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Has Progressivism gone too far?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Has Progressivism gone too far?

Yes, go back 10 years or more
422
42%
Yes and No, Maintain the status Quo
123
12%
No
107
11%
No, and it’s not gone far enough
344
35%
 
Total votes : 996

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Valles Marineris Mining co
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Has Progressivism gone too far?

Postby Valles Marineris Mining co » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:21 am

I wanted to discuss a question that has been bugging me lately. Has progressivism gone too far? We have seen people affirming mental illness as their identities instead of trying to treat them, Canada now has euthanasia for people who are depressed, and don’t even get me started with twitter. We have seen a “Queers for Palestine” movement, when ironically an lgbt person would be stoned in the streets in Palestine.

This is not meant to be a conservative circlejerk, I personally am neutral on this discussion, and just want to hear what others have to add to the discussion.
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Essic
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Postby Essic » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:26 am

About time someone noticed. Yes, it has gone quite far. Tbh, I probably have a good opinion of progressivism 10 years ago.

Progressive healthcare and free healthcare in Canada is blessed! But Euthanasia is not healthcare imo.
Last edited by Essic on Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Valles Marineris Mining co
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Postby Valles Marineris Mining co » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:31 am

Essic wrote:About time someone noticed. Yes, it has gone quite far. Tbh, I probably have a good opinion of progressivism 10 years ago.

I feel like both sides have entrenched themselves. However conservativism only entrenched themselves as a reaction to progressivism.

If you don’t support every single obscure gender identity you are a fascist bigot
If you call somebody they/them, you are a woke groomer


Wtf do I do then? What does a moderate in terms of social policy do in such a polarized political climate?
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“Free will is a myth, religion is a joke. We are all pawns controlled by something greater: Memes, the DNA of the soul. They shape our will. They are the culture. They are everything we pass on. Expose someone to anger long enough, they will learn to hate. They become a carrier. Envy, greed, despair; all memes, all passed along.” -Monsoon

“In wilds beyond they speak your name with reverence and regret,
For none could tame our savage souls yet you the challenge met,
Under palest watch, you taught, we changed, base instincts were redeemed,
A world you gave to bug and beast as they had never dreamed.“ -Monomon the Teacher

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Essic
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Postby Essic » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:33 am

Valles Marineris Mining co wrote:
Essic wrote:About time someone noticed. Yes, it has gone quite far. Tbh, I probably have a good opinion of progressivism 10 years ago.

I feel like both sides have entrenched themselves. However conservativism only entrenched themselves as a reaction to progressivism.

If you don’t support every single obscure gender identity you are a fascist bigot
If you call somebody they/them, you are a woke groomer


Wtf do I do then? What does a moderate in terms of social policy do in such a polarized political climate?


Now that I kinda think about it, it depends on where you are. America is probably quite polarized, but here at Malaysia, it's usually centrist or centre-right views I see here.

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Valles Marineris Mining co
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Postby Valles Marineris Mining co » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:34 am

Essic wrote:
Valles Marineris Mining co wrote:I feel like both sides have entrenched themselves. However conservativism only entrenched themselves as a reaction to progressivism.

If you don’t support every single obscure gender identity you are a fascist bigot
If you call somebody they/them, you are a woke groomer


Wtf do I do then? What does a moderate in terms of social policy do in such a polarized political climate?


Now that I kinda think about it, it depends on where you are. America is probably quite polarized, but here at Malaysia, it's usually centrist or centre-right views I see here.

Yeah, the polarization is mainly a North American and Western Europe problem.
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Class 0.66 civilization according to this -> viewtopic.php?f=23&t=453617
“Free will is a myth, religion is a joke. We are all pawns controlled by something greater: Memes, the DNA of the soul. They shape our will. They are the culture. They are everything we pass on. Expose someone to anger long enough, they will learn to hate. They become a carrier. Envy, greed, despair; all memes, all passed along.” -Monsoon

“In wilds beyond they speak your name with reverence and regret,
For none could tame our savage souls yet you the challenge met,
Under palest watch, you taught, we changed, base instincts were redeemed,
A world you gave to bug and beast as they had never dreamed.“ -Monomon the Teacher

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Postby Unogonduria » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:37 am

Essic wrote:
Valles Marineris Mining co wrote:I feel like both sides have entrenched themselves. However conservativism only entrenched themselves as a reaction to progressivism.

If you don’t support every single obscure gender identity you are a fascist bigot
If you call somebody they/them, you are a woke groomer


Wtf do I do then? What does a moderate in terms of social policy do in such a polarized political climate?


Now that I kinda think about it, it depends on where you are. America is probably quite polarized, but here at Malaysia, it's usually centrist or centre-right views I see here.

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Uan aa Boa
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Postby Uan aa Boa » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:50 am

Valles Marineris Mining co wrote:We have seen people affirming mental illness as their identities instead of trying to treat them

You don't give many details, but that sounds like the recovery model and it's been around for decades. Some people choose to live with or make some compromise with their symptoms rather than cope with unpleasant drug side-effects in an attempt to eliminate them at all costs. Shouldn't that be an individual choice?

Canada now has euthanasia for people who are depressed

I haven't heard of this, but suicide and depression has always been a major issue. Again, isn't this about choice?

and don’t even get me started with twitter.

OK, I won't.

We have seen a “Queers for Palestine” movement, when ironically an lgbt person would be stoned in the streets in Palestine.

Sounds like people exercising free speech to me.

As for gender identities, isn't it simple courtesy to call people what they ask you to call them?

All your examples seem to be about having an opinion about other people's choices when that maybe isn't your business.

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Pale Dawn
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Postby Pale Dawn » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:54 am

This thread is as about as obvious as a thread asking if the British like tea. Ironically if they were a bit more moderate they would be hailed as the level headed geniuses during that decade the republicans fell apart. Or maybe if the progressive ideologies didn't terrify and enrage the base of the right the republicans would have been able to go on ignoring them.
Last edited by Pale Dawn on Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ancient Troll-tec » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:59 am

I'm okay with the they/them, I can understand some of the basic stuff, but there are some things that are def way too far. Zoophiles? Why are so many people egging them on? People dressed like dogs on all fours? Kids bringing litter boxes to schools? This isn't about identity anymore, this is just utter insanity. What happened to the emos of the early 2010's? I don't want dog people, bring the emos back.
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Essic
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Postby Essic » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:01 am

Kids bringing litter boxes to schools

WHAT

bring the emos back.

same brother, same. :(

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Postby The Dodo Republic » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:01 am

Unogonduria wrote:
Essic wrote:
Now that I kinda think about it, it depends on where you are. America is probably quite polarized, but here at Malaysia, it's usually centrist or centre-right views I see here.

I swear my Bulgarian school is like the Azkaban prison for LGBTQ+ individuals ☠️☠️☠️

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Postby Essic » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:04 am

The Dodo Republic wrote:
Unogonduria wrote:I swear my Bulgarian school is like the Azkaban prison for LGBTQ+ individuals ☠️☠️☠️

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Last edited by Essic on Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Edush » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:08 am

I think that those instances that you guys are pointing out are extreme and I'd say that they aren't even part of the progressive movement. Progressivism is focused on other things, not on normalizing stuff present in the OP. And even if those people could be part of this political movement, it doesn't mean that that's the status quo in the whole group. Saying that progressives want to normalize zoopholia is like saying that the conservatives want slavery back.
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Postby Entropan » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:19 am

Ancient Troll-tec wrote: Zoophiles? Why are so many people egging them on? People dressed like dogs on all fours? Kids bringing litter boxes to schools? This isn't about identity anymore, this is just utter insanity.


i have never seen anyone advocating for that? these seem like fringe examples only the extremely online would advocate for, absolutely not representative of progressivism as a whole

Ancient Troll-tec wrote: I'm okay with the they/them


this is enough, this is the most progressive you can realistically be, everything further is weird hypothetical and not actual advocacy



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Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:22 am

Ancient Troll-tec wrote:I'm okay with the they/them, I can understand some of the basic stuff, but there are some things that are def way too far. Zoophiles? Why are so many people egging them on? People dressed like dogs on all fours? Kids bringing litter boxes to schools? This isn't about identity anymore, this is just utter insanity. What happened to the emos of the early 2010's? I don't want dog people, bring the emos back.



This is literally based off misinformation. No, children are not shitting or pissing in litter boxes at school, nor dressing up as animals at school and walking on all fours.

Not many people would advocate for the acceptance of Zoophilia either. Most people rightfully view it as degenerate.
Last edited by Second Dimetrodon Empire on Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bradfordville » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:31 am

Honestly, in some ways it hasn't gone far enough. You look at the race debate, and you'll see people say nowadays that being colorblind is racist. The more good faith among those who make this claim say that being colorblind prevents people from seeing the effects of racism on minority communities, which I can kind of understand although I think you can still be personally colorblind (not treating people differently based on their phenotype) while understanding that society itself isn't colorblind, but should be in the future.

The people who I really understand less are the ones who say we shouldn't be colorblind because we should celebrate "our differences." Our biggest differences are skin color? So wait, forget about height difference, where a genetic distinction between individuals is actually more apparent. Forget about our personalities. Forget about what language we speak. The differences we should celebrate are the fact we were born with different complexions? These folks strike me as being unnervingly similar to the white nationalists who pose as "biodiversity advocates," and while some Americans might say that things such as race pride among minorities are "progressivism going too far," the fact is that it's a sign that unfortunately, reactionary bigoted pseudoscience has poisoned the minds of the people it was created to control and oppress. Groups like the NOI are the hate that hate created. They're definitely not progressive. The NOI is so vicious that few people would mistake its racist, antisemitic and misogynist members for Progressives. But some slightly less vengeful individuals can play pretend progressive and have both Progressives and right wingers fall for it. At the end of the day, if you think race is important outside of understanding the power dynamics of American society, you're probably not nearly as progressive as you claim to be, and you yourself might be a racist. So once again, we need to be more progressive on that front and fight our way toward abolishing the concept of race entirely. Hopefully the census of 2040 will remove the question of race altogether, but it might take way longer for our country to fully understand that legitimizing pseudoscience causes more harm than good.
Last edited by Bradfordville on Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bradfordville » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:33 am

Essic wrote:About time someone noticed. Yes, it has gone quite far. Tbh, I probably have a good opinion of progressivism 10 years ago.

Progressive healthcare and free healthcare in Canada is blessed! But Euthanasia is not healthcare imo.


If someone is dying anyways, and their death is gonna be a slow, agonizing one, I think it's only fair and compassionate to say "You want us to just inject you with some drugs and stop your heart now?"
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:34 am

Valles Marineris Mining co wrote:I wanted to discuss a question that has been bugging me lately. Has progressivism gone too far? We have seen people affirming mental illness as their identities instead of trying to treat them,

I'm sure you mean transgender people, but isn't it interesting how you could also be talking about gay people?

Canada now has euthanasia for people who are depressed,

Which is a problem because they won't do anything else to help people.

and don’t even get me started with twitter.

The website owned by an antisemitic transphobe is too progressive for you?

We have seen a “Queers for Palestine” movement, when ironically an lgbt person would be stoned in the streets in Palestine.

And that's bad? That people want justice and liberation for all, not just for those who share their beliefs?

This is not meant to be a conservative circlejerk, I personally am neutral on this discussion, and just want to hear what others have to add to the discussion.

Lol, you are not neutral.
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Postby Port Carverton » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:35 am

Bradfordville wrote:
Essic wrote:About time someone noticed. Yes, it has gone quite far. Tbh, I probably have a good opinion of progressivism 10 years ago.

Progressive healthcare and free healthcare in Canada is blessed! But Euthanasia is not healthcare imo.


If someone is dying anyways, and their death is gonna be a slow, agonizing one, I think it's only fair and compassionate to say "You want us to just inject you with some drugs and stop your heart now?"

If it was only for that...

Instead it can be given to the mentally ill. It's nothing more than eugenics.

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Postby Dalavi » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:36 am

Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
Ancient Troll-tec wrote:I'm okay with the they/them, I can understand some of the basic stuff, but there are some things that are def way too far. Zoophiles? Why are so many people egging them on? People dressed like dogs on all fours? Kids bringing litter boxes to schools? This isn't about identity anymore, this is just utter insanity. What happened to the emos of the early 2010's? I don't want dog people, bring the emos back.



This is literally based off misinformation. No, children are not shitting or pissing in litter boxes at school, nor dressing up as animals at school and walking on all fours.

Not many people would advocate for the acceptance of Zoophilia either. Most people rightfully view it as degenerate.

the whole litterbox deal DOES exist, it did cause a lawsuit here in new england, i forgot which state exactly, but now a school district has to allow ppl using litterboxes
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Postby Dogmeat » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:37 am

No. But there is a persistent propaganda effort dedicated to convincing you that it has.

They have no difficulty finding a few extreme cases and presenting as if they were common or widely supported.

I say that have "no difficulty." That might be too generous. They also make shit up all the time. Like the litter box thing.
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Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:38 am

Dalavi wrote:
Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:

This is literally based off misinformation. No, children are not shitting or pissing in litter boxes at school, nor dressing up as animals at school and walking on all fours.

Not many people would advocate for the acceptance of Zoophilia either. Most people rightfully view it as degenerate.

the whole litterbox deal DOES exist, it did cause a lawsuit here in new england, i forgot which state exactly, but now a school district has to allow ppl using litterboxes


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litter_bo ... hools_hoax
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:38 am

Dalavi wrote:
Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:

This is literally based off misinformation. No, children are not shitting or pissing in litter boxes at school, nor dressing up as animals at school and walking on all fours.

Not many people would advocate for the acceptance of Zoophilia either. Most people rightfully view it as degenerate.

the whole litterbox deal DOES exist, it did cause a lawsuit here in new england, i forgot which state exactly, but now a school district has to allow ppl using litterboxes

It's a hoax.
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Armispersto
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Postby Armispersto » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:39 am

I mean the time that the enlightenment happened, Yes. progressivism has gone too far. Separation from religion and state has doomed us all.
Last edited by Armispersto on Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Down Scoblic » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:41 am

Yes

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