Online Voting: A good or bad idea?

[Makko Oko]

A proposal that I saw discussed in the American Politics thread was the US state of Michigan drafting a law to have voting online over the internet. I'm curious to hear everybody's thoughts on this on why it would be a good or bad idea, and how you might implement such an idea yourself. Personally, I see both sides here. I understand that internet voting is a vulnerability that has to be defended against, but at the same time, I also see the merit behind such an idea.

I'm personally open to the idea but not inherently for or against it. That is because we could implement a system at the national level, not controlled by the states, to have it all be centralized, and then to defend against leaks of PII, you could sign up by the post or in-person to become an online voter, so the highly sensitive information wouldn't end up in that database, and it could cut down on fake or dead voters. In terms of infrastructure security, that would all depend on how smart the web developers of the government are. They could do a lot from limiting the API calls to decrease potential exposure of data and endpoints to contracting with a third party who knows how to secure critical infrastructure.

Remember: Anything online will inevitably get breached one day. It is only a matter of when, not if. The better you are at security, the longer it will take.

[Floofybit]

A terrible idea. Maybe they could take your fingerprint when voting to prevent further voting fraud, but online voting will NOT work.

[Pale Dawn]

Security is an issue
Transparency is an issue
The biggest issue is there would be no faith in the system because you cant just tell people the previous 2 points aren't a problem.

[The Black Forrest]

Security is an issue
Transparency is an issue
The biggest issue is there would be no faith in the system because you cant just tell people the previous 2 points aren't a problem.

What’s funny with the fraud claims in the last election? The republicans who are all about “election safety” were the ones committing it.

[Saarenmaa]

On the other hand, Estonia has internet voting. They adopted them for the reason that they can keep them fair and democratic. In big countries like USA, Germany, Russia, etc. this is practically impossible, because power in these countries has a huge price, not like in Estonia where there are only 1.5 million people, so online voting can only work in small countries where democracy is already established and democratic institutions work well.

[Karakalpaqstan]

It’s a bad idea and is completely open to manipulation.

[Pale Dawn]

Security is an issue
Transparency is an issue
The biggest issue is there would be no faith in the system because you cant just tell people the previous 2 points aren't a problem.

What’s funny with the fraud claims in the last election? The republicans who are all about “election safety” were the ones committing it.

i remember reading something about a man(r) using his wifes ballot do i remember a vote count's windows being covered temporarily?

But my point here is that belief in a system is key and while i personally dont think vote fraud was alleged with evidence to back it up, i do think that if we are moving forward as a nation, any questions about election integrity need to be appeased and a whole new method isnt going to do that. I would like to see the next election not marked with doubt.

[San Lumen]

No it’s a terrible idea. No system exists that is secure enough to prevent hacking.

[Second Dimetrodon Empire]

The internet is a disaster, so no to the idea of online voting.

[Unmet Player]

No, online voting is more susceptible to manipulation

[Saiwana]

I know this space (somewhat), while it can be made more secure like online banking often is, it hasn't been trialed in real life enough yet. I agree that it could be manipulated, but let's not pretend that physical ballots are much better if there are a bunch of blue states or sanctuary city jurisdictions that have lax or no ID requirements for illegal immigrants and they just let them vote.

Yeah, fact checkers insist that voting fraud almost never happens, but I don't buy it if there is such resistance in certain places to actually vetting people. If an illegal immigrant can get a driver's license, how can they not be able to vote if a blue state/city only required that to enter in the voting building?

NYC to my knowledge, has or is letting noncitizens participate in their municipal elections.

[Durius]

I don't think voter fraud would be a problem. I don't know about the US, but here in Europe we already have quite a lot of official services, from fiscal or justice services to healthcare that can be acceded online through official digital key and we can sign documents with digital signatures. So, I think could be made as secure as those services and likely would be even less fraudulent that paper votes. What worries me the most is the anonymity part. We would need a system in place that ensured nobody would have access to our vote.

On the other hand, Estonia has internet voting. They adopted them for the reason that they can keep them fair and democratic. In big countries like USA, Germany, Russia, etc. this is practically impossible, because power in these countries has a huge price, not like in Estonia where there are only 1.5 million people, so online voting can only work in small countries where democracy is already established and democratic institutions work well.

You are being unfairly dismissive of Estonia's importance. Estonia is a NATO and EU member with veto power in both institutions. This means that if someone is actually able to influence the vote to elect a Manchurian candidate in Estonia, they would be able to influence or block two major institutions of the Western world.

[Bradfordville]

As someone who lives in the state of Michigan, I gotta say this is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard, which speaks volumes considering the hell dimension our country was thrown into sometime between 2016 and 2020. Online voting is how you get more fraud. It's how foreign governments can gain access to the very process itself. And it's only gonna feed Donald Trump's narrative that "iTs AlL rIgGeD"

[San Lumen]

As someone who lives in the state of Michigan, I gotta say this is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard, which speaks volumes considering the hell dimension our country was thrown into sometime between 2016 and 2020. Online voting is how you get more fraud. It's how foreign governments can gain access to the very process itself. And it's only gonna feed Donald Trump's narrative that "iTs AlL rIgGeD"

The thing is the Secretary of State has to create a secure system by 2025 and she’s going up have to tell the state “sorry we couldn’t do it.

Hopefully the State Senate votes it down.

[Rary]

Nope, it should never be a thing. Voting should be in person and in person only, no mail in votes or anything like that. Make election day a national holiday and leave it.

[Durius]

Nope, it should never be a thing. Voting should be in person and in person only, no mail in votes or anything like that. Make election day a national holiday and leave it.

Basically, make it as inconvenient as possible and then throw in a measure that, instead of fixing the issue, actual leads to even lower turnouts.

[The Seven levels of Heaven]

On paper it's a great idea because, well, people don't like taking trips to go down to vote at the machines, and mailing your ballots in the old fashioned way is basically out of style...so giving the option to vote at home on your computer is great.

But cyber attacks, systems being hacked, tampering, all that is still a pretty big problem in the internet world. All the talks of election interference have more weight when it comes to online voting. In short, it's a nice and convenient, but definitely not safe from something such as vote tampering.

[Floofybit]

Nope, it should never be a thing. Voting should be in person and in person only, no mail in votes or anything like that. Make election day a national holiday and leave it.

Basically, make it as inconvenient as possible and then throw in a measure that, instead of fixing the issue, actual leads to even lower turnouts.

Don't focus on the inconvenience. Focus on the more important security and prevention of fraud.

[Stellar Colonies]

Basically, make it as inconvenient as possible and then throw in a measure that, instead of fixing the issue, actual leads to even lower turnouts.

Don't focus on the inconvenience. Focus on the more important security and prevention of fraud.

Making voting less convenient reduces the rate that people vote, and also intensifies the extremism amongst that pool since the most dedicated are going to vote no matter what.

[Durius]

Basically, make it as inconvenient as possible and then throw in a measure that, instead of fixing the issue, actual leads to even lower turnouts.

Don't focus on the inconvenience. Focus on the more important security and prevention of fraud.

Discouraging people from voting by making it either expensive or inconvenient is as damaging to democracy, if not even more, as fraud is. In fact, it's essentially fraud that is somehow institutionally accepted.

[Rary]

Nope, it should never be a thing. Voting should be in person and in person only, no mail in votes or anything like that. Make election day a national holiday and leave it.

Basically, make it as inconvenient as possible and then throw in a measure that, instead of fixing the issue, actual leads to even lower turnouts.

So tell me, what is the solution? If I’m being honest I don’t know that much about mail in votes, but I’m certain that in person voting is the most secure way to carry out an election. Is it really that hard to walk to the primary school to vote?

[Durius]

Basically, make it as inconvenient as possible and then throw in a measure that, instead of fixing the issue, actual leads to even lower turnouts.

So tell me, what is the solution? If I’m being honest I don’t know that much about mail in votes, but I’m certain that in person voting is the most secure way to carry out an election. Is it really that hard to walk to the primary school to vote?

Well, yes. It indeed is extremely hard. First of all most cities aren't even properly walkable cities. And even fewer are properly set up physical problems. I worked in voting booths and you have no idea how painful it is to see people giving up voting because they can barely walk up some stairs or stand long periods waiting in lines. Of course increasing the number of voting booths and locations would help, but that is politicized since it's often the case that a given party is not interested that a given demographic votes easily.

[Punished UMN]

No, now if you add a stipulation that it requires a donation, then sign me up!

[Rary]

So tell me, what is the solution? If I’m being honest I don’t know that much about mail in votes, but I’m certain that in person voting is the most secure way to carry out an election. Is it really that hard to walk to the primary school to vote?

Well, yes. It indeed is extremely hard. First of all most cities aren't even properly walkable cities. And even fewer are properly set up physical problems. I worked in voting booths and you have no idea how painful it is to see people giving up voting because they can barely walk up some stairs or stand long periods waiting in lines. Of course increasing the number of voting booths and locations would help, but that is politicized since it's often the case that a given party is not interested that a given demographic votes easily.

I know that in America it’s pretty hard to travel without a car, but in most places, it’s probably not much longer than a 20 or 30 minute walk. Every few years. It’s not difficult, but if you can’t walk, ever heard of a bus? Just turn every public school, maybe even a few public buildings, into voting centres. Schools are everywhere, and are close to public transport.

[Floofybit]

No, now if you add a stipulation that it requires a donation, then sign me up!

Donation?