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Is the US truly capitalist?

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Makko Oko
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Is the US truly capitalist?

Postby Makko Oko » Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:35 pm

I have seen time and time again the debate of Capitalism vs. [whatever other economic model]. You cannot compare economic models to one another because, very simply put, they are all reaching for the same goal, just in different ways. Adam Smith described capitalism best, as only generating the greatest good is best and preferred. Do you all know what the greatest good is defined as?

1) Happiness
2) QoL
3) Freedom/autonomy
4) Safety and Security
etc...

Let me ask you here, do you all think that today in the US, we are all equal and have the greatest good? Is that being achieved? Do we have zero income inequality? Let me know your thoughts here and lets talk
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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:39 pm

No, America is a communist utopia only rivaled by even more egalitarian countries like the PRC

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Paradise Town
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Postby Paradise Town » Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:40 pm

Well do be honest, America never fixated themselves on Capitalism it was more of the citizens who did, the Soviets then called the entirety of America as "Capitalist pigs" so no, they have more of a slightly more democratic stance than True Capitalism.
Last edited by Paradise Town on Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kostane
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Postby Kostane » Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:41 pm

Makko Oko wrote:I have seen time and time again the debate of Capitalism vs. [whatever other economic model]. You cannot compare economic models to one another because, very simply put, they are all reaching for the same goal, just in different ways. Adam Smith described capitalism best, as only generating the greatest good is best and preferred. Do you all know what the greatest good is defined as?

1) Happiness
2) QoL
3) Freedom/autonomy
4) Safety and Security
etc...

Let me ask you here, do you all think that today in the US, we are all equal and have the greatest good? Is that being achieved? Do we have zero income inequality? Let me know your thoughts here and lets talk

Well if you determine an ideology by its expected effects, then America is not capitalist. But, that’s not how you determine ideology.

Adam Smith described a capitalist system as where the governments only role in the economy is the military. That is not true for the United States. The United States has a mixed economy.
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Postby Tyramon » Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:43 pm

You appear to be conflating philosophy and economics. I don't think Adam Smith was talking about "happiness" when he said those things. But regardless, to answer the question, yes, the U.S. is truly capitalist. Very much so. Completely, purely so? No, but very much so.

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Postby Washington-Columbia » Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:48 pm

No. It is secretly 4 Texan Cowboys from the Dallas Metroplex and 9 lesbian anarchists pretending to be a whole country.
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Paradise Town
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Postby Paradise Town » Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:52 pm

Washington-Columbia wrote:No. It is secretly 4 Texan Cowboys from the Dallas Metroplex and 9 lesbian anarchists pretending to be a whole country.

lesbian anarchist? CHAZ (Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone) reference??
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:54 pm

What is a woman capitalist economy?
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Postby Ineva » Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:57 pm

It's become more economically mixed than Americans like to make it out to be, but I still feel the U.S. is largely capitalist.
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Makko Oko
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Postby Makko Oko » Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:12 pm

Kostane wrote:
Makko Oko wrote:I have seen time and time again the debate of Capitalism vs. [whatever other economic model]. You cannot compare economic models to one another because, very simply put, they are all reaching for the same goal, just in different ways. Adam Smith described capitalism best, as only generating the greatest good is best and preferred. Do you all know what the greatest good is defined as?

1) Happiness
2) QoL
3) Freedom/autonomy
4) Safety and Security
etc...

Let me ask you here, do you all think that today in the US, we are all equal and have the greatest good? Is that being achieved? Do we have zero income inequality? Let me know your thoughts here and lets talk

Well if you determine an ideology by its expected effects, then America is not capitalist. But, that’s not how you determine ideology.

Adam Smith described a capitalist system as where the governments only role in the economy is the military. That is not true for the United States. The United States has a mixed economy.


One can argue that some regulation was always needed to be able to obtain the greatest good. Even if Adam's rules never dictated that, we can all agree that not all of us have what capitalism requires, which regulation makes up for.

Tyramon wrote:You appear to be conflating philosophy and economics. I don't think Adam Smith was talking about "happiness" when he said those things. But regardless, to answer the question, yes, the U.S. is truly capitalist. Very much so. Completely, purely so? No, but very much so.


Both are not mutually exclusive. Before Adam created that concept he was actually a professor teaching ethics.
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Vendellamoore
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Postby Vendellamoore » Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:19 pm

The US is capitalist, but is definitely not laissez-faire, which is arguably the most "pure" form of capitalism. The US is relatively Capitalist, but veers into Corporatocracy in certain industries. Government handouts create monopolies.
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Rusticus Damianus
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Postby Rusticus Damianus » Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:24 pm

No.
Last edited by Rusticus Damianus on Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Great Khavar
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Postby Great Khavar » Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:29 pm

Capitalism is not 'free markets', anymore than socialism is when the government does stuff. The Marxist (and ultimately best) definition of capitalism is a mode of production characterised by generalised commodity production. This means that goods and services are produced for the purpose of being exchanged in order to generate profits, rather than simply being produced for use. This is the fundamental principle that underpins capitalism, it has nothing to do with notions of 'generating the greatest good'.

So, to answer the OP's question, we need only ask if the US economy operates via generalised commodity production. Given that the answer is clearly yes, we can say the United States of America is indeed capitalist, as is every existing country in the world.
Last edited by Great Khavar on Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:31 pm

Rusticus Damianus wrote:No, since roughly 50% of the economy is made up by the government. At best the US is corporatist rather than truly Capitalist.

This is a gross overestimate and it demonstrates you have no idea what capitalism actually is
Last edited by El Lazaro on Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Diarcesia
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Postby Diarcesia » Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:31 pm

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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:44 pm

Capitalism by itself isn't really a political ideology, but a simple economic system.

That being said, it's a bit complicated because on one hand, corporations have so much power economically and politically and at the same time, small businesses are just being smashed and the regulations on starting such businesses in some areas are just too much.

The US is more like corporation-dominated state with government presence in many areas, but for the wrong reasons.
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Great Khavar
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Postby Great Khavar » Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:52 pm

Jolthig wrote:Capitalism by itself isn't really a political ideology, but a simple economic system.

That being said, it's a bit complicated because on one hand, corporations have so much power economically and politically and at the same time, small businesses are just being smashed and the regulations on starting such businesses in some areas are just too much.

The US is more like corporation-dominated state with government presence in many areas, but for the wrong reasons.

None of those factors exclude the US from being a capitalist economy.
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:55 pm

Great Khavar wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Capitalism by itself isn't really a political ideology, but a simple economic system.

That being said, it's a bit complicated because on one hand, corporations have so much power economically and politically and at the same time, small businesses are just being smashed and the regulations on starting such businesses in some areas are just too much.

The US is more like corporation-dominated state with government presence in many areas, but for the wrong reasons.

None of those factors exclude the US from being a capitalist economy.

But when you consider the perspectives of small business owners, the US is hardly capitalist.

It's a weird paradox. The US is the most capitalist when it comes to huge corporations and yet barely capitalist on small businesses.
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Great Khavar
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Postby Great Khavar » Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:00 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Great Khavar wrote:None of those factors exclude the US from being a capitalist economy.

But when you consider the perspectives of small business owners, the US is hardly capitalist.

It's a weird paradox. The US is the most capitalist when it comes to huge corporations and yet barely capitalist on small businesses.

Not really, the nature of capitalist competition inevitably puts small businesses in the vice. They just can't compete against the sheer economies of scale wielded by big business. There's nothing un-capitalist about it, and in fact the only way to stop it would be to severely restrict economic competition and forcibly break up large economic units into small enterprises that are themselves not permitted to grow.

It isn't anything particularly new either, this sort of thing was happening two hundred years ago as the industrial revolution took off.
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ARIsyan-
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby ARIsyan- » Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:05 pm

No, America is a communist dictatorship run by Supreme Chairman of the USSA Joseph Biden who's only hope is to elect Donald Trump as the eternal King of America as foreseen by Jesus Christ himself
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Zantalio
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Postby Zantalio » Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:08 pm

Hybrid economy, with gov. services and market economy.
It’s overall better than either pure capitalism or pure communism, but it aligns more with capitalism.
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Postby Unmet Player » Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:09 pm

It's purely capitalist
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Paradise Town
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Postby Paradise Town » Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:10 pm

ARIsyan- wrote:No, America is a communist dictatorship run by Supreme Chairman of the USSA Joseph Biden who's only hope is to elect Donald Trump as the eternal King of America as foreseen by Jesus Christ himself

Are you sure America isn't a Authoritarian state that believes Americans are superior unto all, which was prophesied by John on Patmos in Revelations
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Erosodom
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Postby Erosodom » Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:18 pm

America is as capitalist as it gets, except maybe Switzerland
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Great Khavar
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Postby Great Khavar » Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:21 pm

I feel it is also worth pointing out that capitalism isn't a spectrum, it's an either-or sort of thing. You can't have a mixture of capitalism and socialism, they are mutually exclusive modes of production.
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