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Culture wars: Protect the Children?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should parents have the right to opt their children out of certain lessons they find objectionable?

Yes, parents should have the freedom to protect their children from exposure to materials that conflict with their cultural or religious beliefs.
41
23%
No, educational institutions should provide a standardized curriculum, and parents should not have the right to selectively opt their children out of specific lessons or materials.
46
26%
Partially, parents should have the option to voice concerns, but the final decision should be made by a committee representing diverse perspectives, including educators, parents, and community members.
54
31%
It depends on the nature of the objectionable material; parents should be allowed to opt out only if the content is explicitly against their cultural or religious beliefs and could potentially harm their child's well-being.
36
20%
 
Total votes : 177

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Galmat
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Culture wars: Protect the Children?

Postby Galmat » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:41 am

One of the hotly contested issues in recent times has been the push for banning books or restricting certain educational materials deemed objectionable based on cultural, religious, or moral grounds. This censorship often intersects with topics that challenge societal norms or present uncomfortable truths. The question arises: Should the truth be taught, even if it offends?

When we discuss protecting children in the realm of education, we must confront the balance between safeguarding young minds from potentially harmful content and ensuring they are exposed to diverse perspectives, even those that may provoke discomfort. Books and educational topics deemed controversial often delve into the complexities of history, society, and human experiences. However, some argue that shielding children from these challenging narratives could limit their understanding of the world and impede critical thinking.

Consider the banning of books like "To Kill a Mockingbird," "The Bluest Eye," or even discussions on topics like racial history, LGBTQ+ issues, or religious ideologies. While some may find these subjects uncomfortable or contradictory to their beliefs, there's a bigger question at play: Should educational institutions prioritize sheltering children from discomfort over imparting a detailed understanding of reality?

In my view, truth, even if it challenges societal norms or beliefs, should be at the forefront of education. Shielding children from uncomfortable realities may provide temporary comfort, but it hampers their ability to navigate an increasingly diverse and complex world. Instead of censorship, fostering an environment that encourages open dialogue, critical thinking, and respectful discourse can equip children to engage thoughtfully with differing viewpoints.


What are your thoughts on this issue? Do you believe that controversial topics should be omitted from education to protect children, or should truth take precedence, even if it may be offensive to some?
Last edited by Galmat on Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Second Dimetrodon Empire
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Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:45 am

This culture war started by the right is to erase minorities and the LGBTQ+ communities from the public eye. So the truth should be taught and none of these baninngs are really to protect children.
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Pale Dawn
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Postby Pale Dawn » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:49 am

If banning books actually meant removing them from the reach of the public instead of not freely disseminating the material I would disagree. As it is I can go to any town and hand out copies of the Bible or any other book supporting any other belief system meaning no subject is unreachable. Banning books doesn't prohibit people from finding or reading them. But public institutions that are funded by their communities are not ever expansive and able to hold all the books under the moon, so it reasons that choices will always be made and it makes sense to me that the choices take the values and culture of the supporting community that support the institution through their taxes.
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If we are doing military comparisons, I have different tech levels, so just match whatever your nation is to the appropriate level. If you are PT, imagine a set redneck guerilla warbands fighting so that their families aren't wiped out by famine and raiders. My goal in this is to be able to line myself up against any nations (along their timeline and tech level) whether they are based in 1974 or 80859. As such the numbers from PMT on are a bit soft. Those looking at our culture are stuck with MT timeline but I am building it out more. And for those who don't want to see factbooks, stats are not cannon. Policies are.

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Galmat
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Postby Galmat » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:49 am

Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:This culture war started by the right is to erase minorities and the LGBTQ+ communities from the public eye. So the truth should be taught and none of these baninngs are really to protect children.

Agreed, if anything, most schools don't teach much in terms of sex education. Honestly, 'Perfectly Normal' taught me way more than that cheesy presentation about puberty in fifth grade. Sex ed at school never taught me that gay people exist or about those who don't conform to gender standards. I could have saved years of searching and finding my identity. I only hope that the next generation does not have to deal with the same.
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Galmat
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Postby Galmat » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:52 am

Pale Dawn wrote:If banning books actually meant removing them from the reach of the public instead of not freely disseminating the material I would disagree. As it is I can go to any town and hand out copies of the Bible or any other book supporting any other belief system meaning no subject is unreachable. Banning books doesn't prohibit people from finding or reading them. But public institutions that are funded by their communities are not ever expansive and able to hold all the books under the moon, so it reasons that choices will always be made and it makes sense to me that the choices take the values and culture of the supporting community that support the institution through their taxes.

But a vast majority of parents across America are against these so called "Moral Crusades" mostly in part because the whole thing is mostly a sham.

Even so, My question to you is, what if the community found Math or a field of Science objectionable? Is there still a right for it to be taught or read about?
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Port Carverton
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Postby Port Carverton » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:53 am

We could just implement school choice through charter schools and let parents decide which school their kids go to.

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Pale Dawn
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Postby Pale Dawn » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:55 am

Galmat wrote:
Pale Dawn wrote:If banning books actually meant removing them from the reach of the public instead of not freely disseminating the material I would disagree. As it is I can go to any town and hand out copies of the Bible or any other book supporting any other belief system meaning no subject is unreachable. Banning books doesn't prohibit people from finding or reading them. But public institutions that are funded by their communities are not ever expansive and able to hold all the books under the moon, so it reasons that choices will always be made and it makes sense to me that the choices take the values and culture of the supporting community that support the institution through their taxes.

But a vast majority of parents across America are against these so called "Moral Crusades" mostly in part because the whole thing is mostly a sham.

Even so, My question to you is, what if the community found Math or a field of Science objectionable? Is there still a right for it to be taught or read about?


In what kind of community do you imagine a majority of parents opting their kids out of science and math?

Where is the sham?
Last edited by Pale Dawn on Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
From The Ash We tower - I made this. So...here
If we are doing military comparisons, I have different tech levels, so just match whatever your nation is to the appropriate level. If you are PT, imagine a set redneck guerilla warbands fighting so that their families aren't wiped out by famine and raiders. My goal in this is to be able to line myself up against any nations (along their timeline and tech level) whether they are based in 1974 or 80859. As such the numbers from PMT on are a bit soft. Those looking at our culture are stuck with MT timeline but I am building it out more. And for those who don't want to see factbooks, stats are not cannon. Policies are.

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Galmat
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Postby Galmat » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:57 am

Pale Dawn wrote:
Galmat wrote:But a vast majority of parents across America are against these so called "Moral Crusades" mostly in part because the whole thing is mostly a sham.

Even so, My question to you is, what if the community found Math or a field of Science objectionable? Is there still a right for it to be taught or read about?


In what kind of community do you imagine a majority of parents opting their kids out of science and math?

Any Conservative majority town would certainly be against either Evolution, Sex Ed, or Human Anatomy just to list a few.
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Judas said to him, "I know who you are and where you've come from. You've come from the immortal realm of Barbelo" (The Gospel Of Judas)
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Pale Dawn
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Postby Pale Dawn » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:59 am

Galmat wrote:
Pale Dawn wrote:
In what kind of community do you imagine a majority of parents opting their kids out of science and math?

Any Conservative majority town would certainly be against either Evolution, Sex Ed, or Human Anatomy just to list a few.


Parents should have the right to teach sex ed should they see the State as being unfit to provide a proper education.

I would like to see examples of parents requesting the removal of evolution and human anatomy from the curriculum.
From The Ash We tower - I made this. So...here
If we are doing military comparisons, I have different tech levels, so just match whatever your nation is to the appropriate level. If you are PT, imagine a set redneck guerilla warbands fighting so that their families aren't wiped out by famine and raiders. My goal in this is to be able to line myself up against any nations (along their timeline and tech level) whether they are based in 1974 or 80859. As such the numbers from PMT on are a bit soft. Those looking at our culture are stuck with MT timeline but I am building it out more. And for those who don't want to see factbooks, stats are not cannon. Policies are.

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Postby Earthbound Immortal Squad » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:59 am

Port Carverton wrote:We could just implement school choice through charter schools and let parents decide which school their kids go to.


That's one step away from segregation. That might make people happy in the short term but it'll only lead to long term problems with an almost tribal system of people only grouping together based on opinion. (Which is happening a lot in the western world already).

Also who wanted to ban To Kill A Mocking Bird? That was a great book.
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Postby Osmauri » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:01 am

Galmat wrote:
Pale Dawn wrote:
In what kind of community do you imagine a majority of parents opting their kids out of science and math?

Any Conservative majority town would certainly be against either Evolution, Sex Ed, or Human Anatomy just to list a few.

None of that says "banning math" to me, though it'd certainly be a useful way to efficiently scam people if they can't do basic arithmetic anymore.
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Galmat
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Postby Galmat » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:02 am

Pale Dawn wrote:
Galmat wrote:But a vast majority of parents across America are against these so called "Moral Crusades" mostly in part because the whole thing is mostly a sham.

Even so, My question to you is, what if the community found Math or a field of Science objectionable? Is there still a right for it to be taught or read about?


In what kind of community do you imagine a majority of parents opting their kids out of science and math?

Where is the sham?

The sham part of it is that it's a proxy war to protect the personal opinions and beliefs of the parents rather than shielding children from actually inappropriate content. Here, we have parents concerned about teenagers at an appropriate age reading an educational novel about sex, while preteens and children are exposed to gore at a young age. Why don't I hear complaints about that? It's just another moral panic, another mass hysteria that wants to wipe away the LGBTQ community, wipe away the evidence of systemic racism, and to defend the interests of those in power.
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Galmat
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Postby Galmat » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:05 am

Osmauri wrote:
Galmat wrote:Any Conservative majority town would certainly be against either Evolution, Sex Ed, or Human Anatomy just to list a few.

None of that says "banning math" to me, though it'd certainly be a useful way to efficiently scam people if they can't do basic arithmetic anymore.

I must admit, maybe Math was too far, although it may be a reasonable step for Right Wing Cancel Culture. When you start to deny the mascot of your own Religion, you know anything is possible now.
Pale Dawn wrote:
Galmat wrote:Any Conservative majority town would certainly be against either Evolution, Sex Ed, or Human Anatomy just to list a few.


Parents should have the right to teach sex ed should they see the State as being unfit to provide a proper education.

I would like to see examples of parents requesting the removal of evolution and human anatomy from the curriculum.

What if Parents don't view homosexuality as natural or valid? Is this still fine?
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“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim." -Elie Wiesel
Judas said to him, "I know who you are and where you've come from. You've come from the immortal realm of Barbelo" (The Gospel Of Judas)
I'm your friendly neighborhood Gnostic!

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Pale Dawn
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Postby Pale Dawn » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:05 am

Galmat wrote:
Pale Dawn wrote:
In what kind of community do you imagine a majority of parents opting their kids out of science and math?

Where is the sham?

The sham part of it is that it's a proxy war to protect the personal opinions and beliefs of the parents rather than shielding children from actually inappropriate content. Here, we have parents concerned about teenagers at an appropriate age reading an educational novel about sex, while preteens and children are exposed to gore at a young age. Why don't I hear complaints about that? It's just another moral panic, another mass hysteria that wants to wipe away the LGBTQ community, wipe away the evidence of systemic racism, and to defend the interests of those in power.



Your entire argument here hinges on your subjective opinion of what should be considered inappropriate. So not a sham, just something you are against.
Last edited by Pale Dawn on Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
From The Ash We tower - I made this. So...here
If we are doing military comparisons, I have different tech levels, so just match whatever your nation is to the appropriate level. If you are PT, imagine a set redneck guerilla warbands fighting so that their families aren't wiped out by famine and raiders. My goal in this is to be able to line myself up against any nations (along their timeline and tech level) whether they are based in 1974 or 80859. As such the numbers from PMT on are a bit soft. Those looking at our culture are stuck with MT timeline but I am building it out more. And for those who don't want to see factbooks, stats are not cannon. Policies are.

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Cessarea
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Postby Cessarea » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:07 am

Pale Dawn wrote:
Galmat wrote:The sham part of it is that it's a proxy war to protect the personal opinions and beliefs of the parents rather than shielding children from actually inappropriate content. Here, we have parents concerned about teenagers at an appropriate age reading an educational novel about sex, while preteens and children are exposed to gore at a young age. Why don't I hear complaints about that? It's just another moral panic, another mass hysteria that wants to wipe away the LGBTQ community, wipe away the evidence of systemic racism, and to defend the interests of those in power.



Your entire argument here hinges on your subjective opinion of what should be considered inappropriate. So not a sham, just something you are against.

Translation: "That's, like, your opinion, maaaaan..."
Completely undecided on everything I guess

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Pale Dawn
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Postby Pale Dawn » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:09 am

Galmat wrote:
Pale Dawn wrote:
Parents should have the right to teach sex ed should they see the State as being unfit to provide a proper education.

I would like to see examples of parents requesting the removal of evolution and human anatomy from the curriculum.

What if Parents don't view homosexuality as natural or valid? Is this still fine?


Since that goes along with sex education it falls under my previous post regarding parents right to opt their children out of state dictated sex ed if they feel the state is unfit to provide the information.
From The Ash We tower - I made this. So...here
If we are doing military comparisons, I have different tech levels, so just match whatever your nation is to the appropriate level. If you are PT, imagine a set redneck guerilla warbands fighting so that their families aren't wiped out by famine and raiders. My goal in this is to be able to line myself up against any nations (along their timeline and tech level) whether they are based in 1974 or 80859. As such the numbers from PMT on are a bit soft. Those looking at our culture are stuck with MT timeline but I am building it out more. And for those who don't want to see factbooks, stats are not cannon. Policies are.

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Galmat
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Postby Galmat » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:14 am

Pale Dawn wrote:
Galmat wrote:
What if Parents don't view homosexuality as natural or valid? Is this still fine?


Since that goes along with sex education it falls under my previous post regarding parents right to opt their children out of state dictated sex ed if they feel the state is unfit to provide the information.

The question is, what if parents withhold such information on homosexuality or teach it in a way that demonizes it rather than providing a balanced point of view? It can be agreed, to some extent, that homosexuality is a naturally occurring, perfectly normal aspect. So, allowing parents to limit such truths from being taught, is it wrong?
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I'm your friendly neighborhood Gnostic!

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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:14 am

As I inevitably tend to mention whenever the topic of sex ed comes up, the only exposure I had to it in my Californian town was a week-long segment in middle and high school respectively, with the one in high school only covering STIs. In the latter, part of the education involved practicing the placement of condoms on wooden models of penises, I was uncomfortable and refused to participate, they let me sit it out, yadda yadda I've said it before.

Basically, if the kids themselves are uncomfortable with something like that in a setting like sex ed, they should be allowed to opt out. I don't think I would have reacted well to being forced into doing that as a school assignment. I however don't think it would've been good if, hypothetically, my parents had learned about the STI unit ahead of time and had me pulled from it. Exposure to that topic like that via education is important if it is done properly.

More exposure to LGBTQ stuff might've been good too, since I did not know it existed in the real world until my freshman year of high school as well. I quite literally thought they were part of fiction, like elves or leprechauns.
Last edited by Stellar Colonies on Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Pale Dawn
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Postby Pale Dawn » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:17 am

Galmat wrote:
Pale Dawn wrote:
Since that goes along with sex education it falls under my previous post regarding parents right to opt their children out of state dictated sex ed if they feel the state is unfit to provide the information.

The question is, what if parents withhold such information on homosexuality or teach it in a way that demonizes it rather than providing a balanced point of view? It can be agreed, to some extent, that homosexuality is a naturally occurring, perfectly normal aspect. So, allowing parents to limit such truths from being taught, is it wrong?

No not wrong.
How exactly would you stop parents from teaching this since they could do so at home regardless if the kid goes to school or not?
Last edited by Pale Dawn on Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
From The Ash We tower - I made this. So...here
If we are doing military comparisons, I have different tech levels, so just match whatever your nation is to the appropriate level. If you are PT, imagine a set redneck guerilla warbands fighting so that their families aren't wiped out by famine and raiders. My goal in this is to be able to line myself up against any nations (along their timeline and tech level) whether they are based in 1974 or 80859. As such the numbers from PMT on are a bit soft. Those looking at our culture are stuck with MT timeline but I am building it out more. And for those who don't want to see factbooks, stats are not cannon. Policies are.

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Cessarea
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Postby Cessarea » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:17 am

Stellar Colonies wrote:As I inevitably tend to mention whenever the topic of sex ed comes up, the only exposure I had to it in my Californian town was a week-long segment in middle and high school respectively, with the one in high school only covering STIs. In the latter, part of the education involved practicing the placement of condoms on wooden models of penises, I was uncomfortable and refused to participate, they let me sit it out, yadda yadda I've said it before.

Basically, if the kids themselves are uncomfortable with something like that in a setting like sex ed, they should be allowed to opt out. I don't think I would have reacted well to being forced into doing that as a school assignment. I however don't think it would've been good if, hypothetically, my parents had learned about the STI unit ahead of time and had me pulled from it. Exposure to that topic like that via education is important if it is done properly.

More exposure to LGBTQ stuff might've been good too, since I did not know they existed in the real world until my freshman year of high school as well. I quite literally thought they were part of fiction, such as leprechauns or elves.

Your experience in this is great: the point of sex ed is not to force people to like sex, it's to give them an opportunity to learn in an environment that is made for learning. If they don't feel comfortable, that's alright. Sex ed is a wholly benign thing, and I often wonder why people make such a fuss out of it. Honestly, I'd probably be one of the students opting out back when I was 13 or so, but I'd never deny the benefits it can have.
Last edited by Cessarea on Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stella Nera
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Postby Stella Nera » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:18 am

Stop the banning of all things censorship is bad and these controlling politicians are using morality as an excuse, as a false pretense. They use moralism to wield terror, they are moralistically terroristic.

If you want to ban something from a childrens library or school because of inappropriate content then that is understandable but on a national level is unacceptable, it is an affront liberty.

If parents don't want their kid to read or watch something then they should make sure they don't themselves instead of trying to ban a piece of literature or fiction, if its a live action thing then yeah go ahead and age restrict it but don't ban it because it is unfair to those who are older and more mature.
Last edited by Stella Nera on Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Bradfordville
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Postby Bradfordville » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:20 am

I wish the "protect the children" mob really cared about protecting the children. If they did, all of them would support common sense gun laws, and yet a large number, probably the majority, don't. They say it infringes on their rights and that there's nothing we can do to stop mass killings anyways, so why even try? I'll take their concerns about a book seriously when they take concerns about kids being killed seriously.

And going beyond the wild west shooting gallery type of society that many of these folks think is an okay place to live in, what about LGBT children? Do they think about them? Only in the sense that they despise them and go out of their way to push policies and practices that make school a living hell for these kids. They support conversion therapy which is basically guantanamo Bay torture for gay kids. So once again, where are we protecting children? Oh, oh maybe we can protect kids by ending child marriage.

Nah, we can't do that either, cause reasons.

Maybe we can rid police departments of the absolute rot within so they can't abuse and even kill black children anymore, like how they murdered Tamir Rice. Oh wait, I forgot, sorry. Those aren't children we care about, because we decided as a society long ago that Black lives don't matter.

We'll protect kids from reading about the black Wallstreet massacre, because as we all know, white children are such weak and pathetic excuses for people, that upon reading about historical injustices, they go full birdbox, yeah? :roll:

I'm so sick and tired of people hiding their hateful, backwards beliefs behind "think about the kids!"
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Galmat
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Postby Galmat » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:21 am

Cessarea wrote:
Pale Dawn wrote:

Your entire argument here hinges on your subjective opinion of what should be considered inappropriate. So not a sham, just something you are against.

Translation: "That's, like, your opinion, maaaaan..."

I remember having a conversation with someone that went like this:

Me: 'The Bible doesn't explicitly say that a forced miscarriage is murder, as the punishment is not stoning. Therefore, a Bible-based believer should not consider abortion to be murder but rather immoral.'

Them: 'That's subjective, everything is subjective.'

Me: 'You literally give the church thousands of dollars a month, and that's subjective to you?'

Them: 'That's your opinion and subjective.'

Me: 'I literally read the verse word for word; you are denying the facts. You believe the word to be literal, do you not?'

Them: 'Yes.'

Me: 'Okay, so it's objective, right?'

Them: 'Yes.'

Me: 'So, therefore, you should believe that a forced miscarriage is not the murder of a human being, correct?'

Them: 'That's your opinion.
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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:21 am

Cessarea wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:As I inevitably tend to mention whenever the topic of sex ed comes up, the only exposure I had to it in my Californian town was a week-long segment in middle and high school respectively, with the one in high school only covering STIs. In the latter, part of the education involved practicing the placement of condoms on wooden models of penises, I was uncomfortable and refused to participate, they let me sit it out, yadda yadda I've said it before.

Basically, if the kids themselves are uncomfortable with something like that in a setting like sex ed, they should be allowed to opt out. I don't think I would have reacted well to being forced into doing that as a school assignment. I however don't think it would've been good if, hypothetically, my parents had learned about the STI unit ahead of time and had me pulled from it. Exposure to that topic like that via education is important if it is done properly.

More exposure to LGBTQ stuff might've been good too, since I did not know they existed in the real world until my freshman year of high school as well. I quite literally thought they were part of fiction, such as leprechauns or elves.

Your experience in this is great: the point of sex ed is not to force people to like sex, it's to give them an opportunity to learn in an environment that is made for learning. If they don't feel comfortable, that's alright. Sex ed is a wholly benign thing, and I often wonder why people make such a fuss out of it. Honestly, I'd probably be one of the students opting out back when I was 13 or so, but I'd never deny the benefits it can have.

Yeah, if it is done right it's very beneficial. Just being told to be abstinent would've worked perfectly well as advice for me, since I've never had any interest in participating with the subject matter, but obviously just that is terrible advice for most teenagers.
Last edited by Stellar Colonies on Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bradfordville
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Ex-Nation

Postby Bradfordville » Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:22 am

Galmat wrote:
Osmauri wrote:None of that says "banning math" to me, though it'd certainly be a useful way to efficiently scam people if they can't do basic arithmetic anymore.

I must admit, maybe Math was too far, although it may be a reasonable step for Right Wing Cancel Culture. When you start to deny the mascot of your own Religion, you know anything is possible now.
Pale Dawn wrote:
Parents should have the right to teach sex ed should they see the State as being unfit to provide a proper education.

I would like to see examples of parents requesting the removal of evolution and human anatomy from the curriculum.

What if Parents don't view homosexuality as natural or valid? Is this still fine?


I don't view the parents as natural or valid. I guess they don't get rights as people now because of opinions.
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