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The Politics of Nudity

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is it OK to post on NSG while naked?

Yes
15
68%
NEVER, NOT IN 40,000 MILLENIUMS
7
32%
 
Total votes : 22

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Heavenly Assault
Diplomat
 
Posts: 586
Founded: Feb 08, 2023
Ex-Nation

The Politics of Nudity

Postby Heavenly Assault » Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:53 am

This is a serious question: why exactly do we have laws and stigmas against nudity?

I think it's strange that such laws and attitudes exist because our most natural state is in the nude. We are born nude and our bodies are just vehicles and representations of ourselves. Now, I understand why you would want someone to wear clothes in places like a grocery store or restaurant, or work, or school. I don't exactly want someone's nutsack next to the salad bar, either, but what about in other contexts? Why did we ever have the public breastfeeding stigma when such a thing is not only perfectly natural, but optimal for the the health of the baby? Why isn't every beach a nude beach?

It feels weird that we tend to see others' bodies as an offense. I mean, some peoples' bodies are aesthetically offensive, but we can always find something offensive about someone. Like in Victorian England and Islam, women are covered up for the sake of their modesty, but is that just a projection that most men are inherently animalistic baboons incapable of regulating their sexual urges? Or is that an issue of other insecurity on the part of the moderators? What if that indirectly fetishizes women because it sensitizes people to sexuality instead of desensitizing them to the human body? Why do the Japanese blur the sexual organs in pornography when you can clearly discern what is happening?

Where do you think the stigma comes from? Is it psychological, biological and/or evolutionary and what are your opinions on it?
Last edited by Heavenly Assault on Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Libertarian Right
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Founded: Mar 24, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Libertarian Right » Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:54 am

What-...
Nudist alert?
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Major-Tom
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Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Major-Tom » Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:55 am

I'm fairly libertine and live and let live, but I think it's just a very human reaction to want to shy away from nudity. Of course, it's different with the people we love and whatnot, but I don't want to see some saggy-scrote hanging loose while I'm walking to work. It's gross.
Last edited by Major-Tom on Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:06 am

I for one hate tan lines, but that saidYou really don't want to put your bare ass on a subway seat
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Imperatorskiy Rossiya
Secretary
 
Posts: 27
Founded: Apr 27, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperatorskiy Rossiya » Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:20 am

Nudity has a relatively strong tendency to excite the passions of both the seer and the exposer that has been noticed and addressed, to varying degrees and with some climactic input as well, by basically every civilization. For that alone, we can conclude that mass public nudity would likely be contrary to human flourishing.

Furthermore, you speak as though closeness to the State of Nature is an inherent good, as if Rousseau can just be assumed to have unequivocally won the argument on the issue. Your view of bodies as mere vehicles also assumes gnosticism as fact. Most in history would argue that we may not be merely our bodies, but we are at the very least our bodies, and that therefore there is an ordered way and a disordered way to treat our own bodies.

Finally, people have less of a discernable unique identity when naked, compared to when clothed. A leopard skin takes a person from a fleshy water sack to Grug the Destroyer, a tunic of fibers takes Grug the Destroyer and makes him Garakh the Farmer, a dyed toga of fine linen makes Gracchus part of the aristocracy (though he is about to upset many of his own class), and eventually a "Supreme" T-shirt and designer tennis shoes makes Greg an insufferable "influencer."

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Heavenly Assault
Diplomat
 
Posts: 586
Founded: Feb 08, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Heavenly Assault » Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:32 am

Libertarian Right wrote:What-...
Nudist alert?

YES.

Jk, I'm a fairly modest person when it comes to my own nudity.

Anyway, in relation to the topic, I found this interesting:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 180970980/
"One of the most intriguing theories is that the loss of hair on the face and some of the hair around the genitals may have helped with emotional communication."

I wonder if this denotes some kind of vulnerability inherent to nudity, both against the elements and emotions. We basically do need clothes with how we've evolved and if that theory is true, nudity could denote some extreme level of personal sensorial overload. What if one reason people are sensitive to nudity is because it's so much interpersonal data being thrown at the brain? All the replies are pretty interesting so far, btw.
Last edited by Heavenly Assault on Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Black Skull Squad
Secretary
 
Posts: 31
Founded: Feb 26, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Black Skull Squad » Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:36 am

Don't need to be more with the flesh! we now have the Lifeform Upgrade to convert your body in a machine (adverstiment: we don't make charge if you don't survive the operation, contact your medical secure but we don't accept devolutions).

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Techocracy101010
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Posts: 1249
Founded: May 04, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Techocracy101010 » Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:49 am

Heavenly Assault wrote:This is a serious question: why exactly do we have laws and stigmas against nudity?

I think it's strange that such laws and attitudes exist because our most natural state is in the nude. We are born nude and our bodies are just vehicles and representations of ourselves. Now, I understand why you would want someone to wear clothes in places like a grocery store or restaurant, or work, or school. I don't exactly want someone's nutsack next to the salad bar, either, but what about in other contexts? Why did we ever have the public breastfeeding stigma when such a thing is not only perfectly natural, but optimal for the the health of the baby? Why isn't every beach a nude beach?

It feels weird that we tend to see others' bodies as an offense. I mean, some peoples' bodies are aesthetically offensive, but we can always find something offensive about someone. Like in Victorian England and Islam, women are covered up for the sake of their modesty, but is that just a projection that most men are inherently animalistic baboons incapable of regulating their sexual urges? Or is that an issue of other insecurity on the part of the moderators? What if that indirectly fetishizes women because it sensitizes people to sexuality instead of desensitizing them to the human body? Why do the Japanese blur the sexual organs in pornography when you can clearly discern what is happening?

Where do you think the stigma comes from? Is it psychological, biological and/or evolutionary and what are your opinions on it?


Because i don't need anyone to see me pitching a boner at the beach and i don't need to see anyone else's boner . I do not need to see tits and ass in public . Also it would encourage degenerate behavior as it gives the freaks an excuse to do weird shit publicly . Also to your exposing children to this .

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Ryemarch
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 363
Founded: Apr 19, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Ryemarch » Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:57 am

Heavenly Assault wrote:I think it's strange that such laws and attitudes exist because our most natural state is in the nude.

Bold move to make an appeal to nature via a series of rocks (some of which are in space) and chained electricity.

Heavenly Assault wrote:Where do you think the stigma comes from? Is it psychological, biological and/or evolutionary and what are your opinions on it?

Nudity being stigmatized and legislated against I think is down to cultural prudishness. Nudity not being the norm in less prudish cultures I think is down to practicality (I like when insects can't get at my reproductive organs) and self/cultural expression.
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Heavenly Assault
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Posts: 586
Founded: Feb 08, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Heavenly Assault » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:02 am

Here's more food for thought:
If society was subjected to interpersonal nudity more often on a regular basis (say in parks and beaches) do you think most people would still be as sensitive? What if we had less censorship and saw nudity in the media more often?

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Neonian Technocracy
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Posts: 272
Founded: Nov 08, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Neonian Technocracy » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:05 am

Heavenly Assault wrote:Here's more food for thought:
If society was subjected to interpersonal nudity more often on a regular basis (say in parks and beaches) do you think most people would still be as sensitive? What if we had less censorship and saw nudity in the media more often?

1. yes.
2. NEVER, NOT IN 40,000 MILLENIUMS.
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Stellar Colonies
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Posts: 5226
Founded: Mar 27, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Stellar Colonies » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:07 am

I don't like nudity...in fact I would be more comfortable with bare-chested men being as taboo as bare-chested women.

But although my personal preferences are too authoritarian to be reasonable as social policy, full-blown nudity in most public settings is unhygienic and shouldn't be tolerated.
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:13 am

I would guess that how nudity taboos develop in a society is that as wearing clothes becomes ubiquitous for its practical function, people would only be naked in private situations, and so the two become linked. And from there we can build all kinds of social mores around how much clothing ought to be worn in various situations.
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Page
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Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:33 am

If public nudity was legal I wouldn't be inclined to go grocery shopping naked but I definitely would skip the hassle of a swimsuit at the beach, just strip off my clothes and go swimming and put my clothes back on. Same for like pools and hot tubs at hotels.

Anyway it'd be nice if we could all just get the fuck over it but since that's not happening any time soon, we could at least start with ending the double standard with nipples on the basis of sex.
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:41 am

Page wrote:If public nudity was legal I wouldn't be inclined to go grocery shopping naked but I definitely would skip the hassle of a swimsuit at the beach, just strip off my clothes and go swimming and put my clothes back on. Same for like pools and hot tubs at hotels.

Anyway it'd be nice if we could all just get the fuck over it but since that's not happening any time soon, we could at least start with ending the double standard with nipples on the basis of sex.

Mixing naked people and foodstuffs seems like a bad idea.
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Ryemarch
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Posts: 363
Founded: Apr 19, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Ryemarch » Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:09 am

Heavenly Assault wrote:Here's more food for thought:
If society was subjected to interpersonal nudity more often on a regular basis (say in parks and beaches) do you think most people would still be as sensitive? What if we had less censorship and saw nudity in the media more often?

Yes and yes. However the US is a major media producer and still bears a deep streak of Puritanism, so don't hold your breath.

Ifreann wrote:I would guess that how nudity taboos develop in a society is that as wearing clothes becomes ubiquitous for its practical function, people would only be naked in private situations, and so the two become linked. And from there we can build all kinds of social mores around how much clothing ought to be worn in various situations.

This is a solid take, and likely how it all got started.

Page wrote:[W]e could at least start with ending the double standard with nipples on the basis of sex.

Hear, hear! Either cover them all or set them all free!

Ifreann wrote:Mixing naked people and foodstuffs seems like a bad idea.

Depends on the foodstuff. I do not recommend popsicles.
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~
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~
(NS stats are canon unless otherwise noted.)

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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:52 pm

Ryemarch wrote:
Heavenly Assault wrote:Here's more food for thought:
If society was subjected to interpersonal nudity more often on a regular basis (say in parks and beaches) do you think most people would still be as sensitive? What if we had less censorship and saw nudity in the media more often?

Yes and yes. However the US is a major media producer and still bears a deep streak of Puritanism, so don't hold your breath.

Ifreann wrote:I would guess that how nudity taboos develop in a society is that as wearing clothes becomes ubiquitous for its practical function, people would only be naked in private situations, and so the two become linked. And from there we can build all kinds of social mores around how much clothing ought to be worn in various situations.

This is a solid take, and likely how it all got started.

Page wrote:[W]e could at least start with ending the double standard with nipples on the basis of sex.

Hear, hear! Either cover them all or set them all free!

Ifreann wrote:Mixing naked people and foodstuffs seems like a bad idea.

Depends on the foodstuff. I do not recommend popsicles.

Or frying bacon
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 



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Bear Stearns
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Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalizt

Postby Bear Stearns » Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:20 pm

Nudity should only be allowed for the pretty people of the upper classes.
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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:21 pm

Top nudity, no idea. Bottom nudity, health reasons.
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Vikanias
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Vikanias » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:23 pm

Tan lines suck ass, but I don’t think it’s exactly good for you to have your bare feet and ass on the Metro or other public transport
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M E N
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Founded: Sep 20, 2021
Capitalizt

Postby M E N » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:31 pm

Page wrote:If public nudity was legal I wouldn't be inclined to go grocery shopping naked but I definitely would skip the hassle of a swimsuit at the beach, just strip off my clothes and go swimming and put my clothes back on. Same for like pools and hot tubs at hotels.

Anyway it'd be nice if we could all just get the fuck over it but since that's not happening any time soon, we could at least start with ending the double standard with nipples on the basis of sex.


Naked bathing - and naked sports - have been the rule for almost all of humanity. The current, relatively prudish, rules stem from the 19th century, from a need to distinguish one´s status through clothes, and from various peripheral considerations (such as: I don´t want my son/daughter/wife to be anyone´s object of desire).

There is no objective reason we can´t return to the way things were before the Victorian pearl-clutching at the sight of an exposed ankle.

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Neutraligon
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Posts: 41095
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:39 pm

Top nudity no issue. Bottom nudity, health reasons. I have no desire to deal with people who cannot wipe… or women’s periods all over the seat.
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EuroStralia
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Posts: 755
Founded: Feb 28, 2023
Anarchy

Postby EuroStralia » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:43 pm

Nudity should be banned for health and for human decency.

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Libertarian Right
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Founded: Mar 24, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Libertarian Right » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:43 pm

This is my point.
I would not like my child seeing a dangling scrotum while on the way to get ice cream.
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Rary
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Posts: 859
Founded: Dec 18, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rary » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:47 pm

All nudity should be banned.
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