by Jolthig » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:23 pm
by Godular » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:32 pm
by Nyoskova » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:34 pm
by Jolthig » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:35 pm
Nyoskova wrote:I’m a pantheist.
by Jolthig » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:37 pm
Godular wrote:Look at it this way: If 'God' is the Cause of all the things, then all the things are their fault.
by The Aswaltican Imperium » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:38 pm
Godular wrote:Look at it this way: If 'God' is the Cause of all the things, then all the things are their fault.
by Order of Maesters » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:40 pm
by The Aswaltican Imperium » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:42 pm
Order of Maesters wrote:This just the cousin of the God of the Gaps fallacy
by Godular » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:42 pm
The Aswaltican Imperium wrote:Godular wrote:Look at it this way: If 'God' is the Cause of all the things, then all the things are their fault.
Correct! In Christianity, many people actually use it as motivation through their struggles. God (Hallowed be thy name) is omnipotent. He doesn’t say all Christians will live a life free of suffering, and in fact suggests they will face more challenges than the atheists.
If God never put suffering into the world, Jesus Christ, The Messiah would have not been able to pay for the world’s sins
And even if, that means people would only worship him because of the worldly joy.
by Cannot think of a name » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:47 pm
by Jolthig » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:47 pm
The Aswaltican Imperium wrote:Godular wrote:Look at it this way: If 'God' is the Cause of all the things, then all the things are their fault.
Correct! In Christianity, many people actually use it as motivation through their struggles. God (Hallowed be thy name) is omnipotent. He doesn’t say all Christians will live a life free of suffering, and in fact suggests they will face more challenges than the atheists.
If God never put suffering into the world, Jesus Christ, The Messiah would have not been able to pay for the world’s sins
And even if that was not the case, not having suffering would mean people would only worship him because of the worldly joy. At least most people.
by Order of Maesters » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:47 pm
by The Aswaltican Imperium » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:48 pm
Godular wrote:The Aswaltican Imperium wrote:
Correct! In Christianity, many people actually use it as motivation through their struggles. God (Hallowed be thy name) is omnipotent. He doesn’t say all Christians will live a life free of suffering, and in fact suggests they will face more challenges than the atheists.
If God never put suffering into the world, Jesus Christ, The Messiah would have not been able to pay for the world’s sins
And even if, that means people would only worship him because of the worldly joy.
By extension, Sin is God's fault too.
The point is that if God is the cause of all the things, then all these things that are bad are caused by God and thus cannot be the fault of us 'little people'. As such, why should we need forgiveness?
by Jolthig » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:50 pm
by Eahland » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:51 pm
by The Aswaltican Imperium » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:51 pm
by The Aswaltican Imperium » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:53 pm
Eahland wrote:This is just kicking the can down the road and then pretending that there is no more can. If God caused everything, what caused God? If God doesn't need a cause, why does whatever you're invoking God for need one? If what you're invoking God for actually needs a cause, what makes you think that cause is God?
As Ctoan points out, historically, every time we've figured out what caused something that people claimed that God did, it's turned out to be something that wasn't God.
by Order of Maesters » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:53 pm
by Order of Maesters » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:54 pm
The Aswaltican Imperium wrote:Eahland wrote:This is just kicking the can down the road and then pretending that there is no more can. If God caused everything, what caused God? If God doesn't need a cause, why does whatever you're invoking God for need one? If what you're invoking God for actually needs a cause, what makes you think that cause is God?
As Ctoan points out, historically, every time we've figured out what caused something that people claimed that God did, it's turned out to be something that wasn't God.
In the beginning, HE was. Maybe read the Bible?
by The Aswaltican Imperium » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:54 pm
Order of Maesters wrote:
Oh goodie, a washed out black and white photograph of a church wherein some hazy shape may or may not be divine intervention.
If you believe these, I have one really great one from a certain Loch in Scotland that's going to blow your mind.
by Cannot think of a name » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:54 pm
Jolthig wrote:No. What I am promoting is not a logical fallacy, and while many things have been discovered that have continuously disproved our erroneous way of thinking of the past, can we (or have we) disprove(d) infinity?
by Terra Magnifica Gloria » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:54 pm
by Eahland » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:55 pm
The Aswaltican Imperium wrote:Eahland wrote:This is just kicking the can down the road and then pretending that there is no more can. If God caused everything, what caused God? If God doesn't need a cause, why does whatever you're invoking God for need one? If what you're invoking God for actually needs a cause, what makes you think that cause is God?
As Ctoan points out, historically, every time we've figured out what caused something that people claimed that God did, it's turned out to be something that wasn't God.
In the beginning, HE was. Maybe read the Bible?
by The Aswaltican Imperium » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:55 pm
by Godular » Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:56 pm
The Aswaltican Imperium wrote:Godular wrote:
By extension, Sin is God's fault too.
The point is that if God is the cause of all the things, then all these things that are bad are caused by God and thus cannot be the fault of us 'little people'. As such, why should we need forgiveness?
This is not the case.
God is all knowing, but he isn’t what guides people to sin.
Satan is. But Satan (Lucifer) was once an angel made by God, so that is a defense against your argument.
This is very easily to debunk if you read Genesis, where Satan lead the humans to commit the first sin. If you for example use his name in vain right now, it is your choice. He just knows when you are going to do it. We need forgiveness because all has sinned as said in The Holy Bible, and that is because sin is from Lucifer (Satan). God is not at fault for this because it was Lucifer’s choice to rebel.
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