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The Galactic Empire's OFFICIAL Issue Improvement Forumn

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.
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The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2
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Posts: 51
Founded: Feb 18, 2023
Compulsory Consumerist State

The Galactic Empire's OFFICIAL Issue Improvement Forumn

Postby The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 » Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:55 am

NationStates,

Here is the underlying dilemma: After several attempts at drafting my own issues and receiving advice on them in the forums, I have come to the conclusion that I am terrible at writing issues, even with help. This will have to be a collaborative effort, for it to ever work.

The underlying game design: Myself and several others, attempting to run "free/fair/and robust democracies" have noticed that we all have to have a running "dismissal" rate of between ~22.5%-28% on any given month by our current estimations of issues. Sometimes less sometimes more, but the point stands. If we added more moderate, reasonable, issue options, to in-game issues and perhaps got the "dismissal" rate down to 13.5%-18%, this would be a lot more "fun" for us. As that would mean that there would be more "days" I.R.L. where we don't have to "dismiss" any issues at all in order to "play" the game, w/ an average of 4 "issues" per day.

How are a lot of this "dismissed" issues formatted?
As of now,: There are lots of issues with 3-4 options:
1) Extreme option A
2) Extreme option B in the opposite direction
3) The funny option
4) The totalitarian option

Now, I recognize there is a lot of speculation in the writing of this, my main proposition is as follows:

While I understand that having to "dismiss" issues, is entirely realistic, as the possible solution, may not have been presented at the time I.R.L.; To think, that one has the given solution to any issue, given by all advisors at present would be a foolish endeavor. BUT, many of us that want to run "realistic" nations, have less fun, due having to run such high dismissal rates. Perhaps, working together, we can add a 5th option to some of these issues, that adds a moderate, reasonable, answer choice formatted to fit the issues in question.

In this forum, if I choose to keep it updated, I'll list the issues I dismiss in my main, with potential moderate/reasonable solutions to the issue at hand, that I would have actually selected as an option to the question. This forum will largely just be a list of ideas, to peruse, for issue writers, if they so choose to update any of the currently accepted and run issues.

From my dealing with the issue editors on this site, many of them are extremely good at issue writing and editing, and present these types of issue options in most of the ones they accept and help people out with. I think this may just be a lack of personnel issue more than anything. From looking at the history of NationStates, I think several several hundred quality issues have been added in the last couple of years, by nearly just a handful of people. I just hope to make some contribution to this community and one of my favorite games.

the Galactic Emperor
Last edited by The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 on Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 16402
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Free Joy State » Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:05 am

The bar for adding new options to issues is exceedingly high.

Additional options are never added to issues for comprehensiveness.

The aim with issues is not to consider every possible angle; it is to tell a cohesive story.

If you think an individual issue has a fatal flaw, you would need to raise it in the Writer's Block, outlining the exact change you would like to make and how that would improve the player experience for the maximum number of players (you disliking an issue is not a reason), including a new option you want to add (if you want to see it, you've got to write it). If you receive positive feedback on the suggestion of adding a new option, then you may expand into your own thread for further community feedback.

Then, if you receive positive feedback on your proposed option, editors may take your proposed option backstage for further discussion (taking it backstage does not guarantee that a new option will be added).

Otherwise, if you want to see more of a certain type of issue, I suggest you write those issues.

P.S. GI is out-of-character
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Noahs Second Country
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 2013
Founded: Aug 31, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Noahs Second Country » Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:46 am

Beyond what Joy said, why is dismissing an issue so bad? If you're trying to be realistic and reasonable, ignoring an issue and maintaining the status quo is probably the most commonly picked option in real life by world leaders.

If you're seeking "fun", you're probably not being realistic. Leading a nation isn't all fun, sadly.
Last edited by Noahs Second Country on Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 51
Founded: Feb 18, 2023
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 » Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:44 am

The Free Joy State wrote:The bar for adding new options to issues is exceedingly high.

Additional options are never added to issues for comprehensiveness.

The aim with issues is not to consider every possible angle; it is to tell a cohesive story.

If you think an individual issue has a fatal flaw, you would need to raise it in the Writer's Block, outlining the exact change you would like to make and how that would improve the player experience for the maximum number of players (you disliking an issue is not a reason), including a new option you want to add (if you want to see it, you've got to write it). If you receive positive feedback on the suggestion of adding a new option, then you may expand into your own thread for further community feedback.

Then, if you receive positive feedback on your proposed option, editors may take your proposed option backstage for further discussion (taking it backstage does not guarantee that a new option will be added).

Otherwise, if you want to see more of a certain type of issue, I suggest you write those issues.

P.S. GI is out-of-character


To clarify, since I'm new to the forums (while not being new to the game):

1. Any of my postings about these types of issues, you do not want in this thread, you want them in this thread? viewtopic.php?f=13&t=159868
2. I need to outline the issue #, change to potentially be named, and why this helps our playerbase
3. If positive feedback, only then make its own individual thread
4. I would prefer to change the attitude of the community, to expand some issues for comprehensiveness, or at least have a discussion on the possibilities. If there is a long entrenched tradition here as to why this in impossible task, I am completely unaware as I am new; and even if I was previously aware of this I would rather attempt some at least positive changing the outlook on this point
5. I believe a cohesive story is better made told by expanding the possible angles
6. I have already said, as aforementioned, I am not that technically skilled in the writing department, and am far outclassed here by those who are. I humbly just hope to make some suggestions on the possible expansion of issue angles.
7. The leader of the Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 is: The Galactic Emperor, Emperor Moiknâm Okrûki Evronde, 1st Position, Elected General Council of 10. I fail to understand what you mean by out-of-character or what you mean to convey.
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The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2
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Posts: 51
Founded: Feb 18, 2023
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 » Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:53 am

Noahs Second Country wrote:Beyond what Joy said, why is dismissing an issue so bad? If you're trying to be realistic and reasonable, ignoring an issue and maintaining the status quo is probably the most commonly picked option in real life by world leaders.

If you're seeking "fun", you're probably not being realistic. Leading a nation isn't all fun, sadly.


I think that several people within the community who want a fair amount of "realism" and "reasonableness" are a bit turned off by how high of a dismissal rate you have to run. I agree that maintaining the status quo is quite often a common pick by IRL leaders.

BUT, the view of maintaining the status quo, could be understood to mean, going along with what happened in the prompt, rather than what the answer choices were, thus the issue being "dismissed" and status quo being maintained. BUT, what if I am not o.k. with what happened in the prompt, or any of the answer choices. What then is there to do, other then to peruse if the issue can possible be expanded while still fitting the narrative?

I think this game is very "fun". I think I would have quite a lot of "fun", leading an I.R.L. nation in any capacity, though probably more at the local level, like a Mayor. I think that leadership can be great fun given the right context, and a solid set of advisory bodies to bounce ideas off of. And what are these "answers" to issues? They could be seen to be our "advisory bodies". That is why I conclusively think I would have a bit more fun, should I have a few more of these advisory bodies, advising on some new more reasonable, realistic solutions, while still retaining all the wit and humor, that this wonderful game is known for.
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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 16402
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Free Joy State » Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:43 am

The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:The bar for adding new options to issues is exceedingly high.

Additional options are never added to issues for comprehensiveness.

The aim with issues is not to consider every possible angle; it is to tell a cohesive story.

If you think an individual issue has a fatal flaw, you would need to raise it in the Writer's Block, outlining the exact change you would like to make and how that would improve the player experience for the maximum number of players (you disliking an issue is not a reason), including a new option you want to add (if you want to see it, you've got to write it). If you receive positive feedback on the suggestion of adding a new option, then you may expand into your own thread for further community feedback.

Then, if you receive positive feedback on your proposed option, editors may take your proposed option backstage for further discussion (taking it backstage does not guarantee that a new option will be added).

Otherwise, if you want to see more of a certain type of issue, I suggest you write those issues.

P.S. GI is out-of-character


To clarify, since I'm new to the forums (while not being new to the game):

1. Any of my postings about these types of issues, you do not want in this thread, you want them in this thread? viewtopic.php?f=13&t=159868
2. I need to outline the issue #, change to potentially be named, and why this helps our playerbase
3. If positive feedback, only then make its own individual thread

Vague-posting does not help us. Specificity does.

This does not mean "naming" the change you want, this means writing it out. Only if the community in the Writer's Block is enthusiastic should you bring it to its own thread.

The FAQs outline this.

This is not an invitation to start bringing hundreds of issues to us, wanting to change them all. As I say, the barrier is very high.
4. I would prefer to change the attitude of the community, to expand some issues for comprehensiveness,
Not gonna happen.
5. I believe a cohesive story is better made told by expanding the possible angles
6. I have already said, as aforementioned, I am not that technically skilled in the writing department, and am far outclassed here by those who are. I humbly just hope to make some suggestions on the possible expansion of issue angles.
Not how it works.
7. The leader of the Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 is: The Galactic Emperor, Emperor Moiknâm Okrûki Evronde, 1st Position, Elected General Council of 10. I fail to understand what you mean by out-of-character or what you mean to convey.

We don't talk as our nations in GI; the name of your leader doesn't need to be included here.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

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The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 51
Founded: Feb 18, 2023
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 » Sun Dec 24, 2023 2:14 pm

The Free Joy State wrote:
The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 wrote:
To clarify, since I'm new to the forums (while not being new to the game):

1. Any of my postings about these types of issues, you do not want in this thread, you want them in this thread? viewtopic.php?f=13&t=159868
2. I need to outline the issue #, change to potentially be named, and why this helps our playerbase
3. If positive feedback, only then make its own individual thread

Vague-posting does not help us. Specificity does.

This does not mean "naming" the change you want, this means writing it out. Only if the community in the Writer's Block is enthusiastic should you bring it to its own thread.

The FAQs outline this.

This is not an invitation to start bringing hundreds of issues to us, wanting to change them all. As I say, the barrier is very high.
4. I would prefer to change the attitude of the community, to expand some issues for comprehensiveness,
Not gonna happen.
5. I believe a cohesive story is better made told by expanding the possible angles
6. I have already said, as aforementioned, I am not that technically skilled in the writing department, and am far outclassed here by those who are. I humbly just hope to make some suggestions on the possible expansion of issue angles.
Not how it works.
7. The leader of the Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 is: The Galactic Emperor, Emperor Moiknâm Okrûki Evronde, 1st Position, Elected General Council of 10. I fail to understand what you mean by out-of-character or what you mean to convey.

We don't talk as our nations in GI; the name of your leader doesn't need to be included here.


I agree with most points. I'd be surprised if I had more than a few fully framed suggestions even per week. If it were in the hundreds it would probably have to be over the course of years or maybe even a decade. I didn't know that GI was OOC, but I get that now.

Attitudes can change within communities, though the barrier is so high, this doesn't happen all that often.

A game of scripted writing is debatable as to how that writing is best done. What I don't understanding is what real life economic or social data is used to generate issue outcomes, though they seem to be fairly accurate, with the main limitations, being descript between a multi-layer government. For example, there are issues that would make sense to apply at a federal level or try out at a state level or even a local level first. Or perhaps the issue isn't even nation-wide in a country. I understand there are multi-government type classifications, but that would seem to be the main limitation of our simulation at the moment. (or perhaps further definement on governmental types, beyond the federal level listed at the top of each player's nation page, would lead to further refinement of issues and nations).

Have a Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays The Free Joy State
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Pacific Haven
Envoy
 
Posts: 283
Founded: Dec 14, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Pacific Haven » Sun Dec 24, 2023 2:27 pm

The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 wrote:While I understand that having to "dismiss" issues, is entirely realistic, as the possible solution, may not have been presented at the time I.R.L.; To think, that one has the given solution to any issue, given by all advisors at present would be a foolish endeavor. BUT, many of us that want to run "realistic" nations, have less fun, due having to run such high dismissal rates. Perhaps, working together, we can add a 5th option to some of these issues, that adds a moderate, reasonable, answer choice formatted to fit the issues in question.

Dismissing issues all the time is not realistic. In real life, if you find that an issue has no good options... that's how being a leader works. Sometimes, there are no good options. A "high dismissal rate" in real life would be denounced as "being out of touch", and you would be kicked out at the first opportunity.

I think that several people within the community who want a fair amount of "realism" and "reasonableness" are a bit turned off by how high of a dismissal rate you have to run. I agree that maintaining the status quo is quite often a common pick by IRL leaders.

They chose that high dismissal rate. And, since dismissing issues mean you suffer *no consequences whatsoever*, every time you dismiss an issue you are effectively taking out a magic wand and brainwashing the public into thinking that the issue never existed. If you think that's realistic... it's not.

BUT, the view of maintaining the status quo, could be understood to mean, going along with what happened in the prompt, rather than what the answer choices were, thus the issue being "dismissed" and status quo being maintained. BUT, what if I am not o.k. with what happened in the prompt, or any of the answer choices. What then is there to do, other then to peruse if the issue can possible be expanded while still fitting the narrative?

Sometimes, in real life, you *aren't* okay with the prompt, or the options. Tough luck. You run a country, sometimes there are no good options. Nothing you can do about that except choose the least bad option.

To put it less cynically... your advisors are there to advise you. Now most leaders aren't experts on labour rights, healthcare, tax laws and more. Usually, if an option isn't there, it's because it wouldn't be allowed in real life.

I think that leadership can be great fun

If you expect every single issue that you get to be fun and amusing, think again. You're an actual leader, you have to make serious choices sometimes. Some of them are fun, some aren't. That's how it works.

while still retaining all the wit and humor

You want a realistic simulation of politics? Politics isn't witty and humorous, it affects actual lives.

I know issues have to be funny and satirical too- but in-character, if I was the leader of the Pacific Haven, I would not be thinking, "Ha, this is the perfect joke on real-world politics right now!", I'd be thinking, "There's a natural disaster next to a prison, help me!"... That's what you get if you want to be realistic and in-character.
Last edited by Pacific Haven on Sun Dec 24, 2023 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Commonwealth of the Pacific Haven
"For the Pacific People"

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The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 51
Founded: Feb 18, 2023
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 » Mon Dec 25, 2023 10:51 am

Pacific Haven wrote:
The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 wrote:While I understand that having to "dismiss" issues, is entirely realistic, as the possible solution, may not have been presented at the time I.R.L.; To think, that one has the given solution to any issue, given by all advisors at present would be a foolish endeavor. BUT, many of us that want to run "realistic" nations, have less fun, due having to run such high dismissal rates. Perhaps, working together, we can add a 5th option to some of these issues, that adds a moderate, reasonable, answer choice formatted to fit the issues in question.

Dismissing issues all the time is not realistic. In real life, if you find that an issue has no good options... that's how being a leader works. Sometimes, there are no good options. A "high dismissal rate" in real life would be denounced as "being out of touch", and you would be kicked out at the first opportunity.

I think that several people within the community who want a fair amount of "realism" and "reasonableness" are a bit turned off by how high of a dismissal rate you have to run. I agree that maintaining the status quo is quite often a common pick by IRL leaders.

They chose that high dismissal rate. And, since dismissing issues mean you suffer *no consequences whatsoever*, every time you dismiss an issue you are effectively taking out a magic wand and brainwashing the public into thinking that the issue never existed. If you think that's realistic... it's not.

BUT, the view of maintaining the status quo, could be understood to mean, going along with what happened in the prompt, rather than what the answer choices were, thus the issue being "dismissed" and status quo being maintained. BUT, what if I am not o.k. with what happened in the prompt, or any of the answer choices. What then is there to do, other then to peruse if the issue can possible be expanded while still fitting the narrative?






Sometimes, in real life, you *aren't* okay with the prompt, or the options. Tough luck. You run a country, sometimes there are no good options. Nothing you can do about that except choose the least bad option.

To put it less cynically... your advisors are there to advise you. Now most leaders aren't experts on labour rights, healthcare, tax laws and more. Usually, if an option isn't there, it's because it wouldn't be allowed in real life.

I think that leadership can be great fun

If you expect every single issue that you get to be fun and amusing, think again. You're an actual leader, you have to make serious choices sometimes. Some of them are fun, some aren't. That's how it works.

while still retaining all the wit and humor

You want a realistic simulation of politics? Politics isn't witty and humorous, it affects actual lives.

I know issues have to be funny and satirical too- but in-character, if I was the leader of the Pacific Haven, I would not be thinking, "Ha, this is the perfect joke on real-world politics right now!", I'd be thinking, "There's a natural disaster next to a prison, help me!"... That's what you get if you want to be realistic and in-character.


Hi Pacific Haven,

Historically I do not reply to non-fully developed nations on the forumns. Fully-developed here is seen to mean minimum 750-1.5 billion population with fully developed accompanying statistics and possible lore/or regional custom and law explanations in the FACTBOOK section.


This is due to the presence of flame-baiting on this site. Users create new accounts which are throwaways, with different emails from their mains, going on the forumns, tempting others into merely flame-based arguements attempting to get moderation to intervene on both parties, and possibly getting the opposing party banned or having litigation brought against them. For this reason, I personally have this policy to avoid flame-baiting argumentation.

If you argue you do not have a nation with the accompanying requirements, my answer is simple: I will wait until it does. There is no situation upon which I will probably reverse this policy in the future, as I am here to improve the game and not engage in circular logic. If you fail to want to engage in this manner, I will simply not engage. There are plenty of other users on this site who will engage with you.

Have a very Merry Christmas Pacific Haven
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Pacific Haven
Envoy
 
Posts: 283
Founded: Dec 14, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Pacific Haven » Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:40 am

The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 wrote:snip

You're the first country who has automatically assumed that someone is flamebaiting because of their *checks notes* population. You would've thought that maybe... the content of the post... has something to do with flamebaiting, but whatever. And personally a user with nine posts is probably just as likely to be a flamebaiter... but I'm not going to copy you.

I honestly have no opinion on your... unique rules on engagement. My point stands, regardless of whatever you think of it- I, too, am allowed an opinion!

If the only people who have responded to your "official forumn [sic]" have been advising you to look elsewhere... that suggests something about your chances of success.

[Edit: Also, for God's sake lose the patronising tone. It's made it EXTREMELY annoying for me to respond to your post in good faith. Nobody here likes/is able to have a normal conversation with someone who acts as if they're superior to people around them. Can you please have a good faith conversation without acting so condescending? You have nine posts, your only contribution thus far has been shot down, try to improve on your idea rather than avoid my points.]

Good luck in your future endeavours. Merry Christmas.
Last edited by Pacific Haven on Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Commonwealth of the Pacific Haven
"For the Pacific People"

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The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 51
Founded: Feb 18, 2023
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 » Mon Dec 25, 2023 12:34 pm

Pacific Haven wrote:
The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 wrote:snip

You're the first country who has automatically assumed that someone is flamebaiting because of their *checks notes* population. You would've thought that maybe... the content of the post... has something to do with flamebaiting, but whatever. And personally a user with nine posts is probably just as likely to be a flamebaiter... but I'm not going to copy you.

I honestly have no opinion on your... unique rules on engagement. My point stands, regardless of whatever you think of it- I, too, am allowed an opinion!

If the only people who have responded to your "official forumn [sic]" have been advising you to look elsewhere... that suggests something about your chances of success.

[Edit: Also, for God's sake lose the patronising tone. It's made it EXTREMELY annoying for me to respond to your post in good faith. Nobody here likes/is able to have a normal conversation with someone who acts as if they're superior to people around them. Can you please have a good faith conversation without acting so condescending? You have nine posts, your only contribution thus far has been shot down, try to improve on your idea rather than avoid my points.]

Good luck in your future endeavours. Merry Christmas.


I see what you are saying. The problem is I have no idea who I'm actually talking to. The people who lead this site are all borderline professional lawyers. I have to talk this way if this is the type of conversation. Are you you? Or are you The Free Joy State or Noahs Second Country on an alt? I have to relegate all leading discussion points as if I am talking to the highest level of authority on the website until proven otherwise. I would agree with you, but every idea I propose, gets immediately shot down and met with heavy skepticism until any amount of evidence points in the leading direction.
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United Calanworie
Technical Moderator
 
Posts: 3391
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby United Calanworie » Mon Dec 25, 2023 1:42 pm

The Galactic Empire of Zimbabwae2 wrote:
Pacific Haven wrote:Dismissing issues all the time is not realistic. In real life, if you find that an issue has no good options... that's how being a leader works. Sometimes, there are no good options. A "high dismissal rate" in real life would be denounced as "being out of touch", and you would be kicked out at the first opportunity.


They chose that high dismissal rate. And, since dismissing issues mean you suffer *no consequences whatsoever*, every time you dismiss an issue you are effectively taking out a magic wand and brainwashing the public into thinking that the issue never existed. If you think that's realistic... it's not.







Sometimes, in real life, you *aren't* okay with the prompt, or the options. Tough luck. You run a country, sometimes there are no good options. Nothing you can do about that except choose the least bad option.

To put it less cynically... your advisors are there to advise you. Now most leaders aren't experts on labour rights, healthcare, tax laws and more. Usually, if an option isn't there, it's because it wouldn't be allowed in real life.


If you expect every single issue that you get to be fun and amusing, think again. You're an actual leader, you have to make serious choices sometimes. Some of them are fun, some aren't. That's how it works.


You want a realistic simulation of politics? Politics isn't witty and humorous, it affects actual lives.

I know issues have to be funny and satirical too- but in-character, if I was the leader of the Pacific Haven, I would not be thinking, "Ha, this is the perfect joke on real-world politics right now!", I'd be thinking, "There's a natural disaster next to a prison, help me!"... That's what you get if you want to be realistic and in-character.


Hi Pacific Haven,

Historically I do not reply to non-fully developed nations on the forumns. Fully-developed here is seen to mean minimum 750-1.5 billion population with fully developed accompanying statistics and possible lore/or regional custom and law explanations in the FACTBOOK section.


This is due to the presence of flame-baiting on this site. Users create new accounts which are throwaways, with different emails from their mains, going on the forumns, tempting others into merely flame-based arguements attempting to get moderation to intervene on both parties, and possibly getting the opposing party banned or having litigation brought against them. For this reason, I personally have this policy to avoid flame-baiting argumentation.

If you argue you do not have a nation with the accompanying requirements, my answer is simple: I will wait until it does. There is no situation upon which I will probably reverse this policy in the future, as I am here to improve the game and not engage in circular logic. If you fail to want to engage in this manner, I will simply not engage. There are plenty of other users on this site who will engage with you.

Have a very Merry Christmas Pacific Haven

Nope. This earns you both a *** warning for flamebaiting *** and a *** warning for bad faith. ***
Trans rights are human rights.
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