis on Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kakastania
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Postby Kakastania » Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:09 am

I found this old post about a ZAPI. Any chance we could have something similar for a future N-Day?

For example, if I have 1000 puppets I want to put in my faction, but I've only got 999 in and I can't figure out the one I'm missing, right now I have to run html scraping to compare the puppets I want to put in with the ones that are in, which takes more time and is more likely to run afoul of site rules.

That's just a really simple example of the ways this could be used, but there are many more sophisticated ways that this could enhance gameplay.

Of course, I am not familiar with what goes on to make an API, so I'd understand if this is not something worth the work right now.

Thanks!

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Haku
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Postby Haku » Sat Feb 24, 2024 11:38 am

Not sure if this is temporary while last minute development is being done but the numerical nation list is currently broken:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=facti ... ew=nations

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The Ice States
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Postby The Ice States » Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:25 pm

HAKu wrote:Not sure if this is temporary while last minute development is being done but the numerical nation list is currently broken:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=facti ... ew=nations

I also seem to be getting this issue.
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Haganham
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Postby Haganham » Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:47 pm

Chingis wrote:The changes to faction scoring will not occur this year - the score will remain as [strikes - rad], due to this change being surprisingly time-consuming to implement.

Which change to faction scoring is that?
Imagine reading a signature, but over the course of it the quality seems to deteriorate and it gets wose an wose, where the swenetence stwucture and gwammer rewerts to a pwoint of uttew non swence, an u jus dont wanna wead it anymwore (o´ω`o) awd twa wol owdewl iws jus awfwul (´・ω・`);. bwt tw sinawtur iwswnwt obwer nyet, it gwos own an own an own an own. uwu wanyaa stwop weadwing bwut uwu cwant stop wewding, uwu stwartd thwis awnd ur gwoing two fwinibsh it nowo mwattew wat! uwu hab mwoxie kwiddowo, bwut uwu wibl gwib ub sowon. i cwan wite wike dis fwor owors, swo dwont cwalengbe mii..

… wbats dis??? uwu awe stwill weedinb mwie sinatwr?? uwu habe awot ob detewemwinyanyatiom!! 。◕‿◕。! u habve comopweedid tha signwtr, good job!

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Postby Stalin as a DEAT » Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:58 pm

https://www.nationstates.net/page=faction/fid=113
Someone named their faction Bikini Atoll
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