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Is the "American Empire" having a downfall?

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The Vizier
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Is the "American Empire" having a downfall?

Postby The Vizier » Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:14 pm

In recent years I'll say that most people have probably just been thinking about, "Has this world gone to waste", or something along those lines. Now, a lot of people I've seen have blamed America, along with that their influence in places like Africa, the Middle East, Asia and South America, or 'The Global South', have seen an apparent decline in trade, diplomacy and influence in international affairs. It's clear that the 'American Empire' may see a clear decline in the following decades.

In my opinion, yes, and it will continue to lose its power. I personally think that it will likely either result in a cold war scenario, a world war, or a slow demise of its influence returning to a secondary power (in global politics, in North America, I think it'll remain dominate).

Anyways, I'll love to hear your opinions.
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:18 pm

America is still the strongest nation in the world at this point given the amount of military bases they have in various countries. Many of which surround her enemies, Russia with the NATO nations, and then China with Japan, South Korea, and potentially Vietnam. They're going pretty strong at this point although there are also signs of some decline. Internally anyway. The national debt is ridiculously high as everyone knows.

With the rise of China, America is threatened but her dominance remains.
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Almighty Biden
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Postby Almighty Biden » Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:34 pm

the Empire is collapsing because weve been pretending to be a democracy make me Supreme Imperial Lifetime Lord Emperor Extreme (SILLEE for short) and I will bring glory to our nation. we must ban the republicans and make sure the democrat party is the only legal political party for the sake of the empire because i am the democrat party. i will abolish congress and pack the supreme courts lunchboxes with fried baloney sandwiches we will then initiate the Canschluss in which the English speaking nations of north america canada, america, belize, and panama are united into one glorious homeland. we will then seize nicaragua and build a canal through it. bats will be forced to wearmasks in order to stop the spread of covid19 and donald trump aka "The Batman"TM will be exiled to Russia because its a yuge country. we will bomb florida into oblivion and drive its populace underground, renaming it District 27. our first imperial conquest will be greenland because of global warming, which we will name whiteland because its not green. if Denmark complains we will send them danishes as a sign of peace if they still dont accept we will conquer them and rename it Demark after the glorius Party.

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Order of Maesters
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Postby Order of Maesters » Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:53 pm

America still has the power to turn any nation on this planet to glass.

Externally, its supremacy is being challenged by a rising China but it will be some time before we will know whether that particular challenger will actually manifest itself into a threat or collapse under the inexorable demographic math it faces.

Thr greatest challenge America faces is domestic. A divided population, a broken political system, an education system laughable by other developed standards, immense disparity in wealth distribution and social justice, and to name just a few.
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Postby Picairn » Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:01 am

It took a world war to unseat Great Britain's superpower status, and another to completely bankrupt it and turn it into a second-rate power.

Until WW3 happens US hegemony will remain secure. China may be a serious threat economically but not really militarily or even diplomatically. It has backed itself into a corner by pissing off every neighbour with island and border disputes, which is just a free gift to the US.
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The Vizier
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Postby The Vizier » Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:14 am

Picairn wrote:It took a world war to unseat Great Britain's superpower status, and another to completely bankrupt it and turn it into a second-rate power.

Until WW3 happens US hegemony will remain secure. China may be a serious threat economically but not really militarily or even diplomatically. It has backed itself into a corner by pissing off every neighbour with island and border disputes, which is just a free gift to the US.

I agree with you. However, I think the greatest chance the US has would be to focus internally, while china would have to repair their ties and grow with either Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines at minimum and slowly grow more stronger ties with Africa and south America
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Querria
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Postby Querria » Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:22 am

The Vizier wrote:In recent years I'll say that most people have probably just been thinking about, "Has this world gone to waste", or something along those lines. Now, a lot of people I've seen have blamed America, along with that their influence in places like Africa, the Middle East, Asia and South America, or 'The Global South', have seen an apparent decline in trade, diplomacy and influence in international affairs. It's clear that the 'American Empire' may see a clear decline in the following decades.

In my opinion, yes, and it will continue to lose its power. I personally think that it will likely either result in a cold war scenario, a world war, or a slow demise of its influence returning to a secondary power (in global politics, in North America, I think it'll remain dominate).

Anyways, I'll love to hear your opinions.


The subtle message underneath this is either "I got conned by my college into paying to listen to some baked professor's political rants" or "I watched a youtube or tiktok video posted by a nutcase." Of course this is NS, so it could also be "I got manipulated by extremists".
Last edited by Querria on Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Vizier
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Postby The Vizier » Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:30 am

Querria wrote:
The Vizier wrote:In recent years I'll say that most people have probably just been thinking about, "Has this world gone to waste", or something along those lines. Now, a lot of people I've seen have blamed America, along with that their influence in places like Africa, the Middle East, Asia and South America, or 'The Global South', have seen an apparent decline in trade, diplomacy and influence in international affairs. It's clear that the 'American Empire' may see a clear decline in the following decades.

In my opinion, yes, and it will continue to lose its power. I personally think that it will likely either result in a cold war scenario, a world war, or a slow demise of its influence returning to a secondary power (in global politics, in North America, I think it'll remain dominate).

Anyways, I'll love to hear your opinions.


The subtle message underneath this is either "I got conned by my college into paying to listen to some baked professor's political rants" or "I watched a youtube or tiktok video posted by a nutcase." Of course this is NS, so it could also be "I got manipulated by extremists".

Maybe the first
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Simonia
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Postby Simonia » Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:11 am

I think the USA is still going to be extremely powerful in the near future. Unless it invades too many nations, of course, but that will be a huge number (100 maybe?). They've already invaded many nations, but at the same time has brainwashed some nations to like them. Maybe they'll come to their senses and the USA will finally be condemned. But then China will rise to the podium. And the “Chinese Empire” will probably have a downfall. But since every empire has a downfall, the “American Empire” will have a downfall. At some point. Nobody knows when.
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Postby Page » Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:50 am

We're headed for a definitively multi-polar world, but I don't think there will be anything like total Chinese hegemony within the next century. After, maybe.
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Postby Jolthig » Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:54 am

Page wrote:We're headed for a definitively multi-polar world, but I don't think there will be anything like total Chinese hegemony within the next century. After, maybe.

Yeah, China lacks soft power, let alone hard power, being that they only have a base in a single country outside of itself in Djibouti.

Perhaps if China switched its system, they might be able to have better soft power. The Tao faith has attracted some and I follow some YouTube channels that discuss it.
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Postby Almighty Biden » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:07 am

Jolthig wrote:
Page wrote:We're headed for a definitively multi-polar world, but I don't think there will be anything like total Chinese hegemony within the next century. After, maybe.

Yeah, China lacks soft power, let alone hard power, being that they only have a base in a single country outside of itself in Djibouti.

Perhaps if China switched its system, they might be able to have better soft power. The Tao faith has attracted some and I follow some YouTube channels that discuss it.

i thought the chinese were commies?
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:10 am

Almighty Biden wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Yeah, China lacks soft power, let alone hard power, being that they only have a base in a single country outside of itself in Djibouti.

Perhaps if China switched its system, they might be able to have better soft power. The Tao faith has attracted some and I follow some YouTube channels that discuss it.

i thought the chinese were commies?

They are, but I'm saying if the Chinese somehow changed their government (and as long as they stay stable), I believe it's possible, they could have stronger soft power.
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Postby Floofybit » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:25 am

There will never be one. America can never fall.
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Durius
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Postby Durius » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:10 am

I very much doubt it. Excluding very quick collapses that are very hard to predict, I would say that the American "Empire" can very much survive for a while longer and has very good chances of outlasting current competing empires such as Russia or China.

That being said, it's very much a fact that American hegemony is being challenged. The American built world order is deteriorating and might collapse: we are seeing the effects of such in the form of increased global instability. I think America can very much survive that collapse, in fact, depending on how things go, they can even strengthen. Even if they fall to do so, I have very little doubt that America will keep having an important, even if diminished, voice in global affairs.

I do expect, though, that many weaker countries to be caught in the crossfire and collapse, either engulfed by proxy wars, consumed by internal instability or riddled with economic and climate crisis that they cannot tackle. If the power balance favors autocratic regimes and their unilateralism, we might even see (though I don't welcome that at all) a retreat of democracy, the dismantlement of global institutions, and a return to an era of divide and conquer in international politics, perhaps ironically destroying the strength of the global south.

Well, it's very hard to predict, but it's rather clear to me that the main and most likely victims of the shifting geopolitics will be the weak unaligned or the superfluous allies, not the US or China themselves.

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Postby Stellar Colonies » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:38 am

The US will probably go from the overwhelming leader to a nation amongst peers, but it'll probably retain a lot of global influence for a great deal of time. Might still remain the leading power through much of the 21st century.

There would need to be a black swan event which existentially breaks the US to change that, which is not very likely. It's going through a rough patch which is eroding its hegemony but the country isn't exactly going anywhere.
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Sat Dec 02, 2023 1:10 pm

I see OP watches Second Thought.
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Postby Fresola » Sat Dec 02, 2023 3:36 pm

No. America still holds the power to make any nation fall or reduce it to a handful of guerrillas. I think we could see that even People's Liberation Army occupation is having a spectacularly bad episode when it comes to foreign relations and the "Communist Chinese Empire" that barely existed is coming to a close through it's demographic crisis, but America is facing yet another unpopularity schism, including the Gaza-Israel conflict. I don't think this is gonna have too much of a stain on the permanent legacy of America, and something absolutely revolutionary (in the sense things would change a bunch) would have to happen.
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Postby The Selkie » Sat Dec 02, 2023 3:48 pm

History teaches us, that every Empire will fall one day.
Even if we assume, that the US as we know it today is an Empire in the widest sense of the world, it will fall one day.
This day is far in the future, however. Yes, the US has its issues, we should not deny that, but at the height of its power, in 9 AD, Rome lost three Legions to a bunch of savages in the Germanic Forests. Rome continued to be the world leading power (in as far as you can say it in antiquity) for about two centuries to follow, until the death of Marcus Aurelius, and, if we do the funky and call upon the good, ol' Byzantines, continued to exist until 1453.
Empires tend to have a lot of staying power.
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Second Dimetrodon Empire
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Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:51 pm

Querria wrote:
The Vizier wrote:In recent years I'll say that most people have probably just been thinking about, "Has this world gone to waste", or something along those lines. Now, a lot of people I've seen have blamed America, along with that their influence in places like Africa, the Middle East, Asia and South America, or 'The Global South', have seen an apparent decline in trade, diplomacy and influence in international affairs. It's clear that the 'American Empire' may see a clear decline in the following decades.

In my opinion, yes, and it will continue to lose its power. I personally think that it will likely either result in a cold war scenario, a world war, or a slow demise of its influence returning to a secondary power (in global politics, in North America, I think it'll remain dominate).

Anyways, I'll love to hear your opinions.


The subtle message underneath this is either "I got conned by my college into paying to listen to some baked professor's political rants" or "I watched a youtube or tiktok video posted by a nutcase." Of course this is NS, so it could also be "I got manipulated by extremists".


I think he watched a Second Thought video, who made a similar claim recently.

Despite the right-wing narrative, professors do not spew far-left propaganda and call it a lecture.

Soviet Haaregrad wrote:I see OP watches Second Thought.


Second Thought lost me when he just simps for any regime that is not aligned with the U.S.. He falsely thinks everyone who opposes the U.S. is good.

As far as the claim that we're collapsing, he probably is right on that specific issue, though anyone could have told us that. He is wrong though that China would be a better replacement for the U.S. though, since both powers are motivated by similar desires.
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Postby Dtn » Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:57 pm

The Selkie wrote:History teaches us, that every Empire will fall one day.
Even if we assume, that the US as we know it today is an Empire in the widest sense of the world, it will fall one day.
This day is far in the future, however. Yes, the US has its issues, we should not deny that, but at the height of its power, in 9 AD, Rome lost three Legions to a bunch of savages in the Germanic Forests. Rome continued to be the world leading power (in as far as you can say it in antiquity) for about two centuries to follow, until the death of Marcus Aurelius, and, if we do the funky and call upon the good, ol' Byzantines, continued to exist until 1453.
Empires tend to have a lot of staying power.


Not really.

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Kaumudeen
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Postby Kaumudeen » Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:04 pm

Externally they are still very strong, internally its disintegrating slowly. Hopefully they tear each other apart since it's karma.
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Postby Benuty » Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:06 pm

Jolthig wrote:America is still the strongest nation in the world at this point given the amount of military bases they have in various countries. Many of which surround her enemies, Russia with the NATO nations, and then China with Japan, South Korea, and potentially Vietnam. They're going pretty strong at this point although there are also signs of some decline. Internally anyway. The national debt is ridiculously high as everyone knows.

With the rise of China, America is threatened but her dominance remains.

The problem is in my opinion a severe disconnect is growing between the political and military sectors. The military is not meeting its recruitment goals, has a budget that has parts straight up disappear, and the Pentagon is trying to figure out what to do about climate change. Meanwhile, the political structure is becoming akin to something we criticized the Soviets for 40 years ago (a Gerontocracy), and parts of it are openly trying to gut the government from the top down. The parts trying to do genuine good are often hamfisted by people who either lie or straight up admit their intent to cause trouble.

If we don't fix these issues that dominance will fall.
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:07 pm

Kaumudeen wrote:Externally they are still very strong, internally its disintegrating slowly. Hopefully they tear each other apart since it's karma.

Not a good thing to wish for what might be the largest potential humanitarian crisis on the planet.
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Imperial Haiti
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Postby Imperial Haiti » Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:10 pm

Fresola wrote:No. America still holds the power to make any nation fall or reduce it to a handful of guerrillas. I think we could see that even People's Liberation Army occupation is having a spectacularly bad episode when it comes to foreign relations and the "Communist Chinese Empire" that barely existed is coming to a close through it's demographic crisis, but America is facing yet another unpopularity schism, including the Gaza-Israel conflict. I don't think this is gonna have too much of a stain on the permanent legacy of America, and something absolutely revolutionary (in the sense things would change a bunch) would have to happen.


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