Revisiting Interesting Incel Perspectives.

[Kenowa]

Despite the incel community being rather toxic due to it's moral semi-anarchistic attitude (you literally could just say anything there, except for displaying sympathy for women), it presented us with several interesting idea combinations, theories and concepts that are worth exploring a bit deeper than just "haha ugly man angry". Some of such concepts are:

- Biological Essentialism:
The belief that biological instincts have the upper hand in choice making. I personally disagree, as people rebel against states and commit s**cide all of the time, defying the prime biological motivator of not dying. However it is clear that the point that the community tries to make about it, in that activism that tries to defy natural instincts permanently is useless, is kind of correct. We still need to fight for democracy, we still need to fight against greed, even hundreds of years after the french revolution.

The incels point out that if you are ugly or submissive women are not going to feel attracted to you, which is true, but it is not limited to that and I believe it's worth expanding on when contrasted to the other incel ideas. They focus only on gender essentialism and end up making this just a point about fatalism, which is where ideologies go to die. However they tend to take the route of just saying "it's not worth it to take action" instead of the opposite "we must take action, but we must remember that our fight will never end" posture.

This likely played a great role in killing the incel community as most incels eventually became redpillers again or simply stopped caring about the issue. And honestly good for them, the blackpill needed a reset after all of that ultrahedonistic egoism it ended up becoming.

- Emasculation (Not Really):
The incels took the feminization of men quite literally, as they seem to think it's a biological thing (?). It is true that feminists are mostly women that dislike masculine men, at least in theory. Yet the women only focus on the negative part of masculinity, failing to see the real fact that gender roles are just forced behaviours one has to adopt just because of their gender, not inherently good or bad. For example, men are supposed to be brave, but also self-centered. Women are meant to be polite, but also lowkey narcissistic.

I fully agree with the incels in that women should play NO role in defining what men are meant to be, as being pressured to not be certain thing is not destroying gender roles, just making new ones. This is why many men think that feminism is hurting men instead of pushing up women. The incels kinda made a mess of themselves with this one as it got polluted by conspiracy theories about chemicals.

- Online Dating:
This is the most interesting and controversial theory. It sustains that, as online dating gets more and more common, attractive people will be the online ones that can form a relationship. The theory suggests that the very nature of online dating, being fully dependant on physical attraction until then passing a second filter of actually being a good person which is compatible with the other.

Incels blame mostly women for this and while they are right that women get the least worse outcome due to they being in higher demand than men are, it is still hurtful for them as not only they are getting objetified but also falling victim to their own high standars.

Some believe that, due to the enviroment, women will have their sex drive artificially raised and men will have it artificially lowered thus evening the charts. This can be seen in the rise of NoFap and MGTOW communities in the male population, but lacks proof in the female side.

- Manosphere vs Modern Feminism
In retrospective, the manosphere and modern feminism are not really enemies because they are polar opposites but rather because they share the same motivation. To write a fictional rivalry you have to make the characters be alike yet in conflicting positions, which is why Joker vs Batman, Raiden vs Sam, Lex Lutor vs Superman, etc feel so organic as far as their universe goes. If Joker had his parents killed in front of him, he would be batman. If Raiden fully gave in to Jack The Ripper, he would be Sam. If Superman grew powerless in the slums, he would be Luthor.

You grab a incel, make him be raised as a female, and you end up with a feminist. You grab a feminist, make her be raised as a male, and you end up with an incel. You can see this in the small things, such as both movements being so convoluted regarding ideas that nobody agrees on basically anything anymore.

In the end, both modern feminism and the manosphere share a common root and that is the narcissistic, egocentric mindsets that are needed in order to not get walked over. We live in a world of black and white, you are either the worst evil imaginable or you are a bread of God, no inbetween. The issue about this way of thinking is that people are neither evil or good, they are people. We have morals, and we sometimes follow them and sometimes we don't.

It is the sense of moral superiority, as twisted as it seems for those at the end of either side, that unites them. Once they labeled each other as evil they locked themselves into an eternal fight that will only be won once either side ceases to be relevant, as they no longer listen to each other and are in an arms race trying to recruit as many people as possible into their side to outnumber the other.

Once you label someone as evil you refuse to understand the causes that led to them taking actions that are hateful, thus risking falling into the exact same trap. A person with peace has no enemies, they understand why the actions of their oppositor are taken and try to work a solution with them based on those. A person full of hatred as many enemies, as they only see their side of the coin and fail to understand the peaceful solution that might exist.

[Floofybit]

Online dating is a thing I've never been on boat with. And there is no problem, and should be no problem, if a man is a little effeminate.

[Kenowa]

Online dating is a thing I've never been on boat with. And there is no problem, and should be no problem, if a man is a little effeminate.

I fully agree with that. The very concept of something being effeminate sounds kind of wrong to me. You have personality traits, which should not be something to be coinsidered neither manly or womanly. This is where I disagree with feminists, as despite them wanting to eliminate gender norms they shine a bad light on those that happen to follow them.

[Nantoraka]

Would be nice to see incel refer to actual incels now and not be a watered down insult overused by Redditors who had their feathers ruffled.

[Neonian Technocracy]

I don't understand certain topics, the only one I could understand was the thing of the Biological existencialism, THE LIFEFORM UPDATE TO MACHINES WILL FIX THAT, BIOLOGICAL EMOTIONS WILL BE SUPRESS AND BASIC INSTICTS WILL DISSAPEAR.

[Equai]

Incels are nothing but misogynistic and bigoted entitled men. There is nothing "interesting" about their perspective and all the shit they spew is just their attempt to control women, their bodies and their choices. No one even slightly normal would support them.

[Neonian Technocracy]

Incels are nothing but misogynistic and bigoted entitled men. There is nothing "interesting" about their perspective and all the shit they spew is just their attempt to control women, their bodies and their choices. No one even slightly normal would support them.

If all of us were machines non of this discutions will be relevant!

[Kenowa]

Would be nice to see incel refer to actual incels now and not be a watered down insult overused by Redditors who had their feathers ruffled.

I actually used to be one, but I eventually decided to leave as the community had become a mess. They dwelled on the negatives but did not take any action, and due to it's supports towards free speech it ended up being filled with nazis and conspiracy theorists that were not even incel themselves. I believe most surviving incels jumped into the Sigma Male community instead, and they are doing pretty well there so far when compared to the darker times.

Personally, I still sorta use the term on myself sometimes but I preffer to stay away from the remaining part of the community as they are batshit insane, or trolling. Likely trolling.

[Floofybit]

Incels are nothing but misogynistic and bigoted entitled men. There is nothing "interesting" about their perspective and all the shit they spew is just their attempt to control women, their bodies and their choices. No one even slightly normal would support them.

If all of us were machines non of this discutions will be relevant!

If all of us were machines, there would be no point in life

[Soviet Haaregrad]

Incel perspectives are 'interesting' in the same way the unabomber's manifesto is interesting. They give insight into what the mentally deranged think, but that doesn't mean they have any validity in the real world.

[Nantoraka]

Incels are nothing but misogynistic and bigoted entitled men. There is nothing "interesting" about their perspective and all the shit they spew is just their attempt to control women, their bodies and their choices. No one even slightly normal would support them.

If all of us were machines non of this discutions will be relevant!

Stop trying to sell us out to the machines.

[Kenowa]

Incels are nothing but misogynistic and bigoted entitled men. There is nothing "interesting" about their perspective and all the shit they spew is just their attempt to control women, their bodies and their choices. No one even slightly normal would support them.

... Did you fully read the post?

Incels are misogynistic, arguably bigoted, and probably entitled. The thing is that they do having positive qualities that get ignored by the fact they are in a group opposite to yours, and that just calling someone bad and anormal ignores the rule of everything having a motive. Why are incels is a difficult question, that still needs some research done. But their viewpoints are worth investigating.

[Kenowa]

Incel perspectives are 'interesting' in the same way the unabomber's manifesto is interesting. They give insight into what the mentally deranged think, but that doesn't mean they have any validity in the real world.

I agree. However, it's relevant to think about the way they think, and maybe then you can actually understand how they work.

[Juansonia]

I am confused as to how the term "incel" has been so thuroughly been disconnected from its etymology that it's just another word for "neo-misogynist".

The term "incel" was first used self-descriptively by a woman, and it simply refered to those who, due to involuntary factors (getting turned down, lack of opportunity, etc.) ended up celibate.

Now, it's a term used for "woman-hater", and it's often used derogatorily for the most batshit insane reasons possible. Hell, at least 3 men got called incels because they turned down a woman's advances.

I'm guessing that, since the term was first coined, the spaces which used that term became more male-focused, and that got to a point where someone got the idea of blaming women for rejection. Eventually, that idea became dominant and developed into several worldviews (taking inspiration from discredited wolf studies and misunderstood trans allegories), until the idea of a woman being an "incel" was absurd.

"Neo-misogynist" is the word that many in this thread should be using. Don't call a bulldozer a spade.

[Equai]

Incels are nothing but misogynistic and bigoted entitled men. There is nothing "interesting" about their perspective and all the shit they spew is just their attempt to control women, their bodies and their choices. No one even slightly normal would support them.

... Did you fully read the post?

Incels are misogynistic, arguably bigoted, and probably entitled. The thing is that they do having positive qualities that get ignored by the fact they are in a group opposite to yours, and that just calling someone bad and anormal ignores the rule of everything having a motive. Why are incels is a difficult question, that still needs some research done. But their viewpoints are worth investigating.

Some people see positive qualities in Hitler but that doesn't mean that those "viewpoints are worth investigating". I don't have to investigate interesting viewpoints of people whose core ideology is being antifeministist and anti-women because their male privilege is shaking because they realize that they aren't entitled to a woman and can't comprehend what no means no means (and not to mention that those same people want me dead and worse but I can't say it since its PG-13 site).
You said in your post that "women should have no right telling how men should be" but would you agree that the same should be vice versa and that men have no right to say how women should be?

[Stellar Colonies]

I am confused as to how the term "incel" has been so thuroughly been disconnected from its etymology that it's just another word for "neo-misogynist".

The term "incel" was first used self-descriptively by a woman, and it simply refered to those who, due to involuntary factors (getting turned down, lack of opportunity, etc.) ended up celibate.

Now, it's a term used for "woman-hater", and it's often used derogatorily for the most batshit insane reasons possible. Hell, at least 3 men got called incels because they turned down a woman's advances.

I'm guessing that, since the term was first coined, the spaces which used that term became more male-focused, and that got to a point where someone got the idea of blaming women for rejection. Eventually, that idea became dominant and developed into several worldviews (taking inspiration from discredited wolf studies and misunderstood trans allegories), until the idea of a woman being an "incel" was absurd.

"Neo-misogynist" is the word that many in this thread should be using. Don't call a bulldozer a spade.

It appears to have replaced the role of “virgin” as an insult directed at men, although it being borne from individuals self-identifying as such.

Not sure if it counts as a movement, since we do have other examples of labels whom people identifying as such deny as being a distinct movement.

[Nantoraka]

I am confused as to how the term "incel" has been so thuroughly been disconnected from its etymology that it's just another word for "neo-misogynist".

The term "incel" was first used self-descriptively by a woman, and it simply refered to those who, due to involuntary factors (getting turned down, lack of opportunity, etc.) ended up celibate.

Now, it's a term used for "woman-hater", and it's often used derogatorily for the most batshit insane reasons possible. Hell, at least 3 men got called incels because they turned down a woman's advances.

I'm guessing that, since the term was first coined, the spaces which used that term became more male-focused, and that got to a point where someone got the idea of blaming women for rejection. Eventually, that idea became dominant and developed into several worldviews (taking inspiration from discredited wolf studies and misunderstood trans allegories), until the idea of a woman being an "incel" was absurd.

"Neo-misogynist" is the word that many in this thread should be using. Don't call a bulldozer a spade.

It appears to have replaced the role of “virgin” as an insult directed at men.

Exactly. Hell, I've seen men be called incels because they don't want to be in relationships with certain women. Completely lost meaning.

[Soviet Haaregrad]

I am confused as to how the term "incel" has been so thuroughly been disconnected from its etymology that it's just another word for "neo-misogynist".

The term "incel" was first used self-descriptively by a woman, and it simply refered to those who, due to involuntary factors (getting turned down, lack of opportunity, etc.) ended up celibate.

Now, it's a term used for "woman-hater", and it's often used derogatorily for the most batshit insane reasons possible. Hell, at least 3 men got called incels because they turned down a woman's advances.

I'm guessing that, since the term was first coined, the spaces which used that term became more male-focused, and that got to a point where someone got the idea of blaming women for rejection. Eventually, that idea became dominant and developed into several worldviews (taking inspiration from discredited wolf studies and misunderstood trans allegories), until the idea of a woman being an "incel" was absurd.

"Neo-misogynist" is the word that many in this thread should be using. Don't call a bulldozer a spade.

In this case the bulldozers chose to embrace the term spade to the point most shovels might feel uncomfortable identifying as spades.

The bitter misogynists adopted the term for themselves.

[Equai]

TLDR thread: Men trying to present themselves as victims (again)

[Nantoraka]

TLDR thread: Men trying to present themselves as victims (again)

Men can't be victims?

[Soviet Haaregrad]

TLDR thread: Men trying to present themselves as victims (again)

Men can't be victims?

Does not getting laid make one a victim?

[Nantoraka]

Men can't be victims?

Does not getting laid make one a victim?

Of course not. Doesn't change the fact that incel has lost meaning and is now a generic insult towards men.

[Equai]

TLDR thread: Men trying to present themselves as victims (again)

Men can't be victims?

"woman rejected me so I decided to harass every woman in existence because I deserve a woman" its not being a victim. Its just being entitled.

[DutchFormosa]

Wasn't expecting a thread topic like this.

[Stellar Colonies]

TLDR thread: Men trying to present themselves as victims (again)

As much as it would be nice to have a simple model of gender relations, the bourgeoisie/proletariat model just does not accurately map across to the dynamic between men and women.

It’s a little more complicated than “male oppressor”/“female oppressed”, and perceiving our society’s problems through that lens only worsens those problems across the board instead of making progress on solving them for everybody.

Doesn’t make “incels” right, of course…