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[SUBMITTED] A Patriotic Lie

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Queroquestan
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[SUBMITTED] A Patriotic Lie

Postby Queroquestan » Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:05 am

Main motive : The motive is that the filmmaker made a film based on the history of 45 soldiers, who defeated 5000 Maxtopian soldiers at the Battle of Red Ice. But, the problem arosed when it was proved by historians and archaeologists that all 45 soldiers were killed by Maxtopia and the retired Maxtopian soldier proves to be alive and confirms that verification.

The Issue

A historic documentary titled "Immortal @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@: Braveness Never Dies" was released a few weeks ago, which showed that in the Battle of Red Ice, which happened more than 80 years ago, 45 @@DEMONYM@@ soldiers single-handedly defeated 5,000 Maxtopian soldiers and rebels. But the problem arose when, about a week after the release of the documentary, historians claimed that the Maxtopian armies killed all 45 @@DEMONYM@@ soldiers, and the Maxtopian veterans were also discovered to be alive and well.

The Debate

1. "One minute." says your brother while pausing the movie trailer on his mobile. "I read somewhere that in the Battle of Red Ice, 5000 Maxtopian soldiers penetrated 500 km inside our border, then destroyed many records in that area. In addition, Maxtopia had modern missiles and warplanes, because of which our old government buildings were destroyed, including the government archives. This shows that people are patriotic but do not want to know the dark truth about their country. I say that this film should be stopped and we should censor any new films that talk about our history."

nowadays filmmakers ask historians whether the Maxtopian soldier wore undergarments or not


2. "Now look." The director of the film, @@RANDOMNAME@@, said. “This is the fault of those historians and archaeologists. They did not investigate the history properly, nor did they formally say that they were investigating the history in depth. If we had been told earlier, I would never have made this film. @@LEADER@@, it is crystal clear to me that this film should be aired, no matter how much any historian sticks his nose in."

@@DEMONYM@@ people believe their army is invincible


3. "I completely agree with your brother." another historian, @@RANDOMNAME@@ says, nodding @@HIS@@ head vigorously. "I also read somewhere that after our defeat in the Battle of Red Ice, our soldiers made a new strategy and we were able to regain our lost territory. I am talking about a different war. The film should be made on this history, and the previous film should be pulled."

there is no such thing as a creative license anymore


4. "Now listen." General of the @@DEMONYM@@ Armed Forces @@RANDOMNAME@@ says after silencing everyone. "We don't care about whether people watch this film or not. But we can use it as propaganda. Just watch the trailer of this film, how our 45 brave fighters enter Maxtopia and kill all those rascals. We will also show this trailer to new recruits, so that they are roused with patriotism and at the same time, we will show this trailer on our borders too, so that the neighboring countries do not even look at us."

border guards of neighboring countries are tired of watching the trailer again and again


You are free to add or modify options. If any question, ask me. You can add more options. If macros are wrong, please tell me.
Last edited by Queroquestan on Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:50 am, edited 15 times in total.

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Harumasuke
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Postby Harumasuke » Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:39 am

How come the director and archaeologist are male? Can’t they be female as well?
Also, I fail to see any meaningful outcome of option one, other than that one movie being released just as normal. Maybe choosing the option could promote historically inaccurate films, or even propaganda? The wording of outcome 2 makes it seem like the filmmakers “used to” ask historians, meaning they don’t anymore.
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Postby Tinhampton » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:37 pm

This issue deserves a better title than "Completely Unrevealed Historic Film". May I suggest Army of Lies?

In the English language, when a movie is "released," it has had its first airing in a cinema. This is different to when a movie is "announced," in which its basic premise, main actors and prospective release date are made public. If the debate is about whether a movie that has been "released" should be "aired," then the debate is too late to make any major difference: the movie has already been aired somewhere.
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Answering Queries of Harumasuke

Postby Queroquestan » Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:35 am

Harumasuke wrote:How come the director and archaeologist are male? Can’t they be female as well?

Hmm... you're right. But I couldn't think of any other option, so I had to do it like this :? . I completely agree with you :bow:. There are two ways in this; - either suggest a new option or I replace the macros with RANDOMNAME.
Harumasuke wrote:Also, I fail to see any meaningful outcome of option one, other than that one movie being released just as normal. Maybe choosing the option could promote historically inaccurate films, or even propaganda?

Yes, choosing this option would mean promoting the government instead of the film. Not only this, people will develop a kind of wrong thinking by watching a historically wrong film, because this film shows good things about the country. Additionally, governments will stop making or promoting films that they feel reflect the ills of the country.
Harumasuke wrote:The wording of outcome 2 makes it seem like the filmmakers “used to” ask historians, meaning they don’t anymore.

Agreed, grammatical mistake. Let's correct it.
Nowadays filmmakers ask historians whether the Maxtopian soldier wore undergarments or not. WIll it be OK? :?:

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Answering Queries of Tinhampton

Postby Queroquestan » Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:28 am

Tinhampton wrote:This issue deserves a better title than "Completely Unrevealed Historic Film". May I suggest Army of Lies?

Hmm.... Your suggested title is 85% appropriate. Now, its my turn. Could it be A Patriotic Lie? I need your approval.

Army of Lies or A Patriotic Lie?

Why "A Patriotic Lie"? :- Since, the movie is based on 45 soldiers of the nation who fought against total 5000 Maxtopian armies and rebels. But after some time, it was proved to be a lie, as the archaeologists said.
Tinhampton wrote:In the English language, when a movie is "released," it has had its first airing in a cinema. This is different to when a movie is "announced," in which its basic premise, main actors and prospective release date are made public. If the debate is about whether a movie that has been "released" should be "aired," then the debate is too late to make any major difference: the movie has already been aired somewhere.

So in simple meaning, maybe you are pointing towards this :-
A historic documentary titled "Immortals @@DEMONYM@@: Braveness Never Dies" was released, which showed that in the Battle of Red Ice, 45 @@DEMONYM@@ soldiers single-handedly defeated 5,000 Maxtopian soldiers and rebels. But, the problem arose that, about a month after the release of the documentary, historians and archaeologists proved that the Maxtopian armies killed all 45 @@DEMONYM@@ soldiers and the retired soldiers of those armies also gave proof of being alive, despite of being aged.

Actually, a film or documentary is released and telecast within a month. But, here it is written about a month, which means completion of the month, that is, a very long period. And within that, that film may have aired in other theaters.

So, I think it should be changed to about a week. This will provide time for the release of the film and also time for debate.
Last edited by Queroquestan on Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Queroquestan » Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:00 am

A new option is added.
"Now listen." General of the @@DEMONYM@@ Armed Forces @@RANDOMNAME@@ says while sipping tea after silencing everyone. "We don't care whether people watch this film or not. But we can use it as a propaganda video. Just watch the trailer of this film, how our 45 brave fighters enter Maxtopia and kill all the jackals. We will also show this trailer to the newly recruited soldiers, so that patriotism can be awakened in their minds and at the same time, we will show this trailer on our borders too, so that the neighboring countries do not even look at us."

the armies of neighboring countries are tired of watching the trailer again and again
Last edited by Queroquestan on Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:13 am

Queroquestan wrote:Army of Lies or A Patriotic Lie?

Your choice.
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Postby Queroquestan » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:17 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Queroquestan wrote:Army of Lies or A Patriotic Lie?

Your choice.

I think it's all about patriotic film, but released before the proof by the archaeologist. So, i would choose "A Patriotic Lie"

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Postby Trotterdam » Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:38 am

When did this war happen?

The more recent a war was, the less likely there is to be serious confusion over its events, as records should still be fresh (and modern cultures are better at recording stuff in general than ancient ones were, due to omnipresent literacy and fast communication and such). If the war was recent enough that veterans who fought in it are still alive, then it shouldn't require archeologists to figure out such a basic fact.

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Queroquestan
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Answering Queries of Trotterdam

Postby Queroquestan » Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:49 am

Trotterdam wrote:When did this war happen?

The more recent a war was, the less likely there is to be serious confusion over its events, as records should still be fresh (and modern cultures are better at recording stuff in general than ancient ones were, due to omnipresent literacy and fast communication and such). If the war was recent enough that veterans who fought in it are still alive, then it shouldn't require archeologists to figure out such a basic fact.

First see this properly :-
A historic documentary titled "Immortals @@DEMONYM@@: Braveness Never Dies" was released, which showed that in the Battle of Red Ice,....

If the word "historical" exists, it would certainly refer to older history, not history that has occurred more recently.

I think you were asking how many years ago this war happened. This war took place more than 50 years ago. That was the period of development of communication system and archival system.

A twist... During the Battle of Red Ice, the rebels attacking @@NATION@@ destroyed many things, including the Archive House. If you doubt when I mentioned 'rebels', read the issue description again.

You may also be wondering how the rebels attacked inside @@NATION@@. I also mentioned the Maxtopian soldiers who were on the side of the rebels. They attacked the @@DEMONYM@@ armies and entered inside the border. There they also killed the citizens of @@NATION@@. Along with this, most of the properties were also destroyed.

You may also ask how despite Maxtopia's massive victory, @@NATION@@ forces managed to take back their lands from the clutches of Maxtopia. So know this. I'm talking about the Battle of Red Ice, in which the country actually lost. And I am talking about the second war in which the country got its land back from the enemy. At the same time, you may also suspect that the director should have shown the second battle in which the nation regained its ground. So the answer is that if the director had shown that movie, people would have been confused about when the Maxtopians attacked them. People will also criticize how Maxtopians came to their land.

The director's film in this issue was making it clear that the Maxtopians attacked the country, but not much property was lost and they could not even enter the border.

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Postby Verdant Haven » Wed Dec 13, 2023 12:16 pm

Queroquestan wrote:If the word "historical" exists, it would certainly refer to older history, not history that has occurred more recently.

I think you were asking how many years ago this war happened. This war took place more than 50 years ago. That was the period of development of communication system and archival system.

While communications and archival systems and technology always continue to develop, 50 years certainly wasn't before those things – not by a long shot. Heck, live telecasts from the Moon were more than 50 years ago. We've had commercial TV for 90+ years, commercial radio for 100+, commercial film for 125+, and reliable near-instant trans-oceanic telegraphy for 150+ years. Complex, well-managed archives have been around for millennia.

Queroquestan wrote:A twist... During the Battle of Red Ice, the rebels attacking @@NATION@@ destroyed many things, including the Archive House. If you doubt when I mentioned 'rebels', read the issue description again.

You may also be wondering how the rebels attacked inside @@NATION@@. I also mentioned the Maxtopian soldiers who were on the side of the rebels. They attacked the @@DEMONYM@@ armies and entered inside the border. There they also killed the citizens of @@NATION@@. Along with this, most of the properties were also destroyed.

You may also ask how despite Maxtopia's massive victory, @@NATION@@ forces managed to take back their lands from the clutches of Maxtopia. So know this. I'm talking about the Battle of Red Ice, in which the country actually lost. And I am talking about the second war in which the country got its land back from the enemy. At the same time, you may also suspect that the director should have shown the second battle in which the nation regained its ground. So the answer is that if the director had shown that movie, people would have been confused about when the Maxtopians attacked them. People will also criticize how Maxtopians came to their land.

The director's film in this issue was making it clear that the Maxtopians attacked the country, but not much property was lost and they could not even enter the border.

An issue needs to be both succinct and self-contained – it needs to have within itself all content necessary to both understand the dilemma, and make a decision about it. It also needs to respect player autonomy. One might be able to make certain assumptions about the ancient past (a thousand years ago, for example) to move an issue along, but telling people that their entire nation was overwhelmed, burned, colonized multiple times, etc, all within the life of much of its current population (and possibly during the rule of the current Leader - Queen Elizabeth II had been queen for more than 70 years at the time of her death last year) isn't something that's going to work.

The topic of some historic point of pride being disproven, or popular belief being challenged by facts, is a reasonable one to present if it finds proper framing. This needs a bit of work to find that footing.

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Postby Queroquestan » Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:28 am

Various editing is made in the issue. You are requested to review again.

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Postby Queroquestan » Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:02 am

Verdant Haven, if you don't mind, please review the issue. I have combined some points, that were perplex in this issue.

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Postby Bendicion » Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:36 am

Queroquestan wrote:Verdant Haven, if you don't mind, please review the issue. I have combined some points, that were perplex in this issue.

VH will get to it when he gets to.

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Postby Queroquestan » Sat Dec 16, 2023 2:21 am

BUMP

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Postby Khardsland » Sat Dec 16, 2023 11:38 am

Hey there, there are a few mistakes in the description which I have boldened for you.

Queroquestan wrote:A historic documentary titled "Immortals @@DEMONYM@@: Braveness Never Dies" was released, which showed that in the Battle of Red Ice that happened more than 80 years ago, 45 @@DEMONYM@@ soldiers single-handedly defeated 5,000 Maxtopian soldiers and rebels. But, the problem arose that, about a week after the release of the documentary, historians claimed that the Maxtopian armies killed all 45 @@DEMONYM@@ soldiers and the retired soldiers of those armies also gave proof of being alive, despite of being aged.


Firstly, the movie title is wrong. You cannot have a plural word precede a demonym, it is incorrect to do so. I'd either suggest "Immortal @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@: Braveness Never Dies" or "Immortals of @@NAME@@: Braveness Never Dies".

Secondly, it shouldn't be 'the problem arose that, about'. It should instead be 'the problem arose when about'.

Lastly, 'despite of being aged' is just grammatically incorrect. It should be 'despite being aged.
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Postby Queroquestan » Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:25 am

Khardsland wrote:Hey there, there are a few mistakes in the description which I have boldened for you.
Firstly, the movie title is wrong. You cannot have a plural word precede a demonym, it is incorrect to do so. I'd either suggest "Immortal @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@: Braveness Never Dies" or "Immortals of @@NAME@@: Braveness Never Dies".

Secondly, it shouldn't be 'the problem arose that, about'. It should instead be 'the problem arose when about'.

Lastly, 'despite of being aged' is just grammatically incorrect. It should be 'despite being aged.

Edited. Thanks! :clap:

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Postby Pacific Haven » Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:22 am

Some (actually very necessary) pedantry. It's a good concept, keep going with it.
The Issue

A historic documentary titled "Immortal @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@: Braveness Never Dies" was released a few weeks ago? some time ago for the rest to make sense, which showed that in the Battle of Red Ice that which happened more than 80 years ago, 45 @@DEMONYM@@ soldiers single-handedly defeated 5,000 Maxtopian soldiers and rebels. But, the problem arose when about a week after the release of the documentary, historians claimed that the Maxtopian armies killed all 45 @@DEMONYM@@ soldiers and the retired soldiers of those armies Maxtopian veterans also gave proof of being alive, despite being aged. were also discovered to be alive and well.

The Debate

1. "One minute." says @@RANDOMNAME@@ your brother? why would a random person be talking to LEADER?while pausing the movie trailer in on @@HIS@@ mobile. "I read somewhere that in the Battle of Red Ice, 5000 soldiers of Maxtopians Maxtopian soldiers had penetrated 500 km inside our border territory, then also destroyed many archive houses records in that area. In addition, Maxtopia had modern missiles and warplanes, due to[strike] because of which our old government buildings were destroyed, including the government archives [strike]houses. This shows that people are patriotic but do not want to know the dark truth of their country. I say that this film should be stopped and a law should be made which regulates the making of historical films. we should censor any new films which talk about our history."

nowadays filmmakers ask historians whether the Maxtopian soldier wore undergarments or not


2. "Now look." The director of the film ,@@RANDOMNAME@@, said. while handling the matter. “This is the fault of those historians and archaeologists, they did not investigate the history properly, nor did they formally say that they were investigating the history in depth. If this we had been told earlier, I would have never have made this film. @@LEADER@@, overall it is crystal-clear to methat this film should be aired, no matter how much any historian sticks his nose in."

@@DEMONYM@@ people are still believing believethat the reason behind their victory was that there were no bullets in the guns of Maxtopian army their army is invincible.
to someone without this issue the 'victory' would not be clear. other suggestions are welcome, i'm doing this quickly

3. "I completely agree with @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME1@@." Nodding yes, another historian @@RANDOMNAME@@ says, nodding his head vigorously. "I had also read somewhere that after our defeat in the Battle of Red Ice, our soldiers had made a new strategy and we were able to regain our lost territory ground. I am talking about a different war. The film should be made on this history, and the previous film should be deleted destroyed? pulled?. Also, we will destroy the archives of our country, where the bad histories of the country are written. So that, no one will read bad things about our country and the director DON'T make a film on it." historians don't geenrally want to destroy their own archives... something else has to be found

regular burning of dark truth containing archives darkened the sky of @@NATION@@ see above


4. "Now listen." General of the @@DEMONYM@@ Armed Forces @@RANDOMNAME@@ says while sipping tea after silencing everyone. "We don't care about whether people watch this film or not. But we can use it as a propaganda video. Just watch the trailer of this film, how our 45 brave fighters enter Maxtopia and kill all [strikethe jackals[/strike] those rascals! We will also show this trailer to the newly recruited soldiers, new recruits, so that patriotism can be awakened in their minds they are roused with patriotism and at the same time, we will show this trailer on our borders too, so that the neighboring countries do not even look at us."

the armies border guards (makes more sense) of neighboring countries are tired of watching the trailer again and again
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Postby Queroquestan » Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:05 am

Pacific Haven wrote:1. In addition, Maxtopia had modern missiles and warplanes, due to[strike] because of which our old government buildings were destroyed, including the government archives [strike]houses. This shows that people are patriotic but do not want to know the dark truth of their country. I say that this film should be stopped and a law should be made which regulates the making of historical films. we should censor any new films which talk about our history."

Can you explain it better, or strike out the bolded lines above at best?
Pacific Haven wrote:3. "I completely agree with @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME1@@." Nodding yes, another historian @@RANDOMNAME@@ says, nodding his head vigorously. "I had also read somewhere that after our defeat in the Battle of Red Ice, our soldiers had made a new strategy and we were able to regain our lost territory ground. I am talking about a different war. The film should be made on this history, and the previous film should be deleted destroyed? pulled?. Also, we will destroy the archives of our country, where the bad histories of the country are written. So that, no one will read bad things about our country and the director DON'T make a film on it." historians don't geenrally want to destroy their own archives... something else has to be found

regular burning of dark truth containing archives darkened the sky of @@NATION@@ see above

Suggest me a talking point for it. Your argument against the burning of own archives by historians is strong.

How it would be :- it has been seen many times that story-writers tear the pages of bad history?

Overall, I liked your suggestions. I have edited.
Last edited by Queroquestan on Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Pacific Haven » Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:08 am

Queroquestan wrote:
Pacific Haven wrote:1. In addition, Maxtopia had modern missiles and warplanes, due to[strike] because of which our old government buildings were destroyed, including the government archives [strike]houses. This shows that people are patriotic but do not want to know the dark truth of their country. I say that this film should be stopped and a law should be made which regulates the making of historical films. we should censor any new films which talk about our history."

Can you explain it better, or strike out the bolded lines above at best?
Pacific Haven wrote:3. "I completely agree with @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME1@@." Nodding yes, another historian @@RANDOMNAME@@ says, nodding his head vigorously. "I had also read somewhere that after our defeat in the Battle of Red Ice, our soldiers had made a new strategy and we were able to regain our lost territory ground. I am talking about a different war. The film should be made on this history, and the previous film should be deleted destroyed? pulled?. Also, we will destroy the archives of our country, where the bad histories of the country are written. So that, no one will read bad things about our country and the director DON'T make a film on it." historians don't geenrally want to destroy their own archives... something else has to be found

regular burning of dark truth containing archives darkened the sky of @@NATION@@ see above

Suggest me a talking point for it. Your argument against the burning of own archives by historians is strong.

How it would be :- it has been seen many times that story-writers tear the pages of bad history?

Overall, I liked your suggestions. I have edited.

"Government archive houses" isn't a real term, "government archives" is.

How it would be :- it has been seen many times that story-writers tear the pages of bad history

It's your issue, so I'll edit that- "there is no such thing as a creative license anymore". That's more issue-y.
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:27 am

Why is 80 year old propaganda causing this much of a fuss? Imagine now, WWII era propaganda still having any validity today
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Postby Pacific Haven » Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:31 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Why is 80 year old propaganda causing this much of a fuss? Imagine now, WWII era propaganda still having any validity today

It's a film about events 80 years ago, that was released recently, that's causing the issue
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Postby Queroquestan » Tue Dec 19, 2023 11:47 pm

Bring Up My Post, please!

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Postby Pacific Haven » Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:21 am

Never realised that's where 'bump' comes from
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Queroquestan » Thu Dec 21, 2023 2:40 am

If I have done here, then can I submit my issue? If so, then what to do first?

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