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We Have to Fix Capitalism!

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JasminCorp Colonies
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We Have to Fix Capitalism!

Postby JasminCorp Colonies » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:06 pm

Disclaimer: I'm obviously not a Communist, but rather am a (mostly) Conservative US Citizen. Furthermore while this is written in the perspective of saving capitalism, I want to stress that helping people should be done for many reasons, not just for the sake of saving Capitalism.

As the nation I call home progresses into an uncertain future, we are faced with many issues, but one that will more than likely arise due to the vast wealth inequality we face: Communism. Yes, fear of Communism can be a bit of a cliché, and there are many morons on both the American left, right, and center who don't know what Communism, Capitalism, or the dictionary is, and thus make ridiculous assertions calling everything they hate 'Communism' or what have you. So I want to first define Communism: The State seizing the means of production and re-distributing goods to the citizens. It also, and most dangerously, has an end goal of a 'stateless, classless society.'

Although not popular among normal people who don't write their political ideas on the internet (like myself), Communism has gained popularity with the general public and the terrible class divide that plagues our society is inevitably going to lead to some sort of revolution; maybe not a communist revolution, but there is no doubt that the system can't sustain itself the way it is. We are going to end up like the Russian Empire in 1917 if we don't already, and I fear the next stages is going to be Stalin, a central planning board, and lot of (especially economic) freedom evaporated.

Maybe this makes me a bleeding heart liberal, but here are some (admittedly very broad) 'commandments' every nation should follow that would aid in fixing Capitalism:
1) No one, not even Karl Marx, should be homeless. America has thousands of empty buildings, empty malls, etc. that do literally nothing but take up space. (Yes there are some people who will voluntarily be homeless but that is a very, very, very small number)
2) Private Insurance for All or a Public Healthcare Option: Medicine is a human right, and many people don't have jobs that pay for health insurance.
3) (For Democracies) Mandatory public financing of elections only. No one, from a billionaire to a 'small dollar donor' should be paying for your campaign.
4) Helping the needy doesn't hurt the free market. Many libertarian style capitalists think that aforementioned ideas are bad because they 'go against the free market.' It only competes with it, which is key to a free market. And when the govt helps the needy, say with free housing, renters will be incentivized to bring down costs as well.
5) Most importantly: Doing the right thing promotes opportunity! If people have access to human needs, they can, and will thrive for the most part. If you're educated, have a roof over your head, food, water, and healthcare, you are 1000x more likely to start a business, invest, buy a new car, or in some other way contribute to and grow a capitalist system.

I hope this wasn't too long and drawn out of a post. Either way thanks for reading :) and God bless.

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Unmet Player
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Postby Unmet Player » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:08 pm

You can't fix capitalism, only solidify it's existence as the biggest exploitative force

Also, Communism is the workers seizing the means of production, not the state
Last edited by Unmet Player on Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Almighty Biden » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:09 pm

Let, me make it clear for you, folks, but capitalism is on the way out.
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Kaliitnuunati
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Postby Kaliitnuunati » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:10 pm

I am extremely staunch against communism and anything resembling marx, like most people in eastern europe. However a lot of these points make a lot of sense. There is a difference between the government taking your stuff and "redistributing" it, another nation invading yours under the guise of "liberation", and basic social services that boost quality of life.

Very nice i like :clap:
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Second Dimetrodon Empire
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:14 pm

Unmet Player wrote:You can't fix capitalism, only solidify it's existence as the biggest exploitative force

Also, Communism is the workers seizing the means of production, not the state


This ^^
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Postby Kaliitnuunati » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:14 pm

Unmet Player wrote:You can't fix capitalism, only solidify it's existence as the biggest exploitative force

Also, Communism is the workers seizing the means of production, not the state

Still false, every major communist power in history was led by a corrupt government seizing everything people owned, and redistributing it so the government has more, and the people have less. The closest thing to "true" communism are Israeli Kibbutz. Israel, as you may know is NOT a radical left wing communist utopia.
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JasminCorp Colonies
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Postby JasminCorp Colonies » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:14 pm

Thank you @ Kaliitnuunati. :)

As a response to one of the previous replies, unless a mob shows up at your house, takes it, and redistributes it (laughable), it's going to be the STATE doing it.

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Tangatarehua
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Postby Tangatarehua » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:16 pm

What you're advocating for exists. It's called Social Democracy and it's pretty much the default in every western country except for the US.
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Postby Terminus Station » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:36 pm

we already have the tools to fix capitalism, its in capitalism itself and democracy. We could have unions, regulations and the divorce of money in politics. But that would be too much of an inconvenience to the rich and powerful so we don't.
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Terminus Station
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Terminus Station » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:38 pm

Unmet Player wrote:You can't fix capitalism, only solidify it's existence as the biggest exploitative force

Also, Communism is the workers seizing the means of production, not the state

objectively false, you need a medium of transfer of private ownership to the collective and whoever controls that medium has all the power because it has all the money. Therein is why communism doesnt work. 1 entity gets to control who gets the money and it always chooses itself.
"What happens to a Communist when he/she is given the most work "according to their ability" but are given nothing in return "according to their needs?"
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Second Dimetrodon Empire
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:43 pm

Terminus Station wrote:we already have the tools to fix capitalism, its in capitalism itself and democracy. We could have unions, regulations and the divorce of money in politics. But that would be too much of an inconvenience to the rich and powerful so we don't.


Even the U.S. once had strong unions and regulations. That era is over, especially in the neoliberal era we find ourselves in, and even places like the U.K. are having their NHS gutted.

Capitalists took a hit in the mid 20th century, had to make social democratic concessions, then since the 1980s launched a counter attack, rolling back these reforms.

The only way the positive changes OP wants will ever come into fruition would ironically be through the abolition of capitalism. They're not going to let up as easily as in the 20th century, and even if they did, these positive changes will only be temporary.
Last edited by Second Dimetrodon Empire on Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Washington-Columbia » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:29 pm

Remove money as a status for power. Gut lobbying loopholes, corporate donations and give more power to the workers and restrict the power of the wealthy to be the same as the people poorer than them.
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Postby Risottia » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:54 pm

Tangatarehua wrote:What you're advocating for exists. It's called Social Democracy and it's pretty much the default in every western country except for the US.

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Postby Neocomplexultra » Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:57 am

thank you for bolding the nucleus of your text, i was definitely not going to read all of that
JasminCorp Colonies wrote:5) Most importantly: Doing the right thing promotes opportunity! If people have access to human needs, they can, and will thrive for the most part. If you're educated, have a roof over your head, food, water, and healthcare, you are 1000x more likely to start a business, invest, buy a new car, or in some other way contribute to and grow a capitalist system.

wrong. i do not value any of you personally, society itself, or a capitalist system

the only reason i engage with these things is to secure education, a roof over my head, food, water, and healthcare (and transportation, security)

the moment i have these things, i will just have as many children as possible - and spend the rest of my life working out, having sex, making music, playing games, reading books, teaching elementary philosophy to people on the internet who will never understand it as a form of sarcastic and pointless self-congratulation, and sleeping

your license to have political opinions has just been revoked; go get some realistic opinions about the nature of individual humans, then come back when you need opinions about systems of humans
Last edited by Neocomplexultra on Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Durius » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:08 am

JasminCorp Colonies wrote:4) Helping the needy doesn't hurt the free market.

Much to the contrary, actually. It's actually a good investment, so if you are not convinced by the morality of helping, then at least consider the utilitarian point of view. Helping people (be it through education, healthcare, welfare, etc.) means that people are more suitable to contribute to the economy helping everyone in the process. And even if you believe that many people won't meaningfully contribute even if they are given help, at least take into account that if people are helped enough to avoid desperation, they are much less likely to engage in criminal activities. It's better for the society and economy to fund welfare programs that prevent crime for happening than let it happen and superinflate the police to fight it.

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Postby Stellar Colonies » Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:33 am

no

We need to find a viable alternative, and then mercifully euthanize capitalism.
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Postby Floofybit » Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:51 am

Surprise! Capitalism has problems.
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:09 am

What sort of seasonings can we apply to this shit sandwich to make it tasty and appealing?
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Soviet Haaregrad
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:10 am

Durius wrote:
JasminCorp Colonies wrote:4) Helping the needy doesn't hurt the free market.

Much to the contrary, actually. It's actually a good investment, so if you are not convinced by the morality of helping, then at least consider the utilitarian point of view. Helping people (be it through education, healthcare, welfare, etc.) means that people are more suitable to contribute to the economy helping everyone in the process. And even if you believe that many people won't meaningfully contribute even if they are given help, at least take into account that if people are helped enough to avoid desperation, they are much less likely to engage in criminal activities. It's better for the society and economy to fund welfare programs that prevent crime for happening than let it happen and superinflate the police to fight it.


On top of that, when you give money to the poorest they tend to spend it, which means it's back circulating in the economy almost immediately.
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Postby Port Caverton » Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:21 am

Durius wrote:
JasminCorp Colonies wrote:4) Helping the needy doesn't hurt the free market.

Much to the contrary, actually. It's actually a good investment, so if you are not convinced by the morality of helping, then at least consider the utilitarian point of view. Helping people (be it through education, healthcare, welfare, etc.) means that people are more suitable to contribute to the economy helping everyone in the process. And even if you believe that many people won't meaningfully contribute even if they are given help, at least take into account that if people are helped enough to avoid desperation, they are much less likely to engage in criminal activities. It's better for the society and economy to fund welfare programs that prevent crime for happening than let it happen and superinflate the police to fight it.

However the welfare state should be different than its current form, have something like the Swiss model in healthcare, charter schools in education and complement this with a Negative Income Tax
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Eternal Algerstonia
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Postby Eternal Algerstonia » Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:36 am

you can fix capitalism by making sure all the capitalists love their country, unlike right now where every capitalist is woke and hates this country and hates american values
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Soviet Haaregrad
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:44 am

Eternal Algerstonia wrote:you can fix capitalism by making sure all the capitalists love their country, unlike right now where every capitalist is woke and hates this country and hates american values


"Woke" meaning they'd rather make extra money by appealing to more customers than embrace the sort of bigotry conservatives peddle.
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Postby Poliski » Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:02 am

Capitalism isn't broken. It was built this way.

The only reason people in Western countries have a good standard of living is because the existence of the USSR caused a sort of standard of living race. Our current standard of living is a new phenomenon that didn't exist until the start of the Cold War. Now since there is nothing threatening capitalism we can see global backtracking. We can see falling standards of living and rights across the board.
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Khardsland
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Postby Khardsland » Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:04 am

Capitalism is the best economic system in the world........if the only other alternative is feudalism. Like feudalism, capitalism too has outlived its usefulness and the only solution is not reformed capitalism but a complete transition to socialism before we inevitably reach communism.
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JasminCorp Colonies
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Postby JasminCorp Colonies » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:01 pm

Communism is not the gradual evolution of a good system. Proof? Communist nations have failed epically in many different proportions. Some cope and say it was actually great, others lie and say 'it wasn't true communism,' but the fact of the matter is Keynesian economics is the main reason for higher standards of living, not the USSR.

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