[WITHDRAWN] Are Babies Made in Factories?

[Rudastan]

Hello! This is my first issue, will be submitting preferably for the contest once it's ready. Thoughts?

Are Babies Made in Factories?

[VALIDITY] Capitalism, high wealth gap, no vat-produced infants

[DESC] A recent inspection of a local hospital revealed a scheme, where surrogate mothers struggling to make ends meet were paid to deliver babies, which were then sold to ‘customers’. There are no laws regarding surrogacy in @@NAME@@, and a debate has been called to discuss what next.

[OPTION 1] “Please, @@LEADER@@, this is the only way some of us get to see money!” shouts @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, a pregnant surrogate mother, who’s ravenously eating a yogurt. “It’s hard to gain proper employment in this country, but with commercial surrogacy, we finally get a chance to contribute to society! We give infertile couples their own biological baby, and then we get paid afterwards! Everyone benefits! ”

[RESULT] you can put a price tag on life

[OPTION 2] “Nonsense!” interrupts @@RANDOMFEMALENAME_1@@ through a megaphone, a more conservative women’s rights activist, who’s been listening from an open window. “Those women carry children, which if I may add, are not even their own, and then sold afterwards? And what then, will they spew out babies like no tomorrow just for a bunch of coin? They will be forced to give children, whether they like it or not! Women are not factories, this cannot be allowed!”

[RESULT] the womb factory has recently closed down

[OPTION 3] “Neither of you are right.” butts in a local charity organizer @@RANDOMNAME@@, as @@HE@@ takes the megaphone from @@RANDOMFEMALENAME_1@@’s hands “ @@RANDOMFEMALEFIRSTNAME_1@@ is ultimately right, surrogate mothers will eventually become exploited, so how about a compromise? No one has ever become poor from giving. Surrogacy should be made for free. Infertile couples still get to have their children, and for free of charge! Perhaps the close ones of the couples can do it for them, all in the name of charity!”

[RESULT] surrogate mothers get paid with gratitude instead of money

[OPTION 4] “Are you all out of your mind?.” interjects your tired secretary, who’s been quietly listening from the back of the room. “I mean, using women’s bodies as factories? I don’t see why we should bother with any of this. All this pressure on women to give babies is tiring. I think we should just sterilize everyone, and make babies in actual factories using, what do they call it? Vats? Those infertile couples can have the child of their dreams and surrogate mothers, if you can even call them that at that point, won’t have to bother. It will make everyone’s lives easier.”

[RESULT] infertile couples are blamed for sterilization of the population

Third draft:

Are Babies Made in Factories?

[VALIDITY] Capitalism, high wealth gap, no vat-produced infants

[DESC] A recent inspection of a local hospital revealed a scheme, where surrogate mothers struggling to make ends meet were paid to deliver babies, which were then sold to ‘customers’. There are no laws regarding surrogacy in @@NAME@@, and a debate has been called to discuss what next.

[OPTION 1] “Please, @@LEADER@@, this is the only way some of us get to see money!” shouts @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, a pregnant surrogate mother, who’s ravenously eating a yogurt. “You must allow commercial surrogacy! Unable couples get to have their babies and we get to have our money! Sure, it might get exploited, but better to be exploited and see food on the table than not!”

[RESULT] you can put a price tag on life

[OPTION 2] “Can’t you see that she’s being coerced?” asks detective @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, who is known to be religious. “She is being used, forced to carry a baby that is not even hers! You can’t allow this, it’s not natural! If they want a baby so much, why not adoption? A better alternative than forcefully using mothers to give them children.”

[RESULT] mothers can occasionally be seen begging outside adoption centers

[OPTION 3] “Neither of you are right.” interrupts a local charity organizer @@RANDOMNAME@@, who gave you a piece of paper and is asking you to sign it. “How about a compromise? No one has ever become poor from giving. Adoption can be very expensive, which is why surrogacy should be for free. Couples unable to have a child should get them. And those poor mothers can be proud, as they gave life a new chance!”

[RESULT] poor surrogate mothers get paid with gratitude

[OPTION 4] “This ‘scheme’ made me realize something.” interjects a strangely looking scientist. “Infertile couples can’t have children, so they hire surrogate mothers to do it for them. I have a better solution. Sterilize the population. Yes, I know, sounds crazy. Instead of using surrogacy, we use vats. We can obtain genetic information from healthy mothers and use it to grow babies for barren couples. Mothers will no longer have to bother with pregnancy, and the infertile get to have the child of their dreams. Perfect, really.”

[RESULT] gay couples are blamed for sterilization of the population

Second draft:

Are Babies Made in Factories?

[VALIDITY] Capitalism, high wealth gap

[DESC] The police have recently discovered a scheme in @@CAPITAL@@, involving a local hospital selling babies to ‘customers’ using surrogate mothers struggling to make ends meet. There are no laws regarding surrogacy in @@NAME@@, and a debate has been called to discuss what next.

[OPTION 1] “Please, @@LEADER@@, this is the only way some of us get to see money!” shouts @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, a pregnant surrogate mother, who’s ravenously eating a yogurt. “You must allow commercial surrogacy! Unable couples get to have their babies and we get to have our money! Sure, it might get exploited, but better to be exploited and see food on the table than not!”

[RESULT] you can put a price tag on life

[OPTION 2] “Can’t you see that she’s being coerced?” asks detective @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, who is known to be religious. “She is being used, forced to carry a baby that is not even hers! You can’t allow this, it’s not natural! If they want a baby so much, why not adoption? A better alternative than forcefully using mothers to give them children.”

[RESULT] mothers gather outside adoption centers

[OPTION 3] “Neither of you are right.” interrupts a local charity organizer @@RANDOMNAME@@, who gave you a piece of paper and is asking you to sign it. “How about a compromise? No one has ever become poor from giving. Adoption can be very expensive, which is why surrogacy should be for free. Couples unable to have a child should get them. And those poor mothers can be proud, as they gave life a new chance!”

[RESULT] surrogate mothers are rewarded by gratitude

First draft:

Are Babies Made in Factories?

[VALIDITY] Must have capitalism

[DESC] A scheme has been uncovered by police detectives in @@CAPITAL@@ recently, concerning a private clinic in Bigtopia using @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ hospitals to "sell" babies to those unable to have children, such as gay couples, using surrogate mothers. Because @@NAME@@ doesn't regulate nor prohibit surrogacy, it is a perfect place for such operations.

[OPTION 1] "Those foreigners think they can sell our children to others now, do they?" remarks @@RANDOMNAME@@, who is a detective on the case. "Fools will do anything for money. Especially using the grey area of the law. You can't put a price tag on life. Prohibit surrogacy, maybe even lower our healthcare fund so this will never happen again."

[RESULT] infertile couples resort to playing with baby dolls

[OPTION 2] "This is absurd!" yells Dr. @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, who is employed in one of the hospitals. "How were we supposed to know they were selling the little ones? Do you seriously think we would allow such things? Surrogacy shouldn't be banned, but we must punish anyone who thinks they can use their wallets on life!"

[RESULT] gay couples who are seen with babies in their arms are frowned upon

[OPTION 3] "I think you all aren't seeing the bigger picture here." interrupts @@RANDOMNAME_1@@, the CEO of DollsPlay, while @@HE_1@@'s looking at pictures of babies. "This presents a big business opportunity. Do you know how much people are willing to pay for babies? I mean sure, it's unethical, but imagine the profit! Parents can have their children, and we get to have our money! It's a win-win situation."

[RESULT] you can now put a price on a life

[Ko-oren]

Welcome! It reads pretty well. Some things:
- Please remove the line breaks in the description and the options.
- I read the description a few times and I'm not 100% sure about what's exactly going on. There are Bigtopian mothers giving birth to babies in hospitals in @@NAME@@, and then the mothers sell the babies to (a private clinic in) Bigtopia, and this was uncovered by @@CAPITAL@@ police? But as the second line says, there are no rules surrounding surrogacy, so this practice isn't illegal, right? What caused police to start an investigation? Wouldn't it look just like Bigtopian mothers giving birth and returning home with the baby?
- Option 1: I doubt a detective would outright suggest to lower the healthcare fund - I think working with 'prohibit surrogacy' and expanding on that works fine.
- Option 2: Dr. @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@ would probably work best, as now it will say 'Dr. [first name]'.
- Option 2: Given the transaction takes place in Bigtopia, this is outside the jurisdiction of @@NAME@@, right?

[Rudastan]

Welcome! It reads pretty well. Some things:
- Please remove the line breaks in the description and the options.
- I read the description a few times and I'm not 100% sure about what's exactly going on. There are Bigtopian mothers giving birth to babies in hospitals in @@NAME@@, and then the mothers sell the babies to (a private clinic in) Bigtopia, and this was uncovered by @@CAPITAL@@ police? But as the second line says, there are no rules surrounding surrogacy, so this practice isn't illegal, right? What caused police to start an investigation? Wouldn't it look just like Bigtopian mothers giving birth and returning home with the baby?
- Option 1: I doubt a detective would outright suggest to lower the healthcare fund - I think working with 'prohibit surrogacy' and expanding on that works fine.
- Option 2: Dr. @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@ would probably work best, as now it will say 'Dr. [first name]'.
- Option 2: Given the transaction takes place in Bigtopia, this is outside the jurisdiction of @@NAME@@, right?

Thanks for the feedback! It was quite late when I was writing this, so a lot of things aren't really clear. I will make adjustments.

[Kaschovia]

Are Babies Made in Factories?

[VALIDITY] Must have capitalism

[DESC] A scheme has been uncovered by police detectives in @@CAPITAL@@ recently, concerning a private clinic in Bigtopia using @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ hospitals to "sell" babies to those unable to have children, such as gay couples, using surrogate mothers. Because @@NAME@@ doesn't regulate nor prohibit surrogacy, it is a perfect place for such operations.

[OPTION 1] "Those foreigners think they can sell our children to others now, do they?" remarks @@RANDOMNAME@@, who is a detective on the case. "Fools will do anything for money. Especially using the grey area of the law. You can't put a price tag on life. Prohibit surrogacy, maybe even lower our healthcare fund so this will never happen again."

[RESULT] infertile couples resort to playing with baby dolls

[OPTION 2] "This is absurd!" yells Dr. @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, who is employed in one of the hospitals. "How were we supposed to know they were selling the little ones? Do you seriously think we would allow such things? Surrogacy shouldn't be banned, but we must punish anyone who thinks they can use their wallets on life!"

[RESULT] gay couples who are seen with babies in their arms are frowned upon

[OPTION 3] "I think you all aren't seeing the bigger picture here." interrupts @@RANDOMNAME_1@@, the CEO of DollsPlay, while @@HE_1@@'s looking at pictures of babies. "This presents a big business opportunity. Do you know how much people are willing to pay for babies? I mean sure, it's unethical, but imagine the profit! Parents can have their children, and we get to have our money! It's a win-win situation."

[RESULT] you can now put a price on a life

Copy and paste this into your draft. This is the exact same as yours but without the random line breaks in the options, and I have formatted the effect lines properly.

[Rudastan]

I edited the issue, well, pretty much changed it entirely. Here's the comparison, hope it's better.
First draft:

Are Babies Made in Factories?

[VALIDITY] Must have capitalism

[DESC] A scheme has been uncovered by police detectives in @@CAPITAL@@ recently, concerning a private clinic in Bigtopia using @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ hospitals to "sell" babies to those unable to have children, such as gay couples, using surrogate mothers. Because @@NAME@@ doesn't regulate nor prohibit surrogacy, it is a perfect place for such operations.

[OPTION 1] "Those foreigners think they can sell our children to others now, do they?" remarks @@RANDOMNAME@@, who is a detective on the case. "Fools will do anything for money. Especially using the grey area of the law. You can't put a price tag on life. Prohibit surrogacy, maybe even lower our healthcare fund so this will never happen again."

[RESULT] infertile couples resort to playing with baby dolls

[OPTION 2] "This is absurd!" yells Dr. @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, who is employed in one of the hospitals. "How were we supposed to know they were selling the little ones? Do you seriously think we would allow such things? Surrogacy shouldn't be banned, but we must punish anyone who thinks they can use their wallets on life!"

[RESULT] gay couples who are seen with babies in their arms are frowned upon

[OPTION 3] "I think you all aren't seeing the bigger picture here." interrupts @@RANDOMNAME_1@@, the CEO of DollsPlay, while @@HE_1@@'s looking at pictures of babies. "This presents a big business opportunity. Do you know how much people are willing to pay for babies? I mean sure, it's unethical, but imagine the profit! Parents can have their children, and we get to have our money! It's a win-win situation."

[RESULT] you can now put a price on a life

Second draft:

Are Babies Made in Factories?

[VALIDITY] Capitalism, high wealth gap

[DESC] The police have recently discovered a scheme in @@CAPITAL@@, involving a local hospital selling babies to ‘customers’ using surrogate mothers struggling to make ends meet. There are no laws regarding surrogacy in @@NAME@@, and a debate has been called to discuss what next.

[OPTION 1] “Please, @@LEADER@@, this is the only way some of us get to see money!” shouts @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, a pregnant surrogate mother, who’s ravenously eating a yogurt. “You must allow commercial surrogacy! Unable couples get to have their babies and we get to have our money! Sure, it might get exploited, but better to be exploited and see food on the table than not!”

[RESULT] you can put a price tag on life

[OPTION 2] “Can’t you see that she’s being coerced?” asks detective @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, who is known to be religious. “She is being used, forced to carry a baby that is not even hers! You can’t allow this, it’s not natural! If they want a baby so much, why not adoption? A better alternative than forcefully using mothers to give them children.”

[RESULT] mothers gather outside adoption centers

[OPTION 3] “Neither of you are right.” interrupts a local charity organizer @@RANDOMNAME@@, who gave you a piece of paper and is asking you to sign it. “How about a compromise? No one has ever become poor from giving. Adoption can be very expensive, which is why surrogacy should be for free. Couples unable to have a child should get them. And those poor mothers can be proud, as they gave life a new chance!”

[RESULT] surrogate mothers are rewarded by gratitude

[Tinhampton]

The title of your issue made me think this was yet another issue about vat-grown infants.

Surrogacy can exist in nations without a large wealth gap.

[Rudastan]

The title of your issue made me think this was yet another issue about vat-grown infants.

True, might change it, but I don't have any better ideas.

Surrogacy can exist in nations without a large wealth gap.

That's also true, but this issue is mainly about poor women using surrogacy as a source of income.

[Southland]

Option 2 could use a more creative result, and you should include an option to grow babies in VATs (unapplicable to nations that have that of course). You can address the poverty aspect by saying the poor can provide genetic information (willingly or otherwise) to make it happen.

[Ko-oren]

In my opinion, if an issue is not about vats, no need to tack it on if it's not part of the plan. Lots of issues work really well by staying close to the original topic.

Not that I always stick to my own advice in my own drafts, but alright

[Rudastan]

I made some edits, followed Southland's advice. I'm quite happy with how it turned out, but as always, improvements can be made. Thoughts?

[Electrum]

This is a really complex issue so you need to give some thought on these options. Options 1 and 2 are far too short.

Option 1 - 'Unable couples'... do you mean 'infertile couples'? 'Sure, it might get exploited' - A surrogate activist would not point out that women will get exploited. Save it for the second option. You should rewrite it so that it's more about giving unskilled women the opportunity to contribute to society/earn a living that they might not otherwise want/that it's a free world, etc. You can also expand on the benefits for the infertile couple too. It's essentially a 'win-win' from the perspective of the advocate.

Option 2 - Please just expand more on 'she’s being coerced'. Exploitation is a serious issue, and you don't have to be religious to point this one out. You're talking about seriously vulnerable people using their bodies because they have no other choice to make money. You're essentially commodifying wombs.

Option 3 - Yes this is a compromise (that surrogacy should be done but without money) but if it's done without money, 'poor mothers' won't be the ones doing the surrogacy. It would be the friends and family of the couple.

[Australian rePublic]

Option 2- no one's forcedly doing anything

Also, os there a reason why surregocy is more popular than adoption?

[Rudastan]

4th draft is up, thanks for the feedback everyone!

[Rudastan]

Feedback would be appreciated.

/bump

[Verdant Haven]

This is a tough one. Like Electrum said – it's a really complex issue.

- Issue #785 "Born to Be My Baby" is about surrogacy, and the potential for a custody dispute arising from the surrogate changing her mind after giving birth (with the added complication of the surrogate providing the ovum). As such, we should definitely be wary of saying that there are "no laws" about surrogacy.

- Exactly what is happening here feels like it shifts somewhat from option to option, or at least how it's being described does. The Description at the beginning seems to imply that the hospital is nefariously paying surrogates, and then is selling babies to mysterious customers who had nothing to do with the pregnancy. Option 2 doubles down on this, with concerns that surrogates will be forced against their wills to go through repeated pregnancies for these unknowns. Option 1 suggests something closer to real-world "normal" where the surrogate is carrying the child for a specific known couple (who is presumably paying them), with option 3 working from that as the assumed premise as well.

- I think resolving the above will go a long way to understanding exactly what the dilemma is. Unless we are dealing with an actually selling babies to strangers or compelling unwilling pregnancies, I don't know that there's enough here yet to support an issue. Simply not having laws about something isn't particularly important, unless that something actually perceived to be causing a problem.

- I feel like Option 4 is encountering a challenge that is felt throughout some parts of this – it is making claims to act on behalf of a class of people, but the only representative of that class whom we meet (the surrogate mother speaking in Option 1) is happy and arguing in favor of what she is doing. As a result, I keep coming back to the same thing I was getting at in the previous bullet point... "what's the problem?"

[Rudastan]

- Issue #785 "Born to Be My Baby" is about surrogacy, and the potential for a custody dispute arising from the surrogate changing her mind after giving birth (with the added complication of the surrogate providing the ovum). As such, we should definitely be wary of saying that there are "no laws" about surrogacy.

I wasn't aware that there already was an issue about surrogacy. This complicates matters, but I can work around it.

- Exactly what is happening here feels like it shifts somewhat from option to option, or at least how it's being described does. The Description at the beginning seems to imply that the hospital is nefariously paying surrogates, and then is selling babies to mysterious customers who had nothing to do with the pregnancy. Option 2 doubles down on this, with concerns that surrogates will be forced against their wills to go through repeated pregnancies for these unknowns. Option 1 suggests something closer to real-world "normal" where the surrogate is carrying the child for a specific known couple (who is presumably paying them), with option 3 working from that as the assumed premise as well.

True. Like I said above, I wasn't aware of the already existing issue about surrogacy, and so I thought that I would make it so the local hospital's scheme brought light to the missing laws about surrogacy in @@NAME@@, and what to do about it.

- I think resolving the above will go a long way to understanding exactly what the dilemma is. Unless we are dealing with an actually selling babies to strangers or compelling unwilling pregnancies, I don't know that there's enough here yet to support an issue. Simply not having laws about something isn't particularly important, unless that something actually perceived to be causing a problem.

You've given me a few ideas on how to resolve this. Unfortunately, it will probably involve rewriting the entire issue, but that's something I'm willing to go for. I wonder though, would themes such as child harvesting or child trafficking be 'acceptable' for NS?

[Verdant Haven]

You've given me a few ideas on how to resolve this. Unfortunately, it will probably involve rewriting the entire issue, but that's something I'm willing to go for. I wonder though, would themes such as child harvesting or child trafficking be 'acceptable' for NS?

We do have existing policies for things like slavery, cannibalism, and human sacrifice, as well as growing children in vats and/or leaving them in the wilderness to fend for themselves, so we are open to well-written issues on difficult themes such as these. The use of children definitely makes for a touchy topic, but so long as the issue is written with sufficient sensitivity, I think it's doable. The only thing we basically won't touch is anything related to sexual abuse or exploitation of children - that isn't a topic we feel is suitable to the game.