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[Draft] Convention on Personhood

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Second Sovereignty
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[Draft] Convention on Personhood

Postby Second Sovereignty » Sun Oct 01, 2023 1:54 am

Convention on Personhood
Category: Civil Rights || Strength: Strong
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Origin: Infinite Sovereignty,
Author: Raxes Sotriat, Envoy to the World Assembly

Sovereign Committee on World Assembly Affairs,
Counsel: Pending



The World Assembly,

Proud that the Member-States of this assembly are composed of myriad diverse cultures and forms of life,

Aspiring to empower Member-States to encounter, create, and cooperate with new forms of life, regardless of technological development or differences in physiology and psychology, wherever and however they may be found,

And convinced that a universal, coherent, and comprehensive policy regarding the possibility of sapience of any given lifeform, and methodology for determining such, will minimize the harms caused by uncertainty and empower Member-States to embrace new forms of life,

Hereby;

Defines, for the purposes of this resolution:
  1. 'Lifeform' as; any detectable and coherent entity which exhibits clear internal signalling, homeostatic, and organizational processes, or which exhibits clear internal processes functionally indistinguishable from such relative to its composition or state of existence,
  2. 'Substantially Similar', excepting where used in this definition, as; any lifeform which shares substantial similarity to another lifeform such that they could be reasonably assumed to be individuals of the same design or species,
  3. 'Xenoinvestigative Body' as; any governmental organization comprising of qualified experts in fields relevant to social, psychological, historical, and evolutionary development, operated with the express and specific purposes of identifying potential Sapient Lifeforms and making determinations with regards to such status as defined within this resolution,
  4. 'Technology' as; any tool, device, construction, or program, manufactured by a lifeform, for the purpose of performing or assisting in the performance of a task, or for the purpose of producing another tool, device or construction, regardless of material, medium, or design complexity,
  5. 'Communication' as; any means, regardless of mode or apparent complexity, with which a lifeform expresses complex ideas and meaning, to any other lifeform, whether or not it is Substantially Similar, capable of receiving and understanding the expression,
  6. 'General Reasoning' as; the ability of a given lifeform to exhibit generally complex reasoning and both logical and illogical – but internally sound - decision making within a variety of distinct conditions and environments both within and without its observed or known range of experience,
  7. 'Sapient Lifeform' as; any lifeform which exhibits the ability to produce Technologies, Communicate, and Generally Reason, as determined by a Xenoinvestigative Body of a Member-State, or a similar non-Member-State entity,

Mandates:
  1. That all Member-States lacking a Xenoinvestigative Body establish such at the earliest practicable opportunity, or otherwise designate, with mutual agreement, a Xenoinvestigative Body operated by another Member-State for the purpose, and confer upon it all authority and access needed to perform its assigned purpose,
  2. That Member-States, upon identifying a potential Sapient Lifeform, as soon as practicable, and as appropriate:
    1. Begin investigation via, at minimum, the most relevant Member-State’s Xenoinvestigative body, per the established standards regarding Sapient Lifeforms,
    2. Declare, based on clear and obvious factors, such as widespread use of highly complex technologies, or other relevant and immediately apparent factors, a Lifeform to be a Sapient Lifeform without formal investigation, or the formal completion of investigation,
  3. That investigations into the sapience of a species by Xenoinvestigative Bodies:
    1. Consist, at the first phase, of robust and thorough investigative research to determine all reasonably accessible factors relevant to the investigation,
    2. That all determinations regarding Technology, Communication, and General Reasoning take place in terms reasonable and relevant to the Lifeform undergoing investigation, and that all effort be made to accommodate and account for relevant distinctions that would otherwise threaten accurate determinations,
  4. That Member-States treat any and all lifeforms undergoing investigation regarding their status as a Sapient Lifeform with the full dignity and respect conferred to confirmed Sapient Lifeforms, and all practicable national and international legal and ethical protections extended to such,
  5. That Member-States consider all lifeforms which are Substantially Similar to a known Sapient Lifeform, as being themselves Sapient Lifeforms, regardless of individual ability to meet the defined standard therein or any disabilities or impairments,
  6. That Member-States consider any and all Sapient Lifeforms identified or declared by another Member-State, to be Sapient Lifeforms under their own law,
  7. That, with regards to all national and international law binding upon or within Member-States, all identified Sapient Lifeforms are to be considered persons, and afforded all rights, privileges, protections, restrictions, and duties thereof.


Fixed some typos and clarified some language, implementing some suggestions of Kenmoria's recommendation.

Character Count (Including BBCode): 4995

Raxes tapped a claw on the podium. The poor man was exhausted, and direly impatient. "Very good, we're all here; first of all, do you all have any idea how hard it is to compress a vast body of scientific standards into... five-thousand 'english' characters? I swear, what a miserably inefficient language. Anyway this is all a very long winded way of saying 'I'm Tired', and to please chalk-up any obvious mistakes or flaws to oversights rather than malice. I present it to the Assembly for debate, for a reason, of course. Chiefly, that I haven't been able to earn enough brevity to fit in proper guidelines for the specific operations of Xenoinvestigative Bodies."
Last edited by Second Sovereignty on Thu May 30, 2024 5:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The Communist Bloc.
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Raxes Sotriat, Envoy-Major to the World Assembly, Kestil, he/him
Masraan Olash, Envoy-Minor to the World Assembly, Alsuran, he/him
Maraline, Administrative Aide, Hanri, she/her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.
Good Lord, I've barely made this Puppet and you want FACTBOOKS? Check again soon.

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Juansonia
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Postby Juansonia » Sat Oct 07, 2023 5:52 pm

Is this intended as a replacement for GA#355?
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Postby 0cala » Sat Oct 07, 2023 5:55 pm

"Support"
- Lizandria, Empress of Ocala, Acting WA Minister.
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Nordheimrr
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Postby Nordheimrr » Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:00 pm

Support.

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Improper Classifications
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Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:03 pm

Improper WA Ambassador Dravis rises to speak. "Mandate Six is unwieldy, and anyway, why should another nation unrelated to us be allowed to mandate our own sapiency lists?"
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Improper Classifications
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Elyreia
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Postby Elyreia » Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:01 pm

Improper Classifications wrote:Improper WA Ambassador Dravis rises to speak. "Mandate Six is unwieldy, and anyway, why should another nation unrelated to us be allowed to mandate our own sapiency lists?"


Elyreian delegate Korus sighs softly, crossing their ankles as they lean back in their assigned seat. “Perhaps for the same reason why there is legislation in this body that tells other nations which races, genders, religions, ethnicities, cultures, or creeds should be mandated as equal in value and prohibited from discriminatory practices. In this case, your concern can be resolved with your resignation and exit from the assembly, if you are so concerned with your national sovereignty because I hate to tell you, you don’t have much of you’re a member here.”

They sit up forward, elbows on the desk before them, fingers steepled together. “The Principality itself has had issues passing legislation to grant equal rights to our own recent population of non-human sapients and their desires for equality and equity. I am in favor of this legislation as presented.”

Edited for grammar.
Last edited by Elyreia on Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Principality of Elyreia (Dārilarostegun Elyreia)
The Principality of Elyreia Wiki

World Assembly Ambassador: Dārilaros Korus Vaelans
Uncrowned Head of the House of Vaelans-Volaria
[he/him/she/her/they/them]
(Character Dossier)

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Second Sovereignty
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Postby Second Sovereignty » Mon Oct 09, 2023 1:06 pm

Improper Classifications wrote:Improper WA Ambassador Dravis rises to speak. "Mandate Six is unwieldy, and anyway, why should another nation unrelated to us be allowed to mandate our own sapiency lists?"


"As the good ambassador Vaelans said prior, this a matter of aiding and standardizing matters against malicious actors. Assuming correct policy is carried out, according to this draft, in other words, a positive determination by any qualified organization should be as ironclad as by any other. This is an infringement upon one's national registries, I will admit, but it is done to spare a species the indignity of constant reassessment wherever they go. The Sovereign considers this rather more important, and again, we trust in the standards laid out." Raxes paused, "As for Mandate 6, yes, it is rather unwieldy, but it seems to suffice. Of course, if you have anything more specific to offer about it, it would be appreciated."
Last edited by Second Sovereignty on Mon Oct 09, 2023 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The Communist Bloc.
Puppet of Tinfect.
Raxes Sotriat, Envoy-Major to the World Assembly, Kestil, he/him
Masraan Olash, Envoy-Minor to the World Assembly, Alsuran, he/him
Maraline, Administrative Aide, Hanri, she/her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.
Good Lord, I've barely made this Puppet and you want FACTBOOKS? Check again soon.

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Second Sovereignty
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Postby Second Sovereignty » Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:11 am

OOC:
This still exists, for the record.
Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The Communist Bloc.
Puppet of Tinfect.
Raxes Sotriat, Envoy-Major to the World Assembly, Kestil, he/him
Masraan Olash, Envoy-Minor to the World Assembly, Alsuran, he/him
Maraline, Administrative Aide, Hanri, she/her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.
Good Lord, I've barely made this Puppet and you want FACTBOOKS? Check again soon.

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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:26 am

Ambassador Fortier stands to speak. “On behalf of the Delegation to the General Assembly of the People’s Republic of Kenmoria, I have some commentary on the draft. The People’s Republic of Kenmoria is not a nation that is particularly full of non-human forms of life, yet the work of the Office of Scientific Advancement nonetheless has valuable insight to offer to this Assembly.” He presents an annotated copy of the draft, passing it to an aide.

Second Sovereignty wrote:
Convention on Personhood
Category: Civil Rights || Strength: Strong
Origin: Infinite Sovereignty,
Author: Raxes Sotriat, Envoy to the World Assembly

Sovereign Committee on World Assembly Affairs,
Counsel: Pending



The World Assembly,

Proud that the Member-States of this assembly are composed of myriad diverse cultures and forms of life,

Aspiring to empower Member-States to encounter, create, and cooperate with new forms of life, regardless of technological development or differences in physiology and psychology, wherever and however they may be found,

And convinced that a universal, coherent, and comprehensive policy regarding the possibility of sapience within any given lifeform, and methodology for determining such, will minimize the harms caused by uncertainty and empower Member-States to embrace new forms of life, It feels odd to my taste to speak of there being sapience “within” a lifeform. The sapience “of” a lifeform appears to be a more natural wording. In order to remedy the repetition of “of” that would result were this prepositional change to be adopted, I suggest the following: “…regarding the possible sapience of any given lifeform…”.

Hereby;

Defines, for the purposes of this resolution: Within this list, there is a consistent misalignment of quotation-marks, such that both are closing marks, rather than being one opening mark and one closing mark. This is of course likely a mere scrivener’s error, yet I do recommend that it be corrected. There is also something of a stylistic choice to use semicolons as delineation of the definitions. I find this unnecessary, and having no punctuation would be an improvement.
  1. ’Lifeform’ as; any detectable and coherent entity which exhibits clear internal biological signaling, homeostatic, and organizational processes, or which exhibits clear internal processes functionally indistinguishable from such relative to its composition or state of existence, “Signalling” is spelt with two ells, rather than just one. I am not certain of the utility of “coherent” here. However, I am not a scientist of the People’s Republic, merely an ambassador, so I welcome explanation on this point.
  2. ’Substantially Similar’, excepting where used in this definition, as; any lifeform which shares substantial similarity to another lifeform such that they could be reasonably individuals of the same group or species, This seems confusing, primarily because I am uncertain of what it means to reasonably be a member of a group or species. That implies that the membership itself is reasonable, which does not seem to be the drafter’s intention. Perhaps the wording of “…such that they could reasonably be considered as individuals of the same group or species” would be better. In any case, I am not certain of the usefulness of the addition of “group” as a mechanism of classification. Given that “species” is a fine term of biology, I do not believe that adding a non-technical, layperson’s term is helpful.
  3. ’Xenoinvestigative Body’ as; any governmental organization formed of specifically-qualified experts in fields relevant to social, psychological, historical, and evolutionary development, operated with the express and specific purposes of identifying potential Sapient Lifeforms and making determinations with regards to such status as defined within this resolution, I do not see a meaningful distinction between a “specifically-qualified expert” and an “expert”. The only plausible distinction would be that being “specifically-qualified” requires academic qualifications, which would needlessly exclude autodidactic experts who are nonetheless recognised authorities.
  4. ’Technology’ as; any tool, device, construction, or program, manufactured by a lifeform, for the purpose of performing or assisting in the performance of a task, or for the purpose of producing another tool, device or construction, regardless of material, medium, or design complexity, Arguably, the use of fire is a technology, yet this involves no tool, device, construction, or programme.
  5. ’Communication’ as; any means, regardless of mode or apparent complexity, with which a lifeform expresses complex ideas and meaning, to any other lifeform, whether or not it is Substantially Similar, capable of receiving and understanding the expression, Many forms of communication can involve quite simple ideas, such as a signal of distress, which is an invaluable method of communication which nonetheless is fairly basic in nature. More generally, I am not convinced of the necessity of defining “technology” and “communication”. Both definitions are, quite rightly, rather broad, so there is no limitation of the standard definition being done, which persuades me that the usual definition can be adopted. I am open to explanation on this point.
  6. ’General Reasoning’ as; the ability of a given lifeform to exhibit generally complex reasoning and both logical and illogical – but internally sound - decision making within a variety of distinct conditions and environments both within and without its observed or known range of experience, “Both within and without” would be more concise as “irrespective of”.
  7. ’Sapient Lifeform’ as; any lifeform which exhibits the ability to produce Technologies, Communicate, and Generally Reason, as determined by a valid Xenoinvestigative Body of a Member-State, or a similar non-Member-State entity whose determination may be considered valid within the terms of this resolution, Given how a xenoinvestigative body is defined, it seems as though a hypothetically invalid xenoinvestigative body would not be a xenoinvestigative body at all. This makes the qualifier that one be “valid” unnecessary, in my opinion.


Mandates:
  1. That all Member-States lacking a Xenoinvestigative Body establish such at the earliest practicable opportunity, and confer upon it all authority and access needed to perform its assigned purposes, There is a possibility of multiple member-states, particularly ones that are small in population or limited in resources, desiring to create one xenoinvestigative body together. This proposal should account for that possibility by permitting such an effort to qualify as fulfilling this mandate.
  2. That Member-States, upon identifying a potential Sapient Lifeform, as soon as practicable, either:
    1. Begin investigation via, at minimum, the most relevant Member-State’s Xenoinvestigative body, per the established standards regarding Sapient Lifeforms, I feel as though this mandate should specify what the investigation is regarding, lest it otherwise be too vague. It is implied that the investigation should cover whether the given lifeform is indeed sapient, yet this ought to be explicit.
    2. Declare, based on clear and obvious factors, such as widespread use of highly complex technologies, or other relevant and immediately apparent factors, a Lifeform to be a Sapient Lifeform without formal investigation,
  3. That investigations by Xenoinvestigative Bodies: It would be helpful to clarify that this clause refers only to investigations which are pursuant to this proposal. Otherwise, it could be read as applying to, for example, an internal disciplinary investigation.
    1. Consist, at the first phase, of robust and thorough investigative research to determine all reasonably accessible factors relevant to the investigation, This resembles, in my view, a touch of micromanagement. The precise nature of an investigation seems more apt for determination on a national, rather than international, basis. Scientific culture and methodology can vary immensely from one area to another, and standardisation here is unhelpful.
    2. That all determinations regarding Technology, Communication, and General Reasoning take place in terms reasonable and relevant to the Lifeform undergoing investigation, and that all effort be made to accommodate and account for relevant distinctions that would otherwise threaten accurate determinations, I am uncertain of what it means for a determination to take place in reasonable and relevant terms. The determination is the decision of the xenoinvestigative body, which likely ought to be an internal matter, particularly considering that the affairs of such a body will likely be classified. I also worry about the scientific integrity of accommodation to the desires of that subject which is being studied. Though I, as well as the People’s Republic of Kenmoria, of course respect all lifeforms. There is nevertheless a need for scientific objectivity.
  4. That Member-States treat any and all lifeforms undergoing investigation regarding their status as a Sapient Lifeform with the full dignity and respect conferred to confirmed Sapient Lifeforms, and all national and international legal protections extended to such, that are practicable, It would be far more elegant for “that are practicable” to be removed. Instead, “practicable” could be inserted after “all” and before “national”. The larger issue here, however, is the implication that the protections of the General Assembly might sometimes be impracticable to apply. That would be contrary to the universality and mandatory nature of this Assembly, which requires that all resolutions are applied upon passage.
  5. That Member-States consider all lifeforms which are Substantially Similar to a known Sapient Lifeform, as being themselves Sapient Lifeforms, regardless of individual ability to meet the defined standard therein or any disabilities or impairments, Given that disabilities are definitionally a subset of impairments, “disabilities or” can be removed without losing any meaning.
  6. That Member-States consider any and all Sapient Lifeforms identified or declared by another Member-State, to be Sapient Lifeforms under their own law, The Legal Code of the People’s Republic of Kenmoria does not contain a provision that defines sapience, so I wonder how this clause would affect that situation.
  7. That, with regards to all national and international law binding upon or within Member-States, all identified Sapient Lifeforms are to be considered persons, and afforded all rights, privileges, protections, restrictions, and duties thereof, excepting those which must reasonably be suspended for reasons of health and safety. I have a similar difficulty here as I had with the clause about legal protections. The law of the General Assembly is simply not amenable to suspension, even for reasons of health and safety.
Hello! I’m a GAer and NS Roleplayer from the United Kingdom.
My pronouns are he/him.
Any posts that I make as GenSec will be clearly marked as such and OOC. Conversely, my IC ambassador in the General Assembly is Ambassador Fortier. I’m always happy to discuss ideas about proposals, particularly if grammar or wording are in issue. I am also Executive Deputy Minister for the WA Ministry of TNP.
Kenmoria is an illiberal yet democratic nation pursuing the goals of communism in a semi-effective fashion. It has a very broad diplomatic presence despite being economically developing, mainly to seek help in recovering from the effect of a recent civil war. Read the factbook here for more information; perhaps, I will eventually finish it.

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Juansonia
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Postby Juansonia » Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:02 pm

Juansonia wrote:Is this intended as a replacement for GA#355?
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Second Sovereignty
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Postby Second Sovereignty » Fri May 10, 2024 6:17 am

Kenmoria wrote:Ambassador Fortier stands to speak. “On behalf of the Delegation to the General Assembly of the People’s Republic of Kenmoria, I have some commentary on the draft. The People’s Republic of Kenmoria is not a nation that is particularly full of non-human forms of life, yet the work of the Office of Scientific Advancement nonetheless has valuable insight to offer to this Assembly.” He presents an annotated copy of the draft, passing it to an aide. [...]

"Your commentary," says Raxes, as he brushes a layer of mysterious dust off of a freshly printed copy of the draft, "Is very much appreciated; the draft has been adjusted with consideration to it, though we would like to discuss certain points of your commentary as a matter of interest and clarification;" he clicks brightly, "To begin:"

Kenmoria wrote:This seems confusing, primarily because I am uncertain of what it means to reasonably be a member of a group or species. That implies that the membership itself is reasonable, which does not seem to be the drafter’s intention. Perhaps the wording of “…such that they could reasonably be considered as individuals of the same group or species” would be better. In any case, I am not certain of the usefulness of the addition of “group” as a mechanism of classification. Given that “species” is a fine term of biology, I do not believe that adding a non-technical, layperson’s term is helpful.

"This has been adjusted to term 'design', as it was intended to account for artificial life, biological or otherwise, which may not be reasonable to define along the terms of 'species', as such is strictly biological and relates to evolutionary processes in nature."

Kenmoria wrote:I do not see a meaningful distinction between a “specifically-qualified expert” and an “expert”. The only plausible distinction would be that being “specifically-qualified” requires academic qualifications, which would needlessly exclude autodidactic experts who are nonetheless recognised authorities.

"We have removed the term 'specifically', as, on reexamination, we find it redundant. 'Qualified' remains. To note; while the Sovereign understands that Member-States lacking experience with other sapient species or sciences sufficiently developed as to maintain reasonable preparation for such, may be lacking in qualified personnel, qualifications are simply not up for debate. Scientific areas, particularly those on the forefront of science, and particularly those on the forefront of social sciences, are areas wherein abuses or unethical practices are very possible in simply horrific terms. Autodidactic 'scientists', however competent, not meeting formal academic and ethical standards, absolutely should be prohibited from engaging in such sensitive research; and, of course, if they do meet those standards, then they cannot be meaningfully considered 'unqualified'. To be clear; the Sovereign casts no aspersions, I mean only to lay out our position."

Kenmoria wrote:Arguably, the use of fire is a technology, yet this involves no tool, device, construction, or programme.

"Fire, where deliberately created," Raxes chittered in what one could only assume was amusement, "is plainly a tool, and, of course, quite inarguably, a technology. That is exactly why the term is defined such as it is."

Kenmoria wrote:Many forms of communication can involve quite simple ideas, such as a signal of distress, which is an invaluable method of communication which nonetheless is fairly basic in nature. More generally, I am not convinced of the necessity of defining “technology” and “communication”. Both definitions are, quite rightly, rather broad, so there is no limitation of the standard definition being done, which persuades me that the usual definition can be adopted. I am open to explanation on this point.

"Very correct; the Sovereign of course recognizes this, but within the purpose of the resolution, 'simple' communications, which do not convey highly variable and complex ideas, need not be considered. Species which lack any form of complex communication, - any means of expressing complex ideas such as, the finer points of law, for example, - are plainly not sapient." Raxes clicks again, sharply. "With regards to the second matter raised, however; while the definitions are indeed broad in what they catch, they are also highly specific in so being. This is an intentional effort to prevent Member-States from setting absurd definitions of the terms so as to avoid legitimate determinations of sapience without inhibiting understanding of the wide variance in terms and modes of technology and communication."

Kenmoria wrote:This resembles, in my view, a touch of micromanagement. The precise nature of an investigation seems more apt for determination on a national, rather than international, basis. Scientific culture and methodology can vary immensely from one area to another, and standardisation here is unhelpful.

"You are right in that it is micromanagement, but we believe that it is eminently justifiable and necessary micromanagement." Raxes clicked again, seemingly to himself. "Failure to fully investigate unique and relevant factors with regards to a particular species may result in avoidable abuses or misunderstandings, at best, lengthening study, and at worst resulting in false-negative classifications. Such a prospect falls, if I may say, somewhere between 'horrifically irresponsible' and 'expectedly nightmarish'.

To, briefly, provide an illuminating example, the Sovereignty has observed this occurring before. Failure to perform reasonable investigation resulted in, what we shall politely call, near-genocidal policy within the jurisdiction of a government we are in contact with. While the mistake was eventually rectified, albeit in exploitative fashion, the society the Consortium's negligence devastated remains precarious."

Kenmoria wrote:I am uncertain of what it means for a determination to take place in reasonable and relevant terms. The determination is the decision of the xenoinvestigative body, which likely ought to be an internal matter, particularly considering that the affairs of such a body will likely be classified. I also worry about the scientific integrity of accommodation to the desires of that subject which is being studied. Though I, as well as the People’s Republic of Kenmoria, of course respect all lifeforms. There is nevertheless a need for scientific objectivity.

"This section serves the same fundamental purpose as the prior; technologies, - tool, devices, et-cetera, - take a number of forms, considering the unique capabilities, physiologies, and developmental conditions, of a given species. The same can be said of Communications and Reasoning abilities. Determinations regarding such must be specifically tailored in consideration of these factors, anything else is simply dangerous - or, as we intend to specifically prevent, deliberate, - negligence, and may result in exploitative or plain horrific outcomes, which must absolutely be prevented. With regards to integrity and objectivity, however," Raxes chittered again, "Any Xenoinvestigative Body which is capable of recognizing a species intentionally and meaningfully expressing its desires with regards to its study is most certainly capable of making an immediate determination with regards to the sapience of the species in question, and thus the point is moot!" There is pause before Raxes continues. "Of course, aside that, ethical practice in the course of such investigations is absolutely paramount - no one should suffer abuses on the basis of 'having to be sure'. The Sovereign is not willing to compromise on that point, for hopefully obvious reasons. We are, of course, amenable to clarification of our text; I, admit it is perhaps cumbersome in this case."

Kenmoria wrote:I have a similar difficulty here as I had with the clause about legal protections. The law of the General Assembly is simply not amenable to suspension, even for reasons of health and safety.

"This clause was intended to allow for Member-States to establish overlapping standards for species with living or health requirements that are strictly incompatible with those of another species; on reexamination, however, I have come to agreement on the matter. Better to rebuild the foundations of the law than risk permission of oppression the name of legislative convenience."

Juansonia wrote:
Juansonia wrote:Is this intended as a replacement for GA#355?

OOC:
Yes.
Last edited by Second Sovereignty on Fri May 10, 2024 6:24 am, edited 3 times in total.
Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The Communist Bloc.
Puppet of Tinfect.
Raxes Sotriat, Envoy-Major to the World Assembly, Kestil, he/him
Masraan Olash, Envoy-Minor to the World Assembly, Alsuran, he/him
Maraline, Administrative Aide, Hanri, she/her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.
Good Lord, I've barely made this Puppet and you want FACTBOOKS? Check again soon.

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Second Sovereignty
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Founded: Jan 02, 2023
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Second Sovereignty » Thu May 16, 2024 1:26 am

OOC:
Kicking this back up again.
Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The Communist Bloc.
Puppet of Tinfect.
Raxes Sotriat, Envoy-Major to the World Assembly, Kestil, he/him
Masraan Olash, Envoy-Minor to the World Assembly, Alsuran, he/him
Maraline, Administrative Aide, Hanri, she/her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.
Good Lord, I've barely made this Puppet and you want FACTBOOKS? Check again soon.

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Zinke Zoogle Bee-Bop
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 25
Founded: Apr 28, 2024
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Zinke Zoogle Bee-Bop » Thu May 16, 2024 2:30 pm

You have support from us. We Fleebs seem to be treated as lesser every time we leave the system! I mean, come one now, we use the standard Credits, the standard alphabet, we even live in harmony with the remaining Glibbish people! For far too long have these goo-backs from off system treated us as criminals and animals!

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The Overmind
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1020
Founded: Dec 12, 2022
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby The Overmind » Thu May 16, 2024 3:46 pm

Just as a preliminary thought not yet rising to the level of an argument: why not tie the determination of sapience to a lifeform's self-advocacy of the same, instead of tying it to the conclusions of an investigative body made up of other lifeforms trying to nail down the almost surely fluid criteria by way of an imprecise scientific understanding of what constitutes sapience and their own implicit biases about what it looks and acts like? This isn't quite like trying to discern sentience, where such a tenuous and othering approach to making that determination is practically unavoidable.
Last edited by The Overmind on Thu May 16, 2024 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Second Sovereignty
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 408
Founded: Jan 02, 2023
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Second Sovereignty » Thu May 16, 2024 5:54 pm

The Overmind wrote:Just as a preliminary thought not yet rising to the level of an argument: why not tie the determination of sapience to a lifeform's self-advocacy of the same, instead of tying it to the conclusions of an investigative body made up of other lifeforms trying to nail down the almost surely fluid criteria by way of an imprecise scientific understanding of what constitutes sapience and their own implicit biases about what it looks and acts like? This isn't quite like trying to discern sentience, where such a tenuous and othering approach to making that determination is practically unavoidable.

"Fair thought, but the Sovereignty has considered this, at least to a preliminary satisfaction; Xenoinvestigative Bodies are permitted to issue a simple declaration, rather than perform full investigations, wherein there are clear and obvious factors that would warrant such. The use of obvious technologies, for example, or the presence of discernible pre-industrial society, or early spaceflight, or, well, turning up in spacecraft and asking who you are, as it may well be on occasion. A species which is capable of self-advocating for its sapience such that it is understood by another, is, by clear and obvious reality, sapient. Any investigation that progresses beyond that point would be effectively perfunctory, or very short and straightforward at least - making sure it's not just, a weighted neural algorithm, for example, in the case of an artificial intelligence. To be clear; the Sovereign lays out these guidelines not that we believe an investigation must necessarily come to a formal, scientific conclusion, but to ensure that all relevant factors are gathered as quickly, accurately, and ethically as possible, while driving to the inevitable irrelevancy of formal investigation in the face of the preponderance of evidence."

Raxes clicked, to himself moreso than anyone else. "That is the intent, in any case. If you believe we haven't quite achieved that, I'd be happy to take suggestion on the matter."
Last edited by Second Sovereignty on Thu May 16, 2024 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The Communist Bloc.
Puppet of Tinfect.
Raxes Sotriat, Envoy-Major to the World Assembly, Kestil, he/him
Masraan Olash, Envoy-Minor to the World Assembly, Alsuran, he/him
Maraline, Administrative Aide, Hanri, she/her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.
Good Lord, I've barely made this Puppet and you want FACTBOOKS? Check again soon.

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Barfleur
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 1117
Founded: Mar 04, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Barfleur » Thu May 16, 2024 10:29 pm

“We see no reason not to support. In particular, we praise the authoring delegation for coming up with a uniform definition of personhood that appears to be actually workable—something this Assembly has failed to find many times over.”


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Tesseris
Envoy
 
Posts: 268
Founded: Apr 25, 2024
Corporate Police State

Postby Tesseris » Thu May 16, 2024 10:53 pm

No. Only humans should be able to obtain personhood, this proposal is preposterous, and a threat and slander against the greatness of mankind. Fully against, as it is clearly drafted in by unreasonable beliefs. Sentience is not automatic garner of rights.
User of previous nations Stella Nera and Ignis Ferreus. NS Stats, Polices and Designations are NOT Canon! Use Factbooks.
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The Overmind
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1020
Founded: Dec 12, 2022
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby The Overmind » Thu May 16, 2024 10:59 pm

Tesseris wrote:Sentience is not automatic garner of rights.

This proposal has nothing to do with sentience.

Tesseris wrote:No. Only humans should be able to obtain personhood, this proposal is preposterous, and a threat and slander against the greatness of mankind. Fully against, as it is clearly drafted in by unreasonable beliefs.

I'd love to watch you attempt to put together a coherent argument (or any argument at all for that matter) regarding this position one of these days (it would also be entertaining to see how you tie it in with the accusation of "slander") instead of just repeating your conviction in it ad nauseam in numerous threads across five-plus NS forums now.
Last edited by The Overmind on Thu May 16, 2024 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Free Palestine

Trans men are men | Trans women are women | Sex is non-binary
Assigned sex isn't biological sex | Trans rights are human rights


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Nu Elysium
Envoy
 
Posts: 275
Founded: Jan 26, 2024
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nu Elysium » Thu May 16, 2024 11:05 pm

Tesseris wrote:No. Only humans should be able to obtain personhood, this proposal is preposterous, and a threat and slander against the greatness of mankind. Fully against, as it is clearly drafted in by unreasonable beliefs. Sentience is not automatic garner of rights.

And like clockwork, Tesseris shows up in another proposal draft regarding non humans, saying the same thing he always has for the umpteenth time.
Neither you or Ignis Ferrus have WA membership, so why do you care so much about this? Why have you made 3 separate nations that are all against robot rights when this concept was only fresh the first time? This problem literally does not exist in the real world, and non-human rights are extremely popular within the WA, so why are you doing all this?

Also, Nu Elysium supports this draft.
Last edited by Nu Elysium on Thu May 16, 2024 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Second Sovereignty
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 408
Founded: Jan 02, 2023
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Second Sovereignty » Fri May 17, 2024 11:32 am

Tesseris wrote:No. Only humans should be able to obtain personhood, this proposal is preposterous, and a threat and slander against the greatness of mankind. Fully against, as it is clearly drafted in by unreasonable beliefs. Sentience is not automatic garner of rights.

Raxes clicks his mandibles, seeming to wait for something. "What, are you really going to ramble off this nonsense without going to the solid length of insulting the walking insect proposing the target of your ire? I suppose I can't really complain, but you could at least be an entertaining little supremacist."

Barfleur wrote:“We see no reason not to support. In particular, we praise the authoring delegation for coming up with a uniform definition of personhood that appears to be actually workable—something this Assembly has failed to find many times over.”

"Your support is very much appreciated."
Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The Communist Bloc.
Puppet of Tinfect.
Raxes Sotriat, Envoy-Major to the World Assembly, Kestil, he/him
Masraan Olash, Envoy-Minor to the World Assembly, Alsuran, he/him
Maraline, Administrative Aide, Hanri, she/her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.
Good Lord, I've barely made this Puppet and you want FACTBOOKS? Check again soon.

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Arakhkhar
Senator
 
Posts: 3719
Founded: Jan 03, 2024
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Arakhkhar » Fri May 17, 2024 3:02 pm

Tesseris wrote:No. Only humans should be able to obtain personhood, this proposal is preposterous, and a threat and slander against the greatness of mankind. Fully against, as it is clearly drafted in by unreasonable beliefs. Sentience is not automatic garner of rights.


If you want to RP an anti-nonhuman crusade/genocide/whatever, do so in International Incidents. The WA is comprised of a very, very large number of nonhumans - while the minority, they far, far outweigh your voice.

You want to RP human supremacy? Fine, do it there.
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Second Sovereignty
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 408
Founded: Jan 02, 2023
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Second Sovereignty » Mon May 20, 2024 11:29 pm

OOC:
Another set of minor adjustments have been made, and, barring any comments otherwise, this is looking fairly complete. And below the character limit.
Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The Communist Bloc.
Puppet of Tinfect.
Raxes Sotriat, Envoy-Major to the World Assembly, Kestil, he/him
Masraan Olash, Envoy-Minor to the World Assembly, Alsuran, he/him
Maraline, Administrative Aide, Hanri, she/her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.
Good Lord, I've barely made this Puppet and you want FACTBOOKS? Check again soon.

|||||||||||||||||#283||||||||||||||||||

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New Westmore
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 168
Founded: Jul 21, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby New Westmore » Mon May 20, 2024 11:54 pm

We support this wholeheartedly. It is about time the World Assembly exactly defines what constitutes a person in this vast world of ours.

OOC: this is written really well! Maybe I could learn a thing or two from you at writing GA resolutions - all of my proposals have seem to have gone nowhere at all :lol2:
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New Westmore
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 168
Founded: Jul 21, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby New Westmore » Tue May 21, 2024 12:02 am

Tesseris wrote:No. Only humans should be able to obtain personhood, this proposal is preposterous, and a threat and slander against the greatness of mankind. Fully against, as it is clearly drafted in by unreasonable beliefs. Sentience is not automatic garner of rights.

With the kind of incessant and racist rhetoric your delegation has only been pedalling this entire time, are you even human at this point? Last I recall, part of the idea to be human is to be capable of love, care and understanding, all of which qualities which your people seem to just lack.

OOC: Stop. If you have nothing to contribute at all, just don't interact. We are all collectively tired of this stupid humanist gimmick you have running, and on top of this you have already been asked by mods to cease this activity, so please. Just stop.
World Assembly Delegation

President (GA/SC)
Esther Lynn (she/her)

MoFA (GA)
Dennis Mercer (he/him)

MoD (SC)
Allie McMurdo (she/they/them)
(Extended bio)
View my old sigs

Comments made in NSGP do not represent
the East Pacific unless specified.
Democratic Republic of New Westmore
Per Ardua, Ad Astra | Minister of Outreach of The East Pacific

Today's News | The Dalesburg Chronicle
The future is now: man receives bionic respiratory implant that replaces heart and lungs with a machine | Premier of Central Westmore condemned for posting "biphobic content" on his social media | Intelligence leak suspected to be behind reverse-engineered military equipment found in the Republic of Torres | Christian Hart and Jacinta Eleanor is buried at sea

------- | >xx< | -------

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Aeyariss
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5451
Founded: Mar 26, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aeyariss » Tue May 21, 2024 12:29 am

New Westmore wrote:
Tesseris wrote:No. Only humans should be able to obtain personhood, this proposal is preposterous, and a threat and slander against the greatness of mankind. Fully against, as it is clearly drafted in by unreasonable beliefs. Sentience is not automatic garner of rights.

Yet another instance of Tesseris/Stella Nera just being an annoyance in the GA threads. This is not the first time he has said something like this and at this point, a lot of people, including me, are getting tired of this dumb gimmick he has been doing ever since he started out.

Is this actionable, and if so, please punish accordingly. Thank you.


Mate this one probably falls under using mod as a weapon.. No matter how strongly you feel, or disagree with him being "annoyed" is a 'you problem' and not a forum rule breaking offence.

Grow a thicker skin.

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